Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Part 13)

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The Great Weal

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You wanna say he's the third best player on the line, go ahead, but don't see he could barely skate because that was just not true.
It absolutely is true. He looks slow and weak. That could be due to confidence and injury as well, but he has looked really bad this season. It seems like you forgot how I am a huge KK fan too.
 

Mrb1p

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It absolutely is true. He looks slow and weak. That could be due to confidence and injury as well, but he has looked really bad this season. It seems like you forgot how I am a huge KK fan too.
It seems like you forgot how he looked for the first few games. It sounds like recency bias for sure. He's looked like crap for the last 8 games, so he's looked like crap all year. I can agree that he's looked lost ever since the Lighting game, but before that he looked good, he was driving the play and he had two goals and an assist in 6 games, not exactly gamebreaking production but decent enough.
 

The Great Weal

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It seems like you forgot how he looked for the first few games. It sounds like recency bias for sure. He's looked like crap for the last 8 games, so he's looked like crap all year. I can agree that he's looked lost ever since the Lighting game, but before that he looked good, he was driving the play and he had two goals and an assist in 6 games, not exactly gamebreaking production but decent enough.
He was better but still not that good. Drouin and Armia helped him out tremendously. When Suzuki struggled in the top 6 he got demoted to the 4th line and was excellent until he got his spot back in the top 6. KK has not done that whatsoever and if you think otherwise, then it just confirms that you aren't watching the games.
 
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Mrb1p

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He was better but still not that good. Drouin and Armia helped him out tremendously. When Suzuki struggled in the top 6 he got demoted to the 4th line and was excellent until he got his spot back in the top 6. KK has not done that whatsoever and if you think otherwise, then it just confirms that you aren't watching the games.
Suzuki was excellent on the fourth line ? You might be pushing it.

Its kinda crazy because both were mediocre for stretches and youre trying to make it sound like one was great all along. Its revisionist history.
 

TrapGod Jr

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Even though I liked what I saw of him on the PP(minus the missed opportunity) I’d send him in Laval, it can’t hurt him especially with the improved coaching staff and roster. At first last year I said keep him in Europe 1 year and I still think thats what they should have done.

He’ll bounce back no doubt

#GHG
 
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Naslundforever

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It seems like you forgot how he looked for the first few games. It sounds like recency bias for sure. He's looked like crap for the last 8 games, so he's looked like crap all year. I can agree that he's looked lost ever since the Lighting game, but before that he looked good, he was driving the play and he had two goals and an assist in 6 games, not exactly gamebreaking production but decent enough.
I have to agree he’s been a far cry from what we saw last year. We used to say the puck stuck to his stick, and he kept getting better. Other way around this year. Kk’s got time on his side, not worried though.
 
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Tighthead

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I like how everyone is saying Claude is a bad young player coach, a bad development coach and blablabla...

And yet Suzuki, Mete and Fleury are doing just fine right now.

You know, players have their fair share of responsibilities. They are literally paid millions to improve on themselves. Galchenyuk was a bust, because he never worked on his flaws (or couldn't), for the same reasons that Yakupov was a bust. I'm sick of hearing that we "ruined Galchenyuk", and that we're gonna ruin Kotkaniemi again. In the case of KK, his flaw is that he's not physically mature yet. He will certainly improve in this regard in the next few years. All scouting analysts expected him to be a long-term project, and it's exactly what he is.

If his flaw is physical maturity he should not be in the NHL and that is moronic development.
 
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salbutera

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Suzuki was excellent on the fourth line ? You might be pushing it.

Its kinda crazy because both were mediocre for stretches and youre trying to make it sound like one was great all along. Its revisionist history.
Suzuki felt his way for the first few games but was really good allowing for balanced 4-line scoring, Thompson hasn’t been nearly as noticeable offensively since Suzuki was moved up the lineup.
 
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Mrb1p

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Suzuki felt his way for the first few games but was really good allowing for balanced 4-line scoring, Thompson hasn’t been nearly as noticeable offensively since Suzuki was moved up the lineup.
Its true, he's been better and better, nobody is saying otherwise, the problem is acting like Suzuki was somehow better than Kotkaniemi for their first five or six games, he was not. He registered a single pass in his first seven games.

I'd also like to point out that Drouin and Armia have been noticeably worse ever since moved off from Kotkaniemis wings, even more so than Thompson. All the lines started stinkin' up once the KK line was broken. Domi stopped producing, Drouin stopped working, Armia stopped scoring and KK faltered. Julien tried to whip his kid, but it landed on the whole middle six. Now Suzuki and Domi seem to be doing better, luckily.

I wonder, I really wonder, what would happen of Kotkaniemi if he was not thrown under the bus in that game, if he was played more than 10 minutes a night and if he was not stripped of his wingers, if the best line on the team wasn't broken up at that point. I really wonder.

Even if you don't want to admit that KK was doing good, you must admit that no other line (Save the first line.) has done as good as that line had done in the first 6 games. Surely people can admit this was a mistake ?
 
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Mrb1p

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Even though I liked what I saw of him on the PP(minus the missed opportunity) I’d send him in Laval, it can’t hurt him especially with the improved coaching staff and roster. At first last year I said keep him in Europe 1 year and I still think thats what they should have done.

He’ll bounce back no doubt

#GHG
How are you so sure ? Will he bounce back as high as he could ? This determinism is tiring. Extrinsic factors are an important part of development, not every player can be PK Subban and rise up from the constant beating of Therrien to stardom. Some can't and some won't.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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Which is why Suzuki looks great with the same coach in charge and started out with the same caliber linemates. The difference is that Suzuki was great and played so well that he got a better role while KK has struggled immensely with bad linemates and often time looks like the worst player on his line. Kotkaniemi needs to get sent down.
Coaches have favourites. That's unfortunately the way it works with some of these guys.

KK played fantastic hockey last year until he was benched. Since then he's been a shadow of what he was. I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it now. Early this season KK made a boneheaded play and then was benched for a period and a half. Since then Suzuki has made several rookie mistakes and never really missed a shift because of it.

And what really confuses me is that KK is a strong TWO WAY player. It's not like he wasn't playing well defensively last year. At the time of his benching his numbers were incredibly good possession wise and there were a few whispers about him maybe getting into the Selke discussion. He played terrific hockey. Then we benched him and he's sucked since.

Same thing happened with Galchenyuk. He was playing great hockey but his coach wouldn't get out of his way. When he finally did, Chuck put up great points. Injuries then derailed him after a hot start the following year and he really never got another chance.

I don't know what KK did to piss of Clode. But the way we've used him makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

And btw, I love Suzuki. I hope we give him every chance to succeed. But there's no reason we shouldn't do the same for KK. We're just shooting ourselves in the foot with him.
 
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The Great Weal

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Coaches have favourites. That's unfortunately the way it works with some of these guys.
Ya of course, he loved Suzuki so much that he played him with Peca and Hudon in camp. Meanwhile he hates KK. It's never the players fault that he isn't good enough. Suzuki has been much better than KK this season, not even close. Suzuki also had his fair share of garbage linemates but the difference is that he did very well while KK struggled. There is no hidden conspiracy going on.
 

Kudo Shinichi

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Even though I liked what I saw of him on the PP(minus the missed opportunity) I’d send him in Laval, it can’t hurt him especially with the improved coaching staff and roster. At first last year I said keep him in Europe 1 year and I still think thats what they should have done.

He’ll bounce back no doubt

#GHG

Kotkaniemi had a good season last year.
He scored 34 pts in 79 games playing a new position (he played wing in liiga), while being the youngest player in the league, and not being physically nhl ready.
He scored around the same production as Svechnikov and Tkachuk who both were considered much more ready.

Keeping KK in the nhl last year was the correct choice (even if he faltered a bit towards the end)

He had a solid start this year with Drouin and Armia, and then he played with Lehkonen/Byron and struggled, and later on got injured. He's probably low on confidence right now, and its not because he played in the nhl last season.
 
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Mrb1p

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Ya of course, he loved Suzuki so much that he played him with Peca and Hudon in camp. Meanwhile he hates KK. It's never the players fault that he isn't good enough. Suzuki has been much better than KK this season, not even close. Suzuki also had his fair share of garbage linemates but the difference is that he did very well while KK struggled. There is no hidden conspiracy going on.

Suzuki got to play with like 20 players at camp, he even got 1C/2C one game. He was tried with Weal, Hudon, Domi, Drouin... both at centre and wing.

Meanwhile Kotkaniemi didn't get more than 3rd line minutes once in preseason and its funny because KK played with Armia, Byron, Cousins and Hudon up until the last game of pre-season where he got a sulking JD.

I mean, at some point you gotta stop.
 
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