Player Discussion Jesse Puljujärvi 4th Overall 2016 Draft. Part V: Called Up 11/10/17

[Joey Moss]

Ryan Johansen 4th overall pick 2010
2010-2011 - WHL (19 year old year)
2011-2012 - 21P 67G (20 year old year)
2012-2013 - 12P 40G (21 year old year)
.23PPG in his first two seasons

Jesse Puljujarvi 4th overall pick 2016
2016-2017 - 8P 28G (18 year old year)
2017-2018 - 20P 65G (19 year old year)
.30PPG first two seasons

Johansen went from 5 goals and 12 points to 33 goals and 63 points in a year when he was 22. Puljujarvi just turned 20.

(Patience)

 

[guymez]

Saying a player is bad doesn't mean they will never be good.

It does to a lot of posters on here. Its really odd but true.

 

[Kagomeboy]

It does to a lot of posters on here. Its really odd but true.

Well said poster has not been always positive with certain players.

 

[guymez]

Well said poster has not been always positive with certain players.

I think you missed what I was suggesting.

I was suggesting that @CycloneSweep was right.
A lot of posters on here dont seem to understand that suggesting a player hasn't been good enough doesn't mean he cant and wont be better..

 

[Kagomeboy]

I think you missed what I was suggesting.

I was suggesting that @CycloneSweep was right.
A lot of posters on here dont seem to understand that suggesting a player hasn't been good enough doesn't mean he cant and wont be better..

yeah yeah ,sorry for being defensive I was just going by feelings since Raab called him a bust.

 

[nabob]

Ryan Johansen 4th overall pick 2010
2010-2011 - WHL (19 year old year)
2011-2012 - 21P 67G (20 year old year)
2012-2013 - 12P 40G (21 year old year)
.23PPG in his first two seasons

Jesse Puljujarvi 4th overall pick 2016
2016-2017 - 8P 28G (18 year old year)
2017-2018 - 20P 65G (19 year old year)
.30PPG first two seasons

Johansen went from 5 goals and 12 points to 33 goals and 63 points in a year when he was 22. Puljujarvi just turned 20.

(Patience)

Also Puljujarvi has to relearn pretty much everything he has known about playing hockey and how to play North American hockey.

 

[Hynh]

Ryan Johansen 4th overall pick 2010
2010-2011 - WHL (19 year old year)
2011-2012 - 21P 67G (20 year old year)
2012-2013 - 12P 40G (21 year old year)
.23PPG in his first two seasons

Jesse Puljujarvi 4th overall pick 2016
2016-2017 - 8P 28G (18 year old year)
2017-2018 - 20P 65G (19 year old year)
.30PPG first two seasons

Johansen went from 5 goals and 12 points to 33 goals and 63 points in a year when he was 22. Puljujarvi just turned 20.

(Patience)

Johansen was born in July of 92 so he was 18 in 2010-11.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Ryan Johansen 4th overall pick 2010
2010-2011 - WHL (19 year old year)
2011-2012 - 21P 67G (20 year old year)
2012-2013 - 12P 40G (21 year old year)
.23PPG in his first two seasons

Jesse Puljujarvi 4th overall pick 2016
2016-2017 - 8P 28G (18 year old year)
2017-2018 - 20P 65G (19 year old year)
.30PPG first two seasons

Johansen went from 5 goals and 12 points to 33 goals and 63 points in a year when he was 22. Puljujarvi just turned 20.

(Patience)

I can never understand this nature of argument. Because its inherently fallacious.

False equivalence - Wikipedia

False equivalency does not mean that Puljujarvi trajectory will parallel a known hand picked result. It only means you hand picked the anecdotal result in an attempt to make mediocre returns look like solid stock.
This distortion by comparison can work both ways. People could pick players that didn't find their NHL game and folded, theres countless of those, much more actually, and the only known is what Pulju, himself, has done thus far and that he has not found his NHL game.

The only possible reason for posts like the above is that they offer faith based morale building. A broker of lukewarm and chronically underperforming stock might tell you similar. Just have patience.


Well, we have no other option. Pulju is our best winger prospect and we have no choice. We traded all our worthwhile bonafide wingers. There is no other value able to be obtained other than wait. But this doesn't mean the wait will result in a grand slam.

But just have patience Oilers fans. Have patience with Pulju, with Klef, with Lucic, Chia, Mclellan, Nicholson, Katz, fill your heads with sugar plums and good thoughts and good tidings will come to those who wait. have faith..

 

[Joey Moss]

I can never understand this nature of argument. Because its inherently fallacious.

False equivalence - Wikipedia

False equivalency does not mean that Puljujarvi trajectory will parallel a known hand picked result. It only means you hand picked the anecdotal result in an attempt to make mediocre returns look like solid stock.
This distortion by comparison can work both ways. People could pick players that didn't find their NHL game and folded, theres countless of those, much more actually, and the only known is what Pulju, himself, has done thus far and that he has not found his NHL game.

The only possible reason for posts like the above is that they offer faith based morale building. A broker of lukewarm and chronically underperforming stock might tell you similar. Just have patience.


Well, we have no other option. Pulju is our best winger prospect and we have no choice. We traded all our worthwhile bonafide wingers. There is no other value able to be obtained other than wait. But this doesn't mean the wait will result in a grand slam.

But just have patience Oilers fans. Have patience with Pulju, with Klef, with Lucic, Chia, Mclellan, Nicholson, Katz, fill your heads with sugar plums and good thoughts and good tidings will come to those who wait. have faith..

Alright there, drop the big words and the Wikipedia links.

 

[nabob]

I can never understand this nature of argument. Because its inherently fallacious.

False equivalence - Wikipedia

False equivalency does not mean that Puljujarvi trajectory will parallel a known hand picked result. It only means you hand picked the anecdotal result in an attempt to make mediocre returns look like solid stock.
This distortion by comparison can work both ways. People could pick players that didn't find their NHL game and folded, theres countless of those, much more actually, and the only known is what Pulju, himself, has done thus far and that he has not found his NHL game.

The only possible reason for posts like the above is that they offer faith based morale building. A broker of lukewarm and chronically underperforming stock might tell you similar. Just have patience.


Well, we have no other option. Pulju is our best winger prospect and we have no choice. We traded all our worthwhile bonafide wingers. There is no other value able to be obtained other than wait. But this doesn't mean the wait will result in a grand slam.

But just have patience Oilers fans. Have patience with Pulju, with Klef, with Lucic, Chia, Mclellan, Nicholson, Katz, fill your heads with sugar plums and good thoughts and good tidings will come to those who wait. have faith..

Yeah it's a good thing we had patience for Drai during his rookie season after he struggled worse than Puljujarvi ever has in the NHL. Then after he struggled mightily in the AHL to start his second pro season. Was a smart move to staple him to two Hart candidates since then to help him find his way. A much better move then keeping him on the 4th line playing his off wing would have been.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yeah it's a good thing we had patience for Drai during his rookie season after he struggled worse than Puljujarvi ever has in the NHL. Then after he struggled mightily in the AHL to start his second pro season. Was a smart move to staple him to two Hart candidates since then to help him find his way. A much better move then keeping him on the 4th line playing his off wing would have been.

lmao Drai in 15-16 was arguably one of the best Oilers in camp, looked like a stud of a player, was pissed at being sent down because he and everybody else knew that on the basis of merit had made the team. Soon as he's called up h proceeds to kick it out of the ballpark and has not stopped since.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Alright there, drop the big words and the Wikipedia links.

Typical reply. You post a common logical error, I call it, and you refuse to even think about or comprehend your logical error. In which case you will only continue to have the same faulty thought process in the future.


Hey, anybody can post whatever they want. I'd rather there be some substance to it.

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

I'll never understand why they chose to butcher this kids development.

He was eligible to be sent to the AHL, have his contract slide and be in the right place to develop when it was clear he wasn't NHL ready.

Chiarelli said f*** THAT who needs conventional wisdom. Let's give this kid little ice time at a level he's not ready for and piss away our contractual advantage in the process.

Isn't it weird how a team can have two generational talents but also be saddled with consecutive dumpster fire management teams and miserly owners along the way.

 

[Joey Moss]

Typical reply. You post a common logical error, I call it, and you refuse to even think about or comprehend your logical error. In which case you will only continue to have the same faulty thought process in the future.


Hey, anybody can post whatever they want. I'd rather there be some substance to it.

The irony in this is that the last part of your post is also false equivalence. But hey, you're right.

 

[nabob]

lmao Drai in 15-16 was arguably one of the best Oilers in camp, looked like a stud of a player, was pissed at being sent down because he and everybody else knew that on the basis of merit had made the team. Soon as he's called up h proceeds to kick it out of the ballpark and has not stopped since.

Yep after being stapled to Hall and McDavid. Don't think he would have got their without them carrying him.

 

[Aerrol]

Yamamoto looked very good, just couldn't aim

This sounds suspiciously like all the posts about Puljujarvi that you and others love to tear apart. He 'looked great' and then pouted and had a mediocre D+1 year in the WHL. Wasn't nearly as good as I was hoping at the World Jr's. He's still a great prospect but he hardly blew the doors away this year. Honestly I'd rate Pulju's year last year as similar, and he gets flak all the time for not going above PPG in the AHL, a much harder league than the WHL.

 

[Missoil]

I heard that Pulju has grown about a half inch during the season. I don't know, but if he's still growing , that could explain some things. I was told that he needs to change his stick and skates, because they aren't fitting as well anymore.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yep after being stapled to Hall and McDavid. Don't think he would have got their without them carrying him.

First of all Drai played mostly with Hall in 15-16. you'll remember McDavid being injured much of that season.

Let me know if theres any more nonsense you want me to dispel. its raining outside, I have some time.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The irony in this is that the last part of your post is also false equivalence. But hey, you're right.

So tell us then what the point was of comparing Pulju to a player that made it.

You specifically selected a case of an individual that started slow and then found their NHL game. You simply selected an anecdote. Is it informative, or just hoping for the best.

All that comparing Jesse to Johansen does is say that its still possible for him to find his NHL game. I think we all know that.

But what is the probability like that Pulju will be an elite player after showing no signs of it in two seasons in NA?

I could compare Ryan Strome to Mark Messier through citation. Would there be any real point to it? Would it say anything about Ryan Strome specifically?


All you engaged in is hoping Pulju will turn out like Johansen, well, we'd all like that, but its just more hope and patience. Been a lot of that..

We all want Jesse to succeed, as Oilers fans under Chia what choice do we have?

 

[Drivesaitl]

List of Edmonton Oilers can't miss winger prospects and/or proficient NHL wingers;



(CRICKETS)

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

Yep after being stapled to Hall and McDavid. Don't think he would have got their without them carrying him.

So maybe we should start giving Puljujarvi some opportunity in the top 6. It worked with Draisaitl, and I expect the same with Pulju. Every time he's played with McDavid he's impressed me.

We can't expect him to put up crazy number playing 4th line minutes with next to no PP time. 10 EV goals this year with that usage is pretty damn impressive.

 

[Joey Moss]

So tell us then what the point was of comparing Pulju to a player that made it.

You specifically selected a case of an individual that started slow and then found their NHL game. You simply selected an anecdote. Is it informative, or just hoping for the best.

All that comparing Jesse to Johansen does is say that its still possible for him to find his NHL game. I think we all know that.

But what is the probability like that Pulju will be an elite player after showing no signs of it in two seasons in NA?

I could compare Ryan Strome to Mark Messier through citation. Would there be any real point to it? Would it say anything about Ryan Strome specifically?


All you engaged in is hoping Pulju will turn out like Johansen, well, we'd all like that, but its just more hope and patience. Been a lot of that..

We all want Jesse to succeed, as Oilers fans under Chia what choice do we have?

What are you talking about? You've gone completely out of your way to get into something I never said.

It's just a perfect example of why you can't call a player a bust at 20 years old. People forget the flack Johansen went through in his first few seasons and how quickly everyone forgot about it. It's a recent example and a player drafted in the exact same position so it's completely relevant.

 

[McAsuno]

JP isn't even close to being a bust. A real bust is pullups master Doug Gilmour 2.0 in Sam Bennett.

 

[Drivesaitl]

What are you talking about? You've gone completely out of your way to get into something I never said.

It's just a perfect example of why you can't call a player a bust at 20 years old. People forget the flack Johansen went through in his first few seasons and how quickly everyone forgot about it. It's a recent example and a player drafted in the exact same position so it's completely relevant.

The comparison to Johansen is irrelevant. That's all I meant to portray in response. I think you get that. Anecdotal comparisons mean nothing beyond "theres a chance" I think we all know there is still a chance for Jesse.

I don't see anybody calling Pulju a bust either. Who did that? Where is that post?

As to your latter point thank you for elaborating that you are using draft position as part of your comparison. That wasn't evident in your first post. Still doesn't mean anything much about Pulju's future trajectory other than success is possible. We all hope.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So maybe we should start giving Puljujarvi some opportunity in the top 6. It worked with Draisaitl, and I expect the same with Pulju. Every time he's played with McDavid he's impressed me.

We can't expect him to put up crazy number playing 4th line minutes with next to no PP time. 10 EV goals this year with that usage is pretty damn impressive.

As demonstrated half of Pulju's EV toi this season was topsix minutes and almost all of his goals were. Fact of the matter is he put up basically nothing in bottomsix configuration so as to impress upon the team that he consistently deserved better minutes (which he got lots of anyway) Lets not pretend this player was buried in bottomsix like Slepychev was.

Fair question to ask why Pulju, who had 8 goals up to December 29, 2017 only had 4 the rest of the way in the remaining 45GP.

I would feel somewhat differently if the good came after the bad. But its hard to ignore the last 45GP being very unproductive. A span in which Pulju was scoring once a month and looked invisible on most nights.