Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Part 14)

[Tyson]

I just wonder who scouted Kotkaniemi and didn't they realize he is an awful skater with atrocious balance? Never good to draft for possible potential at 3rd overall.His skating can be improved upon but he looks like bambi out there and guy a guy whose legs are trying to catch up to his body.He may be really good in 3 or 4 years but this is a definite longer term project at this point.

For this reason he should not be in the NHL at the moment

 

[The Great Weal]

I know it's harder to send down KK because of the Byron and Drouin injuries, but developing him is far more important than trying to make the playoffs and falling just short.

 

[Habs Icing]

I have a hard time pinpointing his ceiling to be honest. While his skating is definitely lackluster considering where the NHL is headed, his combination of hands, smarts and shot can make him a very dangerous offensive player.

I agree with you about the skating but I disagree about his hands, smarts and shot. From what I've seen I'm not overly impressed with his hands and shot. That might be because his stick is too long for him or it could be he just doesn't have the elite tools. As for his smarts, yes, I see vision and hockey IQ but again I don't see elite skills here. I see enough vision and IQ to bring him to that #2 C - nothing more than that.

I think Suzuki has more skills than KK and I'm not really sure he'll become a #1 C. His lack of size, strength, and explosive speed in his initial steps will hold him back.

 

[ahmedou]

Easy chronology. That's logical. But it doesn't seem like that for the smarts faces who've been charged with this type of task.

Liiga → AHL → NHL

 

[Habs Icing]

All youre doing here is going safe enough to not look dumb if he surpasses and high enough not to look dumb if hes worst. Kotkaniemi has shown everything a 1C needs.

I'm really glad you parked yourself in my head and are keeping track of what I'm really. really doing.

Here allow me to return the favour. You've bitching and whining about KK's usage because you went out on a limb about this kid's imagined skills and hate to admit to the world that your scouting may have made a mistake.

That last sentence from me is as valid as your post.

 

[Habs Icing]

Playing under Julien is the worst right now for KK.....Julien making sure everyone knows that the 19 year old is responsible for this loss......

My guess is KK wants nothing to do with the puck moving forward. Unless he enjoys being called out in the media and being blamed for the worst loss for the Canadiens in the last 2 decades, he’ll just chip the puck off the glass and go for his line change.....

Happy now Claude, I made the safe play....no minus on this shift

I don't know if you're being facetious but I'll use your post to contradict the gripe against Julien today. I heard Julien's quote and he specially said he wasn't blaming KK for the loss. He was just giving an example of plays (ice the puck and then lose the faceoff) that lose games.

 

[Mrb1p]

I'm really glad you parked yourself in my head and are keeping track of what I'm really. really doing.

Here allow me to return the favour. You've *****ing and whining about KK's usage because you went out on a limb about this kid's imagined skills and hate to admit to the world that your scouting may have made a mistake.

That last sentence from me is as valid as your post.

I already took care of this way before he, Hughes or Boqvist were to be drafted by the Habs by saying Id expect them to hold back their development.

 

[Mrb1p]

I don't know if you're being facetious but I'll use your post to contradict the gripe against Julien today. I heard Julien's quote and he specially said he wasn't blaming KK for the loss. He was just giving an example of plays (ice the puck and then lose the faceoff) that lose games.

The fact is he singled him out AGAIN for a mistake he didn't really make, an indirect one at best, for the third time this year.

He's beating on the rotten corpse of a horse with a maxim gun.

 

[Whitesnake]

Still wonder how Julien would have f***ed up a Tkachuk development or a Hughes development when the guy is actually using Suzuki, Fleury and Mete in key roles.

Some people go to an awful length to justify Timmins the god.....So now that Lefebvre is gone, it will be all Julien's fault? If one day Julien is fired....who will it be? Churla? Ah yes, that's true, 'cause hey some of those picks didn't seem Timmins way of doing things...lollll

 

[SOLR]

I just wonder who scouted Kotkaniemi and didn't they realize he is an awful skater with atrocious balance? Never good to draft for possible potential at 3rd overall.His skating can be improved upon but he looks like bambi out there and guy a guy whose legs are trying to catch up to his body.He may be really good in 3 or 4 years but this is a definite longer term project at this point.

I scouted him plenty, and it wasn't visible in juniors for a few reasons: 1) big ice surface 2) When everything is slower he is stable, I feel like he's not used to the extra speed yet.

 

[ZUKI]

KK was drafted to dominate, not handle the NHL.

to dominate in the future , yes .

 

[Ozmodiar]

He’s a project. They should develop him as such. He shouldn’t be in the NHL yet.

If he isn’t a project, in their minds, then it was a bad pick at 3.

 

[Tighthead]

KK was a long term project drafted to address a need that appeared to be immediate and chronic. That’s hardly compatible.

 

[Skip Bayless]

He’s a project. They should develop him as such. He shouldn’t be in the NHL yet.

If he isn’t a project, in their minds, then it was a bad pick at 3.

He definitely needed more time in Finland, to grow into his body and practice his skating and stickhandling instead of playing every 2 days in the best league in the planet and traveling an entire continent.

 

[Mrb1p]

Still wonder how Julien would have ****ed up a Tkachuk development or a Hughes development when the guy is actually using Suzuki, Fleury and Mete in key roles.

Some people go to an awful length to justify Timmins the god.....So now that Lefebvre is gone, it will be all Julien's fault? If one day Julien is fired....who will it be? Churla? Ah yes, that's true, 'cause hey some of those picks didn't seem Timmins way of doing things...lollll

How do you think Julien would've handled having Hughes or Boqvist on the team ? Then again, its true that Fleury has been doing plenty of mistakes and he's still in the line-up, but he hits like a truck and Im sure Julien gets a boner every time he sees a hit, so he instantly likes him. As for these two, you'd have to think of Mete, but I think Mete was and will always be a much more tame player offensively and his risk taking is much lesser than these two.

As for Tkachuk, I don't think he would have messed him up. He's a hard worker, he was pretty much ready from the get-go and he only has a few flaws still at hand. Im starting to think that he was the pick for the Habs. Not because Kotkaniemi is a worse player, less talented, or what ever, just because this teams track record with young player is what it is. Kotkaniemi would have benefitted from slower development, but they wanted it now, Im still amazed as to why they didn't go for Tkachuk if they wanted a player that was gonna play right away.

Also how good would Hughes look had he been in the NHL last year ? He made great strides as a player last year, but surely, the Habs would've rushed him in 18-19.

Note that Lefevbre was terrible, but Therrien and Julien have been equally bad for players development. Therrien produced only one kid, Gallagher. Granted, thats more than Lefevbre, but its still quite bad in 5 years.

Hows that looking so far though, with Suzuki, Mete, Fleury, KK, Lekhonen, Gally, Galchenyuk, DLR, Sergachev all having permanent spot it looks like Timmins ain't doing too bad after all. Bolded weren't developped by any of Julien, Therrien or Lefevebre.

How do you explain that ? Maybe one day we can stop being so anal about Timmins and start to actually see things rationally ?

to dominate in the future , yes .

I don't disagree. Is playing ten minutes a night in the NHL today the best way to accomplish that ?

 

[DangerDave]

Idk how anyone can justify that KK playing 9 minutes a night with no specific role is OK. He isn't some career journeyman. He's a lottery pick and is a big part of this team going forward.

He's not playing well. I get it. No need to get sink him any lower than he is. Just send him to Laval and tell him to focus on his skating and strength.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Still wonder how Julien would have ****ed up a Tkachuk development or a Hughes development when the guy is actually using Suzuki, Fleury and Mete in key roles.

Some people go to an awful length to justify Timmins the god.....So now that Lefebvre is gone, it will be all Julien's fault? If one day Julien is fired....who will it be? Churla? Ah yes, that's true, 'cause hey some of those picks didn't seem Timmins way of doing things...lollll

Fleury and Suzuki are both 20
Mete was bad at 18 let's be honest.
They rushed Kotkaniemi , also the second year always hit hard for young players. Kotka need to play in the ahl with poehling the entire season. Even with Drouin and Byron injured , id call McCarron on the 4th line and use weal on the third line. We are wasting another asset

 

[Toene]

Imo, right now both MB and CJ are responsible for Kotkaniemi's struggle.
The former because he has no plan and didn't foresee the logjam at center with Domi, Kotkaniemi, Danault and Suzuki.
The latter, because even if he slots KK as the "third line center", he plays him less than our 4C, which should never happen.

I'm patient and I don't mind seeing Kotka develop slowly on the third line with some special teams duties sparkled here and there. I think it can work. But there's a difference between developping gradually, and simply rotting at the bottom of the line-up as the less used player. If you absolutely need to have Danault on the top-6 since he's our best match-up center, then do this :

Domi
Danault
Kotkaniemi (2nd PP wave, 2nd PK wave)
Suzuki (1st PP wave, 2nd PK wave)

Thompson on the wing or scratched, who tf cares.

That way, you have both young centermen playing comparable minutes, with Suzuki getting a bit more special teams, and Kotka more 5-on-5. Or do the opposite and switch both so KK get more special teams and Suzuki more EV. As long as they have clear roles and they know what is expected of them. Then, gradually reduce Danault's minutes and increase them for KK/Suzuki.

Eventually, one will have to be traded imo, especially with Poehling in the pipeline.

 

[Tighthead]

Imo, right now both MB and CJ are responsible for Kotkaniemi's struggle.
The former because he has no plan and didn't foresee the logjam at center with Domi, Kotkaniemi, Danault and Suzuki.
The latter, because even if he slots KK as the "third line center", he plays him less than our 4C, which should never happen.

The beauty of cost-controlled players is being able to exploit their reduced salary. It should absolutely happen as often as possible.

Alzner is our third highest paid D I assume and he is well down the depth chart.

 

[webersshot]

Im not really worried about the kid. Barkov played as an 18 year old. Only out up 39 pts in his sophomore year. Obviously Kotkaniemi is a little behind that ATM but I think he can get there and he also missed some time with injury as well.

 

[Dirby Kach]

Send to WJHC then Laval for 15-20 games to play 1C.

 

[calder candidate]

The fact is he singled him out AGAIN for a mistake he didn't really make, an indirect one at best, for the third time this year.

He's beating on the rotten corpse of a horse with a maxim gun.

Starting to wonder if Julien would prefer to have KK in the AHL so he is taking every opportunity to throw him under the bus hoping MB will give in and send him down.

 

[salbutera]

Im not really worried about the kid. Barkov played as an 18 year old. Only out up 39 pts in his sophomore year. Obviously Kotkaniemi is a little behind that ATM but I think he can get there and he also missed some time with injury as well.

Furthermore, Barkov had 2G + 3A in 25-games into his sophomore year...

 

[DAChampion]

Starting to wonder if Julien would prefer to have KK in the AHL so he is taking every opportunity to throw him under the bus hoping MB will give in and send him down.

It's a bad sign if Julien and Bergevin are not only having a major disagreement on such a significant issue, but handling it in such a passive aggressive way.

Julien should be able to tell Bergevin "send this kid to the AHL for a few months."

 

[dinodebino]

Stop f***ing around with KK. Play him 15-16 minutes a game. This year is a wash. Let the kids play. He made a booboo on Saturday? WHo cares. How about 31? He made a major one. How about 21 on one of the Rags goal? Or Gallagher on two occasions, including the PP? Why publicly target, coup sur coup, Fleury, Suzuki and KK over the last 4 lossses, while your vets shat the bed?

Problem is : this coach believes they have a chance to make the playoffs, because he believes he's being paid 5M for that reason. Well, guess what, your GM and the rest of the Habs brass don't believe so. They're still in reset mode, since no major moves were made. Plus, a uber super draft is in preparation in 2020, in Montreal de surcroît.

Let KK grow. He won't do it if you play him 11 minutes a game. Kid is frustrated. He had fun last year. Let him have fun! You want to play Cousins and Weal on the PP instead of him? Then, you're the one who should be blamed. Not KK.