Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi Part 17

[morhilane]

We are getting closer to KK playing with Suzuki at 5v5 .

He's now playing with Evans (and Lehk). Which means that Suzuki is the last starting line-up forwards KK haven't played with this season and there is plenty of game left for it to happen with him switch linemates every 2-3 games. He should have two new linemates set before the season is done...

Now hopefully, KK gets back the chemistry he had with Evans last year in the AHL. Even if it is probably for just one game.

 

[26Mats]

KK down the middle please. I've been clamoring for Anderson-KK-CC

When Gally and Tatar are back I'm pretty sure it will be Anderson-KK-CC or Anderson-Evans-CC.

 

[Mrb1p]

Speed but no finish....

Surely. I dont expect much production but its better to have him at C with speed than at wing with danault.

Im not as invested as I was in him, so much mishandling you can see. Im pretty much numb to it now lol.

 

[Gravity]

When Gally and Tatar are back I'm pretty sure it will be Anderson-KK-CC or Anderson-Evans-CC.

Hoping for the former

 

[marvelousmotion]

From Natural Stat Trick line stats tool, on 5v5 (as KK only played 5v5 with them and the line was never put back together under Ducharme):

Toffoli/KK/Armia TOI : 54:52 GF 5, GA 1
Toffoli/Suzuki/Armia TOI: 100:42 GF 5, GA 2

I actually expected the Suzuki version to have more GF...

This is proof that in data analytics, numbers mean nothing without context. One needs to actually follow the team and watch the games to put things into perspective. Keep in mind that the goals scored by that KK, Toffoli and Armia line happened at the beginning of the season, when the entire team was red hot including those 5 games against the Canucks. The Habs were scoring at an unusual and unsustainable pace of ~6 goals per game. That line benefited from favorable matchups, against weaker opposition. Toffoli was on fire and scored 8 goals during those 5 games against his former team, he was scoring goals no matter who he was playing with.

They have not been productive together after that hot stretch as the team started to face tougher opposition. The same can be applied to all the other lines, including Drouin/Suzuki/Anderson, that was also red hot at the start of the year.

I get that some of you are trying to defend KK (agree that the hate has been way too excessive lately). However, trying to justify and blame his lack of production on everyone else is not helping his case (especially at the expense of the other players on the team).

Last year, Suzuki earned and worked his way into the top 6. He started his first dozen games playing on the 4th line with superstars Nate Thompson and Jordan Weal / Nick Cousins. That didn’t prevent him to impress every game playing with those players, scoring some timely goals and showing how responsible he was defensively.

KK has been given the opportunity to play a good portion of the year at Centre with Toffoli on his wing, the team's most productive player. Danault doesn't play on the PP, all the PP ice-time has been going to KK. Still, it's on the coaches, the players he plays with and he's been receiving the Galchenyuk/Desharnais type of treatment?

 

[Habs Icing]

But to not be concerned with KK’s offensive potential is wrong. I think he shows a lot of other nice things, the type of player you can trust defensively, he’ll hit, he’s starting to win faceoffs. But offensively? Huge question marks. He certainly doesn’t suck as an overall player though.

This! And that's what many of us are saying.

 

[Miller Time]

Very simplistic way of looking at this. Suzuki 10 points in his last 6 games. 4 are PP points. KK 0 points in last 6 games. So it’s not the PP that’s driving Nick over KK.

Either way, it’s not a competition between the two, we have both. But to not be concerned with KK’s offensive potential is wrong. I think he shows a lot of other nice things, the type of player you can trust defensively, he’ll hit, he’s starting to win faceoffs. But offensively? Huge question marks. He certainly doesn’t suck as an overall player though.

Absolutely there are question marks...

And, if we look at Suzuki's productivity, there is something to be said about the improvement he's made this year... Improvements that have occurred in the context of relative ES & PP ice time and linemate consistency he's been given this year, despite a few stretches of productivity drying up.

That's what setting a young player up for success/growing confidence generally requires.

Hopefully, next year JKO is given more of that consistency and opportunity to succeed so that we can see what he does with it.

 

[Miller Time]

This! And that's what many of us are saying.

You've been saying a lot, and most of it not nearly as balanced as that post/comment lol

Glad to see you come around.

 

[le_sean]

Absolutely there are question marks...

And, if we look at Suzuki's productivity, there is something to be said about the improvement he's made this year... Improvements that have occurred in the context of relative ES & PP ice time and linemate consistency he's been given this year, despite a few stretches of productivity drying up.

That's what setting a young player up for success/growing confidence generally requires.

Hopefully, next year JKO is given more of that consistency and opportunity to succeed so that we can see what he does with it.

Suzuki grasped that opportunity though. He started as a bottom line winger and earned his way to the top. It doesn’t matter who he plays with, he produces. Whether it’s fast wingers in Drouin and Anderson, or slow ones with Toffoli and Armia, it just works because he drives the play. We are waiting for KK to drive the play offensively.

 

[Habs Icing]

You've been saying a lot, and most of it not nearly as balanced as that post/comment lol

Glad to see you come around.

Come around to your view of things. I don't think so. I've said it from the end of his first season. KK is a 3rd line center. What @le_sean described was a 3rd line center.

 

[Miller Time]

Come around to your view of things. I don't think so. I've said it from the end of his first season. KK is a 3rd line center. What @Le Sean described was a 3rd line center.

He's actually a 4th line winger today, but whatever

 

[Miller Time]

Come around to your view of things. I don't think so. I've said it from the end of his first season. KK is a 3rd line center. What @LeSean described was a 3rd line center.

He's actually a 4th line winger today, but whatever

 

[Habs Icing]

He's actually a 4th line winger today, but whatever

You're so proud of that nonsense, you had to post it twice.

 

[Miller Time]

Suzuki grasped that opportunity though. He started as a bottom line winger and earned his way to the top. It doesn’t matter who he plays with, he produces. Whether it’s fast wingers in Drouin and Anderson, or slow ones with Toffoli and Armia, it just works because he drives the play. We are waiting for KK to drive the play offensively.

Yes & No.
Nick went through two long stretches this year of not producing without getting relegated or bounced to the wing.

it will be interesting to see if JKO gets that kind of opportunity, and when he does, what he makes of it.

JKO, despite his current lengthy drought, remains well ahead of where Suzuki was at the same age as far as productivity relative to ES ice time.... 12 months from now, what does JKO's offense look like if he's getting similar opportunities to what Suzuki got this year? Hopefully we get to find out & hopefully it looks very similar, if not better... That's both plausible and best case for the team.

 

[26Mats]

He's actually a 4th line winger today, but whatever

It was reposted that he's at center and Evan's is at wing.

Which is it, lol.

 

[Miller Time]

It was reposted that he's at center and Evan's is at wing.

Which is it, lol.

I guess we'll see...

Was pretty shocking to see that, as Evans hasn't been better at C than JKO in any capacity, but at this point not much surprises me

 

[Habby4Life]

This season is a writeoff for KK. Next year he better show some decent improvement offensively.

Enough excuses, linemates, covid, coach hates him, PP time, young, and on and on.

It is time to put up and start contributing offense.

It's pretty simple, force the coach's hand by playing well, NS has.

 

[McGees]

I guess we'll see...

Was pretty shocking to see that, as Evans hasn't been better at C than JKO in any capacity, but at this point not much surprises me

As long as Staal is happy.

 

[417]

Absolutely there are question marks...

And, if we look at Suzuki's productivity, there is something to be said about the improvement he's made this year... Improvements that have occurred in the context of relative ES & PP ice time and linemate consistency he's been given this year, despite a few stretches of productivity drying up.

That's what setting a young player up for success/growing confidence generally requires.

Hopefully, next year JKO is given more of that consistency and opportunity to succeed so that we can see what he does with it.

Beautifully said...that's where it's at.

 

[morhilane]

Wasn’t the kk line in tact at the start of the year when TT was torching the nucks and we were scoring SH at will.

i believe Suzuki was with that line where some wanted him scratched because he looked like ass for an extended period of time

would definitely sway the numbers I believe

I just expected the Suzuki version to have more goals at 5v5 the way Suzuki/Toffoli/Armia have been playing the last 6 games. It wasn't sarcasm or anything.

Toffoli became "red hot" on April 21st (scored unassisted goals) two games before Suzuki "woke-up". Their line didn't do much before that and they were together for multiple games.

KK played around 6 games with Toffoli/Armia and they had zero points in the first 3 games (but looked good). Toffoli went red hot for a few games after the first Canucks game and Armia got hurt (Toffoli/KK/Perry is 4 GF 1 GA in 65 minutes after losing Armia). Then Toffoli got cold his production was not constant until April 21st where he started another long stretch of getting points.

Toffoli current production level is similar to what he had at the start of the season (9 pts in 8 games).

 

[26Mats]

I guess we'll see...

Was pretty shocking to see that, as Evans hasn't been better at C than JKO in any capacity, but at this point not much surprises me

I at least like that Dom heads inbthe right direction with the lines and then basically gets it right after a few tries. Unlike Julien who would roll out the same shit all season long.

I have Lehkonen back with Staal and Perry because they excelled as a line and Evans-KK-Caufiled. At least no more KK on the wing, and Evan's and Lehkonen are gaining the coach's confidence.

 

[Miller Time]

I at least like that Dom heads inbthe right direction with the lines and then basically gets it right after a few tries. Unlike Julien who would roll out the same shit all season long.

I have Lehkonen back with Staal and Perry because they excelled as a line and Evans-KK-Caufiled. At least no more KK on the wing, and Evan's and Lehkonen are gaining the coach's confidence.

i'm not crazy about his approach of late with JKO, mainly because i think he could be on the brink of giving us a lot more productivity if the coaches just invested a little bit into his confidence, which they could if they also stopped trying to force feed opportunities to Staal in the hope that he'll figure out how to be useful again...

but I also don't mind the overall flexibility he takes in playing with line assignments in trying to get maximize short term results.

tough coaching spot to be in, but with a playoff spot all but locked up, i think it worth using the rest of the regular season to try and nurture some confidence in JKO/Romanov/Lekhonen, as I think those 3 could be huge for us come playoff time.. .JKO in particular as he has the biggest impact growth ceiling in a short window of anyone on the roster.

 

[TannedBum]

Was she right after all ?

Maybe the next GM should be a woman. Mumsy knows best.

 

[Ozmodiar]

This is proof that in data analytics, numbers mean nothing without context. One needs to actually follow the team and watch the games to put things into perspective. Keep in mind that the goals scored by that KK, Toffoli and Armia line happened at the beginning of the season, when the entire team was red hot including those 5 games against the Canucks. The Habs were scoring at an unusual and unsustainable pace of ~6 goals per game. That line benefited from favorable matchups, against weaker opposition. Toffoli was on fire and scored 8 goals during those 5 games against his former team, he was scoring goals no matter who he was playing with.

They have not been productive together after that hot stretch as the team started to face tougher opposition. The same can be applied to all the other lines, including Drouin/Suzuki/Anderson, that was also red hot at the start of the year.

I get that some of you are trying to defend KK (agree that the hate has been way too excessive lately). However, trying to justify and blame his lack of production on everyone else is not helping his case (especially at the expense of the other players on the team).

Last year, Suzuki earned and worked his way into the top 6. He started his first dozen games playing on the 4th line with superstars Nate Thompson and Jordan Weal / Nick Cousins. That didn’t prevent him to impress every game playing with those players, scoring some timely goals and showing how responsible he was defensively.

KK has been given the opportunity to play a good portion of the year at Centre with Toffoli on his wing, the team's most productive player. Danault doesn't play on the PP, all the PP ice-time has been going to KK. Still, it's on the coaches, the players he plays with and he's been receiving the Galchenyuk/Desharnais type of treatment?

Exactly right!!

 

[26Mats]

i'm not crazy about his approach of late with JKO, mainly because i think he could be on the brink of giving us a lot more productivity if the coaches just invested a little bit into his confidence, which they could if they also stopped trying to force feed opportunities to Staal in the hope that he'll figure out how to be useful again...

but I also don't mind the overall flexibility he takes in playing with line assignments in trying to get maximize short term results.

tough coaching spot to be in, but with a playoff spot all but locked up, i think it worth using the rest of the regular season to try and nurture some confidence in JKO/Romanov/Lekhonen, as I think those 3 could be huge for us come playoff time.. .JKO in particular as he has the biggest impact growth ceiling in a short window of anyone on the roster.

I hope they find the right player to play with KK and Caufield. My first thought is it should be a pass first pkayer to find Caufield. My second is it should at least be someone who makes plays. So, Gallagher, Tatar, or maybe one of my least favorite Habs finds redemption feeding Caufield - Jo Drouin.