Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Part 15) Rise of the Wolverine Edition!

[Mrb1p]

You don't think that amongs the games he plays, he doesn't do tons of mistakes. And the coaches don't let them learn from them? You think nobody is teaching them? I have no idea why not playing a few games automatically means that they aren't learning when they play.....They are playing. They are making mistakes. And they are learning from them. But yes, in addition, they skip a few games here and there. Now, in JK case, kid needs to go in Laval. Period. Whatever we feel the reason is, he is not at a NHL level right now. So if you believe they make a mistake by not using him properly, you have to wish he goes to Laval. 'Cause he won't suddenly play on the 1st line.

Not playing SOME games ? Hes been playing 10 minutes a game for over a year now ? Hes been getting pinned to the bench for whole 2nd periods because of one single mistake he did back in october (Because of the slow change against Tampa.), get f***ing real.

This is insane the length youd go to put the blame on Timmins. Blame Timmins all you want but for christs sakes, stop being so dumb about it and actually get honest about things.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

that’s quite the dramatic interpretation.

Elite athletes aren’t so easily destroyed.

A lot of messages here are exagerated, dramatic mise en scene and demagogiques.

Oh we destroyed KK !! ... come on, seriously?
Euh, no, he's not destroyed. Wait when he'll be 23y ! He's a future good center but wait 3 years.

 

[Whitesnake]

Not playing SOME games ? Hes been playing 10 minutes a game for over a year now ? Hes been getting pinned to the bench for whole 2nd periods because of one single mistake he did back in october (Because of the slow change against Tampa.), get ****ing real.

This is insane the length youd go to put the blame on Timmins. Blame Timmins all you want but for christs sakes, stop being so dumb about it and actually get honest about things.

Geez, can you actually understand what not playing some games mean? Like...being in the stands? I'm the dumb one and you are saying he is benched for 2nd periodS because of a mistake he made in October? I'm the dumb one? And JK now is destroyed? And I'm the dumb one? But because he sits some games, they actually don't play them at all and he is not learning from his mistakes? And I'm the dumb one?

And what does Timmins has to do with JK usage? I said AT THE DRAFT that he was not the BPA. But because of Timmins inability to draft a C in 15 years, we probably had no choice but to pick him. How about that honesty? And what does Timmins has to do with me wanting JK in Laval right now? What does Timmins has to do with JK not being ready to take charge of a 1st line right now? Who the f*** plays dumb now? Tabarnak, come on man.

Hey Filip Chytil was in the NHL last year. 23 points. Guess where he started this year? In the AHL. And then they called him up. Oh my god...was he destroyed? And he's playing on a 3rd line. YES! I know The 2 centers in front of him are surely better than Danault. But the point still remains....as a young kid, he doesn't and is not expected to run the offense and have tough matchups.

 

[Mrb1p]

Geez, can you actually understand what not playing some games mean? Like...being in the stands? I'm the dumb one and you are saying he is benched for 2nd periodS because of a mistake he made in October? I'm the dumb one? And JK now is destroyed? And I'm the dumb one? But because he sits some games, they actually don't play them at all and he is not learning from his mistakes? And I'm the dumb one?

And what does Timmins has to do with JK usage? I said AT THE DRAFT that he was not the BPA. But because of Timmins inability to draft a C in 15 years, we probably had no choice but to pick him. How about that honesty? And what does Timmins has to do with me wanting JK in Laval right now? What does Timmins has to do with JK not being ready to take charge of a 1st line right now? Who the **** plays dumb now? Tabarnak, come on man.

He routinely sits whole 2nd periods because of that mistake, yes, its not just one period back then, Julien sits him because he thinks hes too slow to cover for the bench length.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Elite athletes are human and the human mind works similarly for everyone to variant degree.

LOL
such BS.
Seriously?
Of course athletes are human! Of course there’s a variance in the condition of their minds!

try looking at the attributes that separate the greats from the coulda-beens.

 

[Garbageyuk]

What a f***ing disaster KK has been...sad.

 

[Habs]

That lady on the Stands was prophetic when we drafted him.

 

[Archijerej]

At the very least Galchenyuk was used in an offensive role. He was given PP time.

So is Kotkaniemi. He's getting PP time, during which he's much closer to a liability than an asset, and he's being fed sheltered even strength minutes, during which he produces at Nate Thompson's level. What do you think Kotkaniemi's line role has been ever since he won a roster spot? Shut down the opposition, or provide secondary scoring against the opponent's weaker players?

Sure, his development was bad too(not being used at Center).

I really though Galchenyuk's career after Montreal would make explaining this redundant, but apparently not. So I'll explain again: Galch never had the hockey sense, vision, skating and conditioning to play center. His skill set included an excellent shot, when he had the time to unload it (i.e. on the powerplay) and good stickhandling, which he didn't know when to use anyway. Montreal actually squeezed the best years out of this extremely limited hockey player.

Kotkaniemi is not being given an opportunity to showcase any offense at all. He’s spent more of his time playing with pylons like Lehkonen, Armia, Byron, Weal.

It's cute how you put Lehkonen, Armia and Byron in the same category as Weal. He also played with Drouin and hasn't been able to create shit during that stretch. Nobody reasonable expected this kid to light the world on fire. I hoped he can repeat last seasons production, while developing other aspects of his game. He regressed at every facet. If your take this season is that he's flying out there creating chances for his talentless linemates, then you are seriously delusional.

Sure, good 3rd line players. But is that what we want Kotkaniemi to be?

For starters, I'd like him to become a better player than Nate f***ing Thompson. If that materialises, we can start to think about the next step.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You don't think that amongs the games he plays, he doesn't do tons of mistakes. And the coaches don't let them learn from them? You think nobody is teaching them? I have no idea why not playing a few games automatically means that they aren't learning when they play.....They are playing. They are making mistakes. And they are learning from them. But yes, in addition, they skip a few games here and there. Now, in JK case, kid needs to go in Laval. Period. Whatever we feel the reason is, he is not at a NHL level right now. So if you believe they make a mistake by not using him properly, you have to wish he goes to Laval. 'Cause he won't suddenly play on the 1st line.

It’s not a couple of benchings we’re talking about, it’s the usage. It’s been horrible since the end of last year.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

It’s not a couple of benchings we’re talking about, it’s the usage. It’s been horrible since the end of last year.

indeed but the fact that his ice time went down instead of going up says it all.

1- They dont want to play him in a better role.
2- Then if they think he dont deserve more ice time , why not send him in the world junior and let him play 19min a night in Laval.

Every branches of this org is just a freaking mess.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

So is Kotkaniemi. He's getting PP time, during which he's much closer to a liability than an asset, and he's being fed sheltered even strength minutes, during which he produces at Nate Thompson's level. What do you think Kotkaniemi's line role has been ever since he won a roster spot? Shut down the opposition, or provide secondary scoring against the opponent's weaker players?



I really though Galchenyuk's career after Montreal would make explaining this redundant, but apparently not. So I'll explain again: Galch never had the hockey sense, vision and conditioning to play center. His skill set included an excellent shot, when he had the time to unload it (i.e. on the powerplay) and good stickhandling, which he didn't know when to use anyway. Montreal actually squeezed the best years out of this extremely limited hockey player.



It's cute how you put Lehkonen, Armia and Byron in the same category as Weal. He also played with Drouin and hasn't been able to create **** during that stretch. Nobody reasonable expected this kid to light the world on fire. I hoped he can repeat last seasons production, while developing other aspects of his game. He regressed at every facet. If your take this season is that he's flying out there creating chances for his talentless linemates, then you are seriously delusional.



For starters, I'd like him to become a better player than Nate ****ing Thompson. If that materialises, whe can start to think about the next step.

I never said he was playing well this year, I completely agree that he’s regressed in every facet of his game.

You know what though? This is far from the first cry when it comes to young players joining our roster only to regress after a good start under our coaching and development.

Players are human beings. I do believe that our coaching and development staff do not know how to properly communicate or encourage our young players.

The only ones who ever seem to succeed are the gym rats who are Uber-motivated on their own terms (Gallagher, Subban). Everyone else always seems to stagnate.

How can it be that all these draft picks over the last 20 years are ALL this useless? Law of averages would dictate we’d have atleast a few other homeruns under our belt.

 

[salbutera]

I never said he was playing well this year, I completely agree that he’s regressed in every facet of his game.

You know what though? This is far from the first cry when it comes to young players joining our roster only to regress after a good start under our coaching and development.

Players are human beings. I do believe that our coaching and development staff do not know how to properly communicate or encourage our young players.

The only ones who ever seem to succeed are the gym rats who are Uber-motivated on their own terms (Gallagher, Subban). Everyone else always seems to stagnate.

How can it be that all these draft picks over the last 20 years are ALL this useless? Law of averages would dictate we’d have atleast a few other homeruns under our belt.

Poor player skill identification (scouting) perhaps? How many of these draft picks have ever left the Habs org and succeeded elsewhere? I can only think of LeClair & Ribeiro (whose issue was more about battling personal demons).

No development program was ever going to turn Terry Ryan into Iginla or Chouinard into junior team linemate Gagne.

 

[Habs Icing]

Not playing SOME games ? Hes been playing 10 minutes a game for over a year now ? Hes been getting pinned to the bench for whole 2nd periods because of one single mistake he did back in october (Because of the slow change against Tampa.), get ****ing real.

This is insane the length youd go to put the blame on Timmins. Blame Timmins all you want but for christs sakes, stop being so dumb about it and actually get honest about things.

10 minutes a game. FAKE NEWS.
For both seasons combined, he has played an average of 13:30. His average for this year is 13:00. Where you got that 10 minutes from is anyone's guess. When you look at Gallagher's combined average TOI for the last 2 years you see he received 16:35. Yeah you're right, that extra 3:05 TOI is destroying KK. It's not the fact that his skating is the worst on the team, maybe in the league. It's not that his shooting is erratic. Or that his puck handling is porous, his defensive positioning non-existant. No, it's because on average he gets 3 minutes less than Gallagher a game.

 

[Habs Icing]

That lady on the Stands was prophetic when we drafted him.

I think Molson should make her Director of Scouting. It looks like she has a handle on this scouting buisness.

 

[Archijerej]

You know what though? This is far from the first cry when it comes to young players joining our roster only to regress after a good start under our coaching and development.

I don't necessarily disagree. However, when you're picking #3OA in a draft with talent-heavy top-5, choosing a fragile, high-maintenance project is perhaps not the way to go. Looking at Boston I have much more trust in Julien's ability to develop young players, than Timmins' ability to identify talent.

 

[Whitesnake]

It’s not a couple of benchings we’re talking about, it’s the usage. It’s been horrible since the end of last year.

Again, define horrible usage. 3rd line? Not horrible. He is given what he can give. And frankly, some games, he receives more than he should. Not enough PP time? That I'll agree. You get a guy going that way. But nobody will convince that the kid deserved more on ES than he received. Sorry.

 

[Whitesnake]

I don't necessarily disagree. However, when you're picking #3OA in a draft with talent-heavy top-5, choosing a fragile, high-maintenance project is perhaps not the way to go. Looking at Boston I have much more trust in Julien's ability to develop young players, than Timmins' ability to identify talent.

A very great post. Somehow, people believes that Timmins is not at fault 'cause hey, he supposed drafted so well....it's impossible for him to have fall from a cliff and totally forgot to draft. So the problem is surely development.

Well Claude Julien, when he stepped in had young Kessel, Lucic, Rask, Bergeron, Krejci, Marchand, Krug, Pastrnak, Reilly Smith. Even really ordinairy guys like McQuaid became reliable under Julien. And then guys will bring Seguin as a proof of Julien' s bad development issues. Geez, under Julien, Séguin did have 67 points in 81 games. And it was prooving times and times again how unserious the kid was about his career. Till he woke up.

Julien might not be the sole responsible for those kids development. Surely not. Coaches before him might. Players themselves were surely just great with or without him. But the question is this....how the f*** can we establish that he is DESTROYING a kid? If Timmins couldn't have forgot how to draft? Did Julien forgot how to develop? Isn't there any great names in that list to think that maybe Julien gives leash where leash is deserved?

Point with JK is that he was drafted No3 for the lack of C's in the system. But was mostly drafted for a longer term. Until he did very well last year and we decided to keep him so that the interest would still be there 'cause the team wasn't good enough in itself. So like a lot of kids, he went out with no fear. Now, in order to be a succesful and durable NHL'er, fear comes in. Fear to do great. Fear to have additional responsabilities adn so on. And not everybody can take. ESPECIALLY when you are amongst the youngest one in the NHL.

The ONLY mistake the team is making right is to keep him here. Not sending him top 6 is NOT a mistake.

 

[Archijerej]

Well Claude Julien, when he stepped in had young Kessel, Lucic, Rask, Bergeron, Krejci, Marchand, Krug, Pastrnak, Reilly Smith. Even really ordinairy guys like McQuaid became reliable under Julien. And then guys will bring Seguin as a proof of Julien' s bad development issues. Geez, under Julien, Séguin did have 67 points in 81 games. And it was prooving times and times again how unserious the kid was about his career. Till he woke up.

This. The narrative about Julien is bonkers.

 

[dinodebino]

Laval. No idea why they aren't sending him there. Is it something in his contract? I couldn't tell. But this kid needs to go hone his game back to form in Laval. He's lost right now. Besides, this squad ain't winning squat.

 

[DangerDave]

Laval. No idea why they aren't sending him there. Is it something in his contract? I couldn't tell. But this kid needs to go hone his game back to form in Laval. He's lost right now. Besides, this squad ain't winning squat.

It was obvious this was the right move since the 10 game mark. Management and coaches are blind.

 

[DAChampion]

A very great post. Somehow, people believes that Timmins is not at fault 'cause hey, he supposed drafted ...

If you went to a restaurant where the cook had a habit of taking a dump on the food, would you fire the guy who buys the groceries when the meals turn out gross?

 

[azcanuck]

Laval. No idea why they aren't sending him there. Is it something in his contract? I couldn't tell. But this kid needs to go hone his game back to form in Laval. He's lost right now. Besides, this squad ain't winning squat.

I think they are afraid he wont dominate there. It's not an easy league. Very physical. They are coddling him up here with the big club.

 

[DangerDave]

If you went to a restaurant where the cook had a habit of taking a dump on the food, would you fire the guy who buys the groceries when the meals turn out gross?

We'll the groceries aren't exactly fresh most of the time either though lol

 

[Sorinth]

It’s not a couple of benchings we’re talking about, it’s the usage. It’s been horrible since the end of last year.

Quite frankly if they aren't willing to play him as a top-6 center starting next year they should trade him this summer.

 

[ZUKI]

10 minutes a game. FAKE NEWS.
For both seasons combined, he has played an average of 13:30. His average for this year is 13:00. Where you got that 10 minutes from is anyone's guess. When you look at Gallagher's combined average TOI for the last 2 years you see he received 16:35. Yeah you're right, that extra 3:05 TOI is destroying KK. It's not the fact that his skating is the worst on the team, maybe in the league. It's not that his shooting is erratic. Or that his puck handling is porous, his defensive positioning non-existant. No, it's because on average he gets 3 minutes less than Gallagher a game.

Come on ! fake news from NHL.com
KK plays 10 minutes per game . Danault plays 28 minutes per game