Player Discussion Jeff Skinner

[GrierIsGod123]

I don't know what Kruger is waiting for. Put Skinner on Jacks wing and get him going. VO can probably produce on his own on line 2. Skinner is snakebit. How about putting him with Jack Ralph? Not a hard decision.

I truly think the better move is bringing Reinhart down to play with Skinner. You could put just about anyone on the RW on the top line, and VO and Eichel will still produce IMO.

 

[Chainshot]

Skinner is pretty simple..he draws guys to him so they shut him down.. until whoever is on his line scores. .. Maybe they find some chemistry without a trade but I don't see it..

he is still the same player..just not finding enough time and space to get confidence in his shot in front between the dots.. Forced outside ..

Maybe okposo and Larson fix him

He's missing wide when he is in tight. He's also hit a couple of posts and fumbled pucks in his usual areas around the front of the net. I don't see him being forced out of that area in the least.

 

[Snippit]

All of Skinner's individual even strength metrics are right in line with or above his career averages, including Goals/60, iCF, ixGF, iSCF, iHDCF, penalties drawn, etc. If there is one thing that's maybe a minor concern it's that his takeaways are slightly down from years past.

That being said, the dude is rocking a 0.989 on ice PDO, with his lowest offensive zone start percentage in 7 years, while skating around with a couple of traffic cones. He's been fine...

The guy was fed like 65 - 70 percent offensive zone starts for most of his career including last year.

His skewed deployment appears to have been a factor in his production

 

[Tatre]

The guy was fed like 65 - 70 percent offensive zone starts for most of his career including last year.

His skewed deployment appears to have been a factor in his production

I wouldn't put much stock in higher defensive zone starts, for him especially. He seems to start on-the-fly shifts as we move into attacking, and more than half the time he goes to the bench once the play moves into our zone. Which I don't have a problem with: they're using his strengths.

To me, this is a typical cold streak, and hopefully it ends before we fall out of wildcard position.

 

[Zman5778]

I truly think the better move is bringing Reinhart down to play with Skinner. You could put just about anyone on the RW on the top line, and VO and Eichel will still produce IMO.

I think this sounds kinda like a good idea.

Olofsson-Eichel-Vesey
Skinner-MoJo-Reinhart
Girgensons-Larsson-Okposo
someone-Asplund-someoneelse

God that fourth line.............

 

[Bendium]

During the first 15 games it seemed like he was taking 7-10 shots on goal every game. My wife likes him and noted he seemed to be going the Kane route working to get 10 shots per game and let his shooting percentage kick in. The last 15 games it feels like he is only getting 3 to 4 shots on goal per game. I don't have an answer why. Nagging injury? Conditioning not there? Line mate carousel has him discombobulated? Something happening in his personal life? Just dissatisfied with his role and working through the emotional toughness needed to perform? No matter what it is, I think it is the number one problem the Sabres management should be focused on right now. We need to consider the following:

9 year Career: Goals = 255 Assists = 205

I am not excusing Skinner, just noting that he got paid to be the top line left wing in a sniper/goalscorer role. He also got paid because he showed the ability over his entire career to score goals. He has more goals than assists lifetime which shows he is a goal finisher NOT a goal creator. Expecting him after 9 years of sniping, to suddenly be the guy driving his own line generating goals and points for others is going against the statistical evidence bigtime. You can make an argument that he is overpaid at 9 million if he is not a play driver, but that is not Jeff's fault.

Jeff is a goal finisher, his production will be affected by the ability of his line mates to be opportunity creators. When Jeff is happy his attitude is infectious. I would put him with Eichel and get his game and emotional positivity going again. If you really don't want to separate Jack and Victor then move Sam down so Jeff has two solid vets to play with and let them figure it out. As long as Jeff is expected to be something he is not, he will fail expectations.

 

[Snippit]

During the first 15 games it seemed like he was taking 7-10 shots on goal every game. My wife likes him and noted he seemed to be going the Kane route working to get 10 shots per game and let his shooting percentage kick in. The last 15 games it feels like he is only getting 3 to 4 shots on goal per game. I don't have an answer why. Nagging injury? Conditioning not there? Line mate carousel has him discombobulated? Something happening in his personal life? Just dissatisfied with his role and working through the emotional toughness needed to perform? No matter what it is, I think it is the number one problem the Sabres management should be focused on right now. We need to consider the following:

9 year Career: Goals = 255 Assists = 205

I am not excusing Skinner, just noting that he got paid to be the top line left wing in a sniper/goalscorer role. He also got paid because he showed the ability over his entire career to score goals. He has more goals than assists lifetime which shows he is a goal finisher NOT a goal creator. Expecting him after 9 years of sniping, to suddenly be the guy driving his own line generating goals and points for others is going against the statistical evidence bigtime. You can make an argument that he is overpaid at 9 million if he is not a play driver, but that is not Jeff's fault.

Jeff is a goal finisher, his production will be affected by the ability of his line mates to be opportunity creators. When Jeff is happy his attitude is infectious. I would put him with Eichel and get his game and emotional positivity going again. If you really don't want to separate Jack and Victor then move Sam down so Jeff has two solid vets to play with and let them figure it out. As long as Jeff is expected to be something he is not, he will fail expectations.

Again he produced 60+ points playing with Carolina third liners

He has proven he can drive a line in the past. For the money he makes he HAS to be capable of driving a line.

 

[Beerz]

Again he produced 60+ points playing with Carolina third liners

He has proven he can drive a line in the past. For the money he makes he HAS to be capable of driving a line.

Maybe we have different definitions of driving a line. I dont see him as a line driver.. He still needs to have his linemates do something in order for him to clean up the garbage. But he is very good at doing just that.

Right now the only line driver we have in my eyes is Eichel

 

[SharkInABoloTie]

No one has brought it up yet; Skinner's play behind the net has impressed me. He regularly deceives defenders and sets good plays to guys streaking to the net. Maybe he should switch with Reinhart on the PP so that he's back there, and Reinhart is doing his thing screening the goalie, tipping shots, and getting off quick shots.

In terms of his linemates, I'm at a loss. He needs to perform even when they aren't. I've been all for moving Sam down to his line as well so that he can have a successful distributor. I thought I had heard rumblings a couple seasons back that Sam had wanted to stay at wing, but honestly if that is the case, management/coaching needs to buck up and say "we drafted you as a center, it's time for you to play there."

Either way, the lack of optimization on this roster is baffling at times. Do something to make this team win other than crossing your fingers and praying. f***

 

[tatertot843]

Skinner will not be anymore than a 2nd to 3rd line player.

 

[Bendium]

Again he produced 60+ points playing with Carolina third liners

He has proven he can drive a line in the past. For the money he makes he HAS to be capable of driving a line.

His play in Carolina did not show he could drive a line in the past. What it showed, is that he is capable of generating opportunities for himself. Jack is the only other player we have that has showed he can do that. You clearly want Skinner to be a different player than he is. He will fail your expectation every night as long as you expect that.

Now, there is clearly room for a healthy debate about what qualities you want to pay 9 million for, but driving the total production of the line is not what they paid him for. They paid him to finish opportunities and put pucks in the net. His total production will always be tied to how well his line mates help create opportunities for him to finish.

 

[Snippit]

His play in Carolina did not show he could drive a line in the past. What it showed, is that he is capable of generating opportunities for himself. Jack is the only other player we have that has showed he can do that. You clearly want Skinner to be a different player than he is. He will fail your expectation every night as long as you expect that.

Now, there is clearly room for a healthy debate about what qualities you want to pay 9 million for, but driving the total production of the line is not what they paid him for. They paid him to finish opportunities and put pucks in the net. His total production will always be tied to how well his line mates help create opportunities for him to finish.

Again he played with Derek Ryan and put up 37 goals.

I’m not even saying he needs to replicate that away from Eichel. But he needs to be significantly better than he has been.

 

[jputt99]

I also think Reinhart should be taken off Eichel's line and be the second line right wing. I think Skinner will prove to be worth his contract, but not until they finish putting the top six together and his line is set to feed him as the sniper he is, just like the first line is doing for Olofsson. Right now we only have 5 top six forwards and one of them (Johansson) is playing out of his best position. Skinner needs more setup than he is getting from Johansson and whoever is randomly playing right wing. I personally think Reinhart is the best passer in the top six with Eichel being very good as well. On Eichel's line he plays a support role to Jack and Victor. On the second line with Skinner his full skillset would get used more and he would be able to drive production instead of defer to Jack on the line. If he wants a big contract next year, its is in the driving role where he will get the value, not picking up garbage points with Jack.

The left wing is set with both Skinner and Olofsson filling a similar sniper roles somewhat interchangeable on the first and second line. The right wing is also set with Johansson and Reinhart being somewhat interchangeable on the top two lines. The problem we have is not having a second line center. Johansson is filling in adequately, but is not in his best position.

There are two possible fixes as I see it. One long term and one short term.

1. The long term is to trade for a solid second line center. If that was easy it would be done already.
2. The short term is to trade for a first line right wing. A rental will do just fine here as it is short term, and buys you time to be patient in your 2C search.

Either way to get your money's worth out of Skinner you will have to either put him with Jack or fix the structure of the second line.

I completely agree . Johansson and Rhino should be moved to their natural positions . At least until the team gets a legit able 2C .

 

[Bendium]

Skinner’s 5 on 5 impact goes beyond points

There we go. This article answers almost every question in this thread.

 

[Snippit]

Skinner’s 5 on 5 impact goes beyond points

There we go. This article answers almost every question in this thread.

Looking at the names at the top of the list of 5v5 iXGF/60, I would truly question how valuable it is as a stat.

In any case we know Skinner has scored 5v5 goals this year. More than half of it was produced in the first 10 games.

What he has not done this year, is anything of note at any strength other than 5v5, or even posted a respectable number of 5v5 assists. Let’s not turn into Leaf fans and narrow the scope of evaluation by measuring a single stat.

 

[Fjordy]

If our idiot GM doesn't find him help, it could end badly.

 

[Bendium]

Looking at the names at the top of the list of 5v5 iXGF/60, I would truly question how valuable it is as a stat.

In any case we know Skinner has scored 5v5 goals this year. More than half of it was produced in the first 10 games.

What he has not done this year, is anything of note at any strength other than 5v5, or even posted a respectable number of 5v5 assists. Let’s not turn into Leaf fans and narrow the scope of evaluation by measuring a single stat.

I don't think I or the article are focusing on a single stat. The main point is that in areas where his usage has not changed, his production has not changed. Last year him and Jack were the focal points of the power play with Skinner getting set up with passes and rebounds down low. The PP this year functions very different, with the focus being Jack and Victor taking one timers. They rarely shoot from the point or pass directly into the interior two guys. Skinners roll on the PP has been more as a support passing pivot and collecting the missed shots off the boards to maintain possession. SO his PP scoring is down due to a role change. He is also clearly playing with lesser quality line mates this year. So this argument that he just is sucking this year just doesn't hold water against a reasonable analysis of the stats, usage, and supporting cast. Can he be more productive? Certainly, but not much more should be expected without a role change or line change.

 

[K8fool]

Again he played with Derek Ryan and put up 37 goals.

I’m not even saying he needs to replicate that away from Eichel. But he needs to be significantly better than he has been.

He needs at least one guy that is respected enough that he also draws guys to him and tkachuk type if you want to perfect the line .
Give me the usual sam plus w him or give me Johansson okposo w him in 2nd half of game.. Or

Braaainnsz ...tradeszzzzz... ...

I look way too much... Tradeszzzz. Fn hilarious

 

[Snippit]

I don't think I or the article are focusing on a single stat. The main point is that in areas where his usage has not changed, his production has not changed. Last year him and Jack were the focal points of the power play with Skinner getting set up with passes and rebounds down low. The PP this year functions very different, with the focus being Jack and Victor taking one timers. They rarely shoot from the point or pass directly into the interior two guys. Skinners roll on the PP has been more as a support passing pivot and collecting the missed shots off the boards to maintain possession. SO his PP scoring is down due to a role change. He is also clearly playing with lesser quality line mates this year. So this argument that he just is sucking this year just doesn't hold water against a reasonable analysis of the stats, usage, and supporting cast. Can he be more productive? Certainly, but not much more should be expected without a role change or line change.

He also just has been mediocre to bad on the PP, point blank. His puck skills aren't that great and he rarely looks threatening.

Again, he had produced with offensive black holes in Carolina - literally put up 37 goals with their 3C.

If this is what we should continue to expect for the rest of the season while he's off Eichel's line though, then maybe the "he needs Eichel" crowd had a point.

His play in the last 5 games in particular is not going to cut it.

 

[Bendium]

He also just has been mediocre to bad on the PP, point blank. His puck skills aren't that great and he rarely looks threatening.

Again, he had produced with offensive black holes in Carolina - literally put up 37 goals with their 3C.

If this is what we should continue to expect for the rest of the season while he's off Eichel's line though, then maybe the "he needs Eichel" crowd had a point.

His play in the last 5 games in particular is not going to cut it.

What would be your suggestion? Do you have an idea how to get more out of Skinner? Maybe a change in lines? a change in usage? Something else? Or are you just saying Skinner sucks to because that's a narrative you want to drive? If you believe he was successful in Carolina with terrible linemates, then why do you think he sucks here?

 

[Snippit]

What would be your suggestion? Do you have an idea how to get more out of Skinner? Maybe a change in lines? a change in usage? Something else? Or are you just saying Skinner sucks to because that's a narrative you want to drive? If you believe he was successful in Carolina with terrible linemates, then why do you think he sucks here?

This is what I think:

1) He has been disappointing this year, and that we should expect more out of him (and not lower our expectations) because he has shown he can produce without great line mates in the past.

2) He is not worth 9M, especially on 8 years, and in general it was a very bad contract for us.

3) There should absolutely be a change in lines to get him more help, but that doesn't mean he's absolved of responsibility until he has good line mates.

 

[HaNotsri]

Hope somebody gets him an alarm clock for christmas. Needs to wake up. Where's the agitating and flamboyant performance from last year?

 

[valet]

Skinner has not been good lately, kind of stumbling around the ice looking like he isn't sure where to go. I think we all knew he wasn't exactly a 'system' player when we acquired him, but the amount of complaining that people do about his linemates is getting absurd. It's not his linemates. It's Skinner trying to do too much. He needs to stop gripping the stick so hard and just get back to work, playing a simple game, making simple plays and just being around the net—where he's at his best.

I think, oddly, we're also underestimating the loss of Sobotka when considering his performance. As nothing of a player that Vlad was in the ozone, he did his job back on our end of the ice. With this rotating cast of RWs, I bet it's hard for him to find the consistency that he had earlier on in the year.

Anyways, I'm sure he'll get back on track sometime in our next run of games. He's too deadly in the dangerous areas. It's just a matter of time.

 

[Chainshot]

I thought yesterday may have been his best game in weeks. He was everywhere - including his own zone. Yes yes, it was Ottawa, but he was really buzzing.

 

[Drunkard]

Play him with Eichel and pump up his value, then sign him to big contract and take him off line.

Don’t play Kane with Eichel to lose his value and then trade him at depressed market conditions.

Play Reinhart with Eichel to boost his stats in a contract year instead of seeing if he can carry his own line.

Love my Sabres though

Olofsson as well. Both he and Reinhart are riding Eichel's coat tails to more points than they would have gotten without him and will almost assuredly get more money than they would have otherwise, just like Skinner did last year.