Player Discussion Jesse Puljujärvi 4th Overall 2016 Draft. Part V: Called Up 11/10/17

[CycloneSweep]

Maybe I shouldn't say this, but until a few weeks before the end of the season Puljujarvi was still the most efficient winger at scoring goals. That despite the non-existent/questionable PP usage, which I think was a shame. So there were good times, too.

I do understand often people's minds put a huge empahize on the last weeks and months. I agree Jesse's trend was down and his production numbers during the last couple of months were quite sad. There were some hindrances, but it doesn't explain nearly everything.

But if we put a lot of emphasize on those last weeks it's unfair to write off the first couple of months, during which Puljujarvi was one of the best players of the team. At least statistically and by Edmonton Journal player grades. Of course this goes the other way around, too.

Let's just try to be fair, that's all I'd hope.

No one is arguing that he didn't have a good stretch. Its just when a player has the amount of work he has and he was trending down as the season went on, that's not a good sign for a young player. I often see young guys start a little slower and picked it up fast as the season went on, Pulju was the opposite which is why the worry is there.

If he started the slow and started to figure it out as the season went on, that would be a great sign. The opposite is a worrysome trend for a young guy

 

[GameChanger]

No one is arguing that he didn't have a good stretch. Its just when a player has the amount of work he has and he was trending down as the season went on, that's not a good sign for a young player. I often see young guys start a little slower and picked it up fast as the season went on, Pulju was the opposite which is why the worry is there.

If he started the slow and started to figure it out as the season went on, that would be a great sign. The opposite is a worrysome trend for a young guy

Of course, I agree with what you said. It is a shame it went the wrong direction. But I personally am not as worried about that because I believe I know quite well which were the things that affected it.

But I do feel some writers are neglecting the good first months pretty totally, and finding almost nothing positive about the player. That is something I don't find fair, because he did have good times and some games where he really shined, too.

Too bad the end of the season was what it was, but the positive side is it takes some expectations off and it's always nicer to surprise positively than negatively. Let's hope (and as for me believe) that's how it goes.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Of course, I agree with what you said. It is a shame it went the wrong direction. But I personally am not as worried about that because I believe I know quite well which were the things that affected it.

But I do feel some writers are neglecting the good first months pretty totally, and finding almost nothing positive about the player. That is something I don't find fair, because he did have good times and some games where he really shined, too.

Too bad the end of the season was what it was, but the positive side is it takes some expectations off and it's always nicer to surprise positively than negatively. Let's hope (and as for me believe) that's how it goes.

I think the thing people discount is playing good with McDavid. Most of his success was with McDavid and he didn't really do anything at all away from him.

Its super hard to judge a player with McDavid unless they have crazh chemistry like Draisaitl or solid play like RNH.

What the season showed is the coaches could of used him better but he still personally has a lot of work to do to succeed.

 

[GameChanger]

I think the thing people discount is playing good with McDavid. Most of his success was with McDavid and he didn't really do anything at all away from him.

Its super hard to judge a player with McDavid unless they have crazh chemistry like Draisaitl or solid play like RNH.

What the season showed is the coaches could of used him better but he still personally has a lot of work to do to succeed.

Yes a lot of work left, but it's not quite true he didn't do anything away from McDavid. At the start of the season he clicked with all the centers he was given, that can be checked from the old messages, also the words McLellan said.

I would say that when he was hot and confident he did fine with anyone he was put with, but as the season progressed he would've needed McD, Nuge or Drai to hopefully push more out of him. They still tried him and Drai together, but by then Pulju's best playing was behind and Drai had more or less written himself off the season.

 

[Digger12]

I have to say as well I don't buy the Gonchar connection. Malkin was going to be an elite player regardless and his play suggested that. Malkin hit the ground running in the NHL and looked like a ready to unpack star player from the word go.

When you say you "don't buy the Gonchar connection", are you saying you don't buy the effect it had or that they had a connection at all?

Because they absolutely are very close friends, and Malkin has stated publicly in the past about how much of a help Gonchar was for him early in his career. He even dedicated his Hart trophy win to Gonchar.



Hell, during his acceptance speech he mentions how much Gonchar helped him when he first got to Pittsburgh. You're free to believe these are just empty platitudes, but I don't think they were.

 

[Drivesaitl]

When you say you "don't buy the Gonchar connection", are you saying you don't buy the effect it had or that they had a connection at all?

Because they absolutely are very close friends, and Malkin has stated publicly in the past about how much of a help Gonchar was for him early in his career. He even dedicated his Hart trophy win to Gonchar.



Hell, during his acceptance speech he mentions how much Gonchar helped him when he first got to Pittsburgh. You're free to believe these are just empty platitudes, but I don't think they were.

Well, you've done a good job supporting your point so I'll cede that. But I do think Malkin would still have had substantial success. Gentlemen are just like that, they defer to giving credit to others. No doubt in retrospect that Gonchar did a lot, as you stated, just that I disagree on whether it really made the difference in Malkin being successful. He would be anyway is my take. But its part of modesty to say its due to others. In hockey, being an essential team sport, you get a lot of that.

Sorry if I came off the wrong way.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

if Puju at 6ft4 212lbs doesn't have the strength to play a cycle/ puck retension role that is unfortunate. Yes, I realize he's young but Draisaitl was dominating the puck at the same age.

One of the difficulties, as I've oft stated, is its not clear years in what Pulju does excel at in the NHL.


tbh I'm a bit sick of hearing about the team "giving him a role where he can succeed" That to me seems to be putting the onus off the player for what was an unsatisfactory season from a player that by his own words was "dispirited".

I also don't understand your point about the Oilers "ALWAYS hit and miss" and then wanting to see Puljujarvi with Draisaitl. You don't notice anything there?



If this org started duct taping Pulju to Draisaitl its possibly going to be another long season unless Pulju can play the puck possession game you say that he is not strong enough for.

Pulju has good size, sure, but at the end of the day he still looks like a tall teenager on the ice vs. men. Which is exact what he is: he doesn't have the strength to not be out leveraged, nor is he built like the tank Leon is. He's better with speedy, skill guys vs. cyclers.

As for roles where a player succeeds, how about looking at RNH, and the difference in his game playing as a matchup centre vs. on the wing with McDavid. Hell, in the Slepyshev thread you agrued that his lack of getting a shot with in the top 6 was an idiotic move by the coaches. Its the same here.

The ideal spot for Pulju is either on a soft minutes, offensive 3rd line (e.g. Cammy-Strome-Pulju), or being carried on a 2nd line that prioritizes speed and skill with Drai (eg: Slepy/Aberg-Draisaitl-Pulju)


As the Oil failing to put players in a role to succeed. Well from this last season...

• Nuge lining up as matchup centre for the last year and a 1/2, before finally going to wing with McDavid.
• Klefbom with 20-something bone fragments in his shoulder being told to be the main shooter on the PP.
• Talbot run into the ground starting consecutive games.
• Auvitu not seeing a second of PP time, when you have Russell and Benning QB'ing the second unit to start last season.
• On that note, Russell and Benning on the PP...
• Force feeding Lucic time with McDavid and/or Draisaitl, instead of dropping him to the 3rd line and telling him to simplify his game/get back to basics.
• Letestu used as an all situations ace in the hole.
• Waiving a decent PK'er in Pakarinen, instead of using him as a 4th line specialist in an area the team needed. You could even toss Jokinen into this column too.
• Caggiula continually played higher in the lineup than justified.
• Scrating Davidson in favour of Benning.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Pulju has good size, sure, but at the end of the day he still looks like a tall teenager on the ice vs. men. Which is exact what he is: he doesn't have the strength to not be out leveraged, nor is he built like the tank Leon is. He's better with speedy, skill guys vs. cyclers.

As for roles where a player succeeds, how about looking at RNH, and the difference in his game playing as a matchup centre vs. on the wing with McDavid. Hell, in the Slepyshev thread you agrued that his lack of getting a shot with in the top 6 was an idiotic move by the coaches. Its the same here.

The ideal spot for Pulju is either on a soft minutes, offensive 3rd line (e.g. Cammy-Strome-Pulju), or being carried on a 2nd line that prioritizes speed and skill with Drai (eg: Slepy/Aberg-Draisaitl-Pulju)


As the Oil failing to put players in a role to succeed. Well from this last season...

• Nuge lining up as matchup centre for the last year and a 1/2, before finally going to wing with McDavid.
• Klefbom with 20-something bone fragments in his shoulder being told to be the main shooter on the PP.
• Talbot run into the ground starting consecutive games.
• Auvitu not seeing a second of PP time, when you have Russell and Benning QB'ing the second unit to start last season.
• On that note, Russell and Benning on the PP...
• Force feeding Lucic time with McDavid and/or Draisaitl, instead of dropping him to the 3rd line and telling him to simplify his game/get back to basics.
• Letestu used as an all situations ace in the hole.
• Waiving a decent PK'er in Pakarinen, instead of using him as a 4th line specialist in an area the team needed. You could even toss Jokinen into this column too.
• Caggiula continually played higher in the lineup than justified.
• Scrating Davidson in favour of Benning.

Thanks for the reply. As well for you elaborating on your pov, always appreciated. I disagree its the same as Slepy because he rarely got those topsix chances. He was buried in bottomsix despite immense and obvious talent and potential. With his rare times with Draisaitl much more memorable than anything Pulju has come up with. Slepy, on the basis of a suburb playoffs deserved a better spot in the lineup this year. He didn't get it, that's why I argued on his behalf.

You certainly won't get argument from me that the Oilers have a penchant for mismanaging players but I rejected the notion that its on every one.

These are players that I continue to see being well used by the club;

Drai, McD, Nurse, Bear, Khaira, Strome, Rattie,

But I do agree with you on a lot of the other players and usages. Just that Pulju got a better top and bottom mix than almost anybody on the team. seems to me at least that his toi was pretty well distributed throughout the team and getting some focus shifts, some shelter shifts, and as he could handle the pressure. Needs to be remembered that the Oilers were carefully managing a player that was perceived to be overwhelmed and even made comments to the effect that he was dispirited and feeling like the season was lasting forever. Somewhere along the line last season Pulju got dejected, its pretty clear, and so in fairness the Oilers were dealing with that too from someone who they thought would be more of a go to player.

Now that last part, I strongly blame Chia for, I don't blame McLellan as much for it. The winger shelf was so empty on this team that he was auditioning Auvitu at wing and guys like Walker and Malone.

As far as Jokinen he was benched early and often and rightly so as he NEVER showed up here. The Kings similarly had him riding the bench and Jokinen was long since on their scratch list by the time they hit the playoffs. I'd defer to saying Jokinen is junk at this point. He was regularly benched by the clubs he played for this season. lol that he played on 4 different clubs in one year. What a horrible season. Have bags, will pretend to still be an NHL player. This guy was the Rodney Dangerfield of the NHL this season. Its like nobody wanted him.

 

[McFlyingV]

No one is arguing that he didn't have a good stretch. Its just when a player has the amount of work he has and he was trending down as the season went on, that's not a good sign for a young player. I often see young guys start a little slower and picked it up fast as the season went on, Pulju was the opposite which is why the worry is there.

If he started the slow and started to figure it out as the season went on, that would be a great sign. The opposite is a worrysome trend for a young guy

I'd have to disagree with that. Guys in their first full season often start hot and fizzle out as the season progresses and this is something that happens quite frequently. We saw it with Draisaitl in 2015-16. We saw it with Keller last year. Its incredibly common for young players.

 

[Drivesaitl]

BTW this link and citations and comments is hilarious. Are any of the deep analytics thinkers lining up to say how absolutely wrong they were about this signing?

Edmonton Oilers sign another forward Jussi Jokinen — and everyone seems pleased

I called it a junk acquisition. I think I have even said something like JokerIN. For sure I was regularly stating Chia must be Jokingen.

It was the kind of garbage acquisition that doesn't help your club one iota. Yet the comments from the blogosphere were describing this addition as next to a godsend. lmao then and now.


ps I don't like the title either. Not all Oilers fans liked this signing and quite a few felt he was another nothing player at age 35 and said so.

When I was busy scoffing at this signing people were saying hang on, Chia isn't done yet, its still yada yada. Chia brought in Joker, Strome (for Eberle) and Auvitu in all of last offseason. I learn to be disappointed.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'd have to disagree with that. Guys in their first full season often start hot and fizzle out as the season progresses and this is something that happens quite frequently. We saw it with Draisaitl in 2015-16. We saw it with Keller last year. Its incredibly common for young players.

Drai had 19G, 51 pts that abbreviated season, a quantum leap from what Pulju put up. Keller put up 65pts. To make that comparisons without noting the drastic difference in performance and production is misleading. But not more than comparing Pulju to either Drai or Keller who are clearly established young star players and Jesse isn't.

 

[Habs100]

Habs fan here. Wondering who you guys consider the better prospect at this point: Yamamoto or Pulju?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yama and its not even close.

Yamamoto gives up 8inches and 58lbs in the comparison, and is size cursed as a professional athlete but is somehow a better and more enticing player.

Pulju has every physical gift any player would want, size, height, reach, and struggling to do much with it.

But you can't replace the desire which Yama wins hands down.

 

[nabob]

Yes a lot of work left, but it's not quite true he didn't do anything away from McDavid. At the start of the season he clicked with all the centers he was given, that can be checked from the old messages, also the words McLellan said.

I would say that when he was hot and confident he did fine with anyone he was put with, but as the season progressed he would've needed McD, Nuge or Drai to hopefully push more out of him. They still tried him and Drai together, but by then Pulju's best playing was behind and Drai had more or less written himself off the season.

I do remember he had a strong stretch of games with Nuge, then TMac had a brilliant moment and broke up a line that was clicking in hopes that Puljujarvi could ignite the 3rd line. Backfired as both the 2/3rd lines had no chemistry and McDavid's line with Drai was the only thing that clicked. Stupid coaching.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Well, you've done a good job supporting your point so I'll cede that. But I do think Malkin would still have had substantial success. Gentlemen are just like that, they defer to giving credit to others. No doubt in retrospect that Gonchar did a lot, as you stated, just that I disagree on whether it really made the difference in Malkin being successful. He would be anyway is my take. But its part of modesty to say its due to others. In hockey, being an essential team sport, you get a lot of that.

Sorry if I came off the wrong way.

Malkin definitely was going to have success no matter what, he is just that caliber of player.

Having a fellow countryman help your transition to the NHL definitely makes it easier.

 

[MessierII]

Yama and its not even close.

Yamamoto gives up 8inches and 58lbs in the comparison, and is size cursed as a professional athlete but is somehow a better and more enticing player.

Pulju has every physical gift any player would want, size, height, reach, and struggling to do much with it.

But you can't replace the desire which Yama wins hands down.

Tough to say. While Pulijaarvi hasn’t turned heads he’s been pretty good. Yamamoto hasn’t done anything in the big leagues yet. Yamamoto is only 5 months apart of from Pulijaarvi. People forget he was the youngest player in his draft year. I still like Jesse’s raw tools and potential more honestly.

10 even strength goals as a 19 year old in the nhl with limited top 6 minutes is pretty good. There’s a good player here.

 

[Hynh]

Tough to say. While Pulijaarvi hasn’t turned heads he’s been pretty good. Yamamoto hasn’t done anything in the big leagues yet. Yamamoto is only 5 months apart of from Pulijaarvi. People forget he was the youngest player in his draft year. I still like Jesse’s raw tools and potential more honestly.

10 even strength goals as a 19 year old in the nhl with limited top 6 minutes is pretty good. There’s a good player here.

PLD, Keller and Sergachev are all younger.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Yama and its not even close.

Yamamoto gives up 8inches and 58lbs in the comparison, and is size cursed as a professional athlete but is somehow a better and more enticing player.

Pulju has every physical gift any player would want, size, height, reach, and struggling to do much with it.

But you can't replace the desire which Yama wins hands down.

The same Yammamoto who was missing tons of chances every game when he was gifted a spot with McDavid?

 

[McFlyingV]

Drai had 19G, 51 pts that abbreviated season, a quantum leap from what Pulju put up. Keller put up 65pts. To make that comparisons without noting the drastic difference in performance and production is misleading. But not more than comparing Pulju to either Drai or Keller who are clearly established young star players and Jesse isn't.

Its not misleading because I was never comparing any of the players mentioned as equals or in any way other than how they got worse as the season progressed. I was disputing the idea that a lot of players in their first full season get better as the season goes, which often is not the case. That likely isn't the case because they are young kids and burn out from a tough long NHL season.

However, if you do want a comparable of a player who struggled in the NHL in their 2nd season after being drafted with no NA hockey experience prior you could look at Barkov. We'd be lucky if Puljujarvi became that good of a player, but its not like its rare for a player to struggle as a 19 year old in the NHL then end up becoming a very good player a couple years down the road.

 

[CycloneSweep]

The same Yammamoto who was missing tons of chances every game when he was gifted a spot with McDavid?

Yamamoto looked very good, just couldn't aim

 

[PulYou]

Yamamoto looked very good, just couldn't aim

Just noticed Your status... Good for You - explains a lot...

 

[Kagomeboy]

Just noticed Your status... Good for You - explains a lot...

Yeah ,just saw it.He is always like this.Pulj is going to be fine.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Yeah ,just saw it.He is always like this.Pulj is going to be fine.

Never said he wasn't.

 

[Kagomeboy]

Never said he wasn't.

Well your status says otherwise.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Well your status says otherwise.

Saying a player is bad doesn't mean they will never be good.