Player Discussion Jeff Skinner

[OkimLom]

Your comments here are exactly why I don't want to pay Reinhart a lot of money either.

He is another Sabre incapable of driving a line of offense by himself. And he's soft, and a bit of a floater to boot.

If you want to see point production drop, get Reinhart away from Eichel.

We haven't seen him under Ralph be able to drive any line, because he's been tied to Eichel all season and has never been tasked to do that. Last season, when Eichel was out, Reinhart and Skinner played well together and produced quite fine.

I do enjoy the mis-characterization of Reinhart being soft from fans, it makes me laugh and I appreciate the humor. He's plenty tough enough, he takes enough physical contact in front of the net and along the boards. Now, he's a guy that best suited in the open space not along the boards. He does not take hits sometimes (for some reason fans think it's a requirement that a guy has to take a hit 100% of the time). His game isn't what they are currently using him for; which is to be utilized along the boards for all his shift. He'll go into corners and fight for pucks, but he does wear down from the physical contact.

Give him center responsibilities. Give him is own line where HE is the guy and center piece (no pun intended) of his line. Let him skate in the middle of the ice more often and keep him physically fresh. Let him do what he does best, and collect the puck from a crowd of guys and make plays either transitioning up the ice or moving the puck in the offensive zone.

 

[Fezzy126]

All of Skinner's individual even strength metrics are right in line with or above his career averages, including Goals/60, iCF, ixGF, iSCF, iHDCF, penalties drawn, etc. If there is one thing that's maybe a minor concern it's that his takeaways are slightly down from years past.

That being said, the dude is rocking a 0.989 on ice PDO, with his lowest offensive zone start percentage in 7 years, while skating around with a couple of traffic cones. He's been fine...

 

[old kummelweck]

But he can't until at least next season, because Jeff Skinner left him no money to. So this is a year to see what Jeff Skinner can do driving his own line.

You're blaming Skinner for the cap issue?

 

[joshjull]

We haven't seen him under Ralph be able to drive any line, because he's been tied to Eichel all season and has never been tasked to do that. Last season, when Eichel was out, Reinhart and Skinner played well together and produced quite fine.

I do enjoy the mis-characterization of Reinhart being soft from fans, it makes me laugh and I appreciate the humor. He's plenty tough enough, he takes enough physical contact in front of the net and along the boards. Now, he's a guy that best suited in the open space not along the boards. He does not take hits sometimes (for some reason fans think it's a requirement that a guy has to take a hit 100% of the time). His game isn't what they are currently using him for; which is to be utilized along the boards for all his shift. He'll go into corners and fight for pucks, but he does wear down from the physical contact.

Give him center responsibilities. Give him is own line where HE is the guy and center piece (no pun intended) of his line. Let him skate in the middle of the ice more often and keep him physically fresh. Let him do what he does best, and collect the puck from a crowd of guys and make plays either transitioning up the ice or moving the puck in the offensive zone.

Sam hasn't been that guy for some time now. He rarely even engages physically in 1 on 1 battles for the puck. Its mostly stick waving. What makes it supremely frustrating is he can do way better and has, as you've noted. I think moving away him from Jack would resurrect that part of his game and make him more assertive. He seems to be deferring all the time to Jack.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Play him with Eichel and pump up his value, then sign him to big contract and take him off line.

Don’t play Kane with Eichel to lose his value and then trade him at depressed market conditions.

Play Reinhart with Eichel to boost his stats in a contract year instead of seeing if he can carry his own line.

Love my Sabres though

 

[OkimLom]

Sam hasn't been that guy for some time now. He rarely even engages physically in 1 on 1 battles for the puck. Its mostly stick waving. What makes it supremely frustrating is he can do way better and has, as you've noted. I think moving away him from Jack would resurrect that part of his game and make him more assertive. He seems to be deferring all the time to Jack.

This probably can be moved to roster speculation

He looks like a player that is just done with being a winger. Someone as smart and capable as Sam is, his ability just doesn't just go away. It's a stark difference from last year. He went to BEING the man in Juniors, and a guy counted on for important game situations for Team Canada, to being the guy with Jack.

This organization's shoehorning is negatively affecting a good player's play, and not only that but it limits what your coach can do and the potential of your team. IMO, Ralph and Botterill has not done enough with this team, to take their player analysis, their evaluations on players, as gospel. There's plenty of room to question if they actually know what they are doing and seeing with these guys.

Give him Skinner and Asplund, and give them favorable minutes. Let them feast on teams.

At least try and build 3 lines with roles and skill:

Oloffson-Eichel-Vesey/Sheary
Skinner-Reinhart-Asplund
Girgensons-Larsson-Okposo

 

[joshjull]

This probably can be moved to roster speculation

He looks like a player that is just done with being a winger. Someone as smart and capable as Sam is, his ability just doesn't just go away. It's a stark difference from last year. He went to BEING the man in Juniors, and a guy counted on for important game situations for Team Canada, to being the guy with Jack.

This organization's shoehorning is negatively affecting a good player's play, and not only that but it limits what your coach can do and the potential of your team. IMO, Ralph and Botterill has not done enough with this team, to take their player analysis, their evaluations on players, as gospel. There's plenty of room to question if they actually know what they are doing and seeing with these guys.

Give him Skinner and Asplund, and give them favorable minutes. Let them feast on teams.

At least try and build 3 lines with roles and skill:

Oloffson-Eichel-Vesey/Sheary
Skinner-Reinhart-Asplund
Girgensons-Larsson-Okposo

You're preaching to choir when it comes to trying Sam at center. But I'm obviously not expecting that to happen.

 

[OkimLom]

You're preaching to choir when it comes to trying Sam at center. But I'm obviously not expecting that to happen.

Yeah, I think we both have the receipts on that wish.

Under this management, I don't see it happening.

 

[Bendium]

Yeah, I think we both have the receipts on that wish.

Under this management, I don't see it happening.

I think we need to consider that if Sam had both the skillset and the desire to play center that he would already be there fixing the organizations #1 problem. I think him and his agent have determined he will have more success, and therefor be more likely to get paid, by racking up points as a winger than being exposed as a center. I don't think this is just some blind hard headed management decision.

In keeping with the Skinner thread, I do agree with others that Jeff is doing as well as expected given his supporting cast. I think Reinhart playing on the second line with Skinner would help both.

 

[mechaworm]

I think we need to consider that if Sam had both the skillset and the desire to play center that he would already be there fixing the organizations #1 problem. I think him and his agent have determined he will have more success, and therefor be more likely to get paid, by racking up points as a winger than being exposed as a center. I don't think this is just some blind hard headed management decision.

In keeping with the Skinner thread, I do agree with others that Jeff is doing as well as expected given his supporting cast. I think Reinhart playing on the second line with Skinner would help both.

There's no universe in which Sam is refusing a coach's request at any point because he wants to get points and dollars with Jack. This is 100% coaching/management's decision.

Personally, I think it was probably the wrong decision 4 years ago, and the right decision by now. You spend 5 years developing to play a new position, who the hell cares what position you played in junior anymore. Players change.

 

[OkimLom]

I think we need to consider that if Sam had both the skillset and the desire to play center that he would already be there fixing the organizations #1 problem. I think him and his agent have determined he will have more success, and therefor be more likely to get paid, by racking up points as a winger than being exposed as a center. I don't think this is just some blind hard headed management decision.

That's...an interesting take to say the least.

You mean you don't believe the hard headed management that waited a while to make the right call and finally decided sending down Tage Thompson was best for the player after watching him struggle? Or Mittelstadt? Or the hard headed management team that PUBLICLY came out, before there were any games played under Ralph, and said they believe Reinhart is a guy who can create from the wing? Or the management team that has NOW gone through two years of building a roster that led to 2 guys (Beaulieu and Bogosian) that have requested trade requests because of the amount of bodies they piled up on defense, which has kept younger, better players from being called up while icing a forward core that AHL teams would call for an improvement on?

But you want to believe that his agent and Sam himself are going rogue against the team and forcing Buffalo's coaching staff and management's hand in playing him at the wing? How exactly are they enforcing this?

I'm going to stick with this being an incompetent coaching staff and management misusing the player, until they can show otherwise, they know what the heck they are doing.

 

[OkimLom]

Personally, I think it was probably the wrong decision 4 years ago, and the right decision by now. You spend 5 years developing to play a new position, who the hell cares what position you played in junior anymore. Players change.

It's called development. Plenty of centers started their careers on the wing, and later were switched to center. Not to mention, Sam's strengths are best suited to be utilized at the center position more than the wing. It doesn't fit all, but it fits Sam.

 

[Fjordy]

So far he doesn't look very good, he needs help.

 

[Bendium]

But you want to believe that his agent and Sam himself are going rogue against the team and forcing Buffalo's coaching staff and management's hand in playing him at the wing? How exactly are they enforcing this?

I am not saying that at all. I am not suggesting it is forced. I am suggesting that both the Sabres management AND Sam and his agent feel the best place for him to have a productive career is at wing and not center. There is no conflict. I think if either strongly felt he could work out at center then we would see it being tried, especially by Ralph who has a huge hole in the middle of his lineup.

 

[mechaworm]

It's called development. Plenty of centers started their careers on the wing, and later were switched to center. Not to mention, Sam's strengths are best suited to be utilized at the center position more than the wing. It doesn't fit all, but it fits Sam.

I was you a couple years ago. I'm in complete agreement about Sam's skillset at 18. I think it was dumb what the franchise did with him.

But now he's 24 and has never developed at center. I'm sure some guys play their rookie year in a less demanding role, of course. And I'm not against giving Sam a shot at C and seeing what happens, same of Johansson, same as anybody on the roster when you're in a pinch.

But I think it's naive to think Sam has been prepared or groomed to play that role, or assume that he's going to succeed based on the player he was in junior. Sam at 24 is much better player than Sam at 18, and all of that growth has been on the wing. I don't think he's any better prepared to leap into the center position today than any of our other forwards.

 

[OkimLom]

I am not saying that at all. I am not suggesting it is forced. I am suggesting that both the Sabres management AND Sam and his agent feel the best place for him to have a productive career is at wing and not center. There is no conflict. I think if either strongly felt he could work out at center then we would see it being tried, especially by Ralph who has a huge hole in the middle of his lineup.

If management and coaching staff are worried about individual performance over team performance, they need to be fired asap.

It would not do any good for Buffalo policy in terms of contract, to play him with Eichel. It would inflate his numbers, it would inflate his value and create issues that you are seeing Toronto.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I am not saying that at all. I am not suggesting it is forced. I am suggesting that both the Sabres management AND Sam and his agent feel the best place for him to have a productive career is at wing and not center. There is no conflict. I think if either strongly felt he could work out at center then we would see it being tried, especially by Ralph who has a huge hole in the middle of his lineup.

Reinhart can’t play centre — he’s to six winger if he plays wing with Eichel. If he could play centre at all, he’d be there. That’s the biggest weakness on team.

Nothing rogue going on here. Reinhart and his agent are more than likely thrilled to be collecting points on Eichel’s wing — he’s not getting paid less than $7.5 M and will probably go to $8.5 M if it’s longer term.

My issue is he’s too secondary at that price plus his game has softened. He looks for taps to the side of front of net as opposed to really being a screen. He’s insanely weak on sidewall game after game and puck never leaves zone when he’s aboht to be checked. He’s the master of the saucer pass when he’s got space, I’ll say that.

The long term killer will be his skating. He’s not fast now and he’ll slow.

Sabres are boxed in with this guy because it’s Eichel’s buddy and Jack is raised himself to top 5 NHL player level. He’s not going to be pissed off.

My hope is shorter term deal for Reinhart again

 

[K8fool]

Skinner is pretty simple..he draws guys to him so they shut him down.. until whoever is on his line scores. .. Maybe they find some chemistry without a trade but I don't see it..

he is still the same player..just not finding enough time and space to get confidence in his shot in front between the dots.. Forced outside ..

Maybe okposo and Larson fix him

 

[Buffaloed]

Eichel is playing a shade under 22 min/game. He should be able to push that to 27-30 mins. Back in the days of yore it was common to double shift your top players. We could also bump Larsson's ice time up and double shift him too.

 

[Buffaloed]

Dylan F-ing Cozens may never arrive. I don't think Mittelstadt will either. Hell, he has already come and gone!

It's always "next year" with these guys, waiting for their own picks to mature into something more than what they are.

But we are still in a bind. It's not like teams are out there just giving away 2C Conn Smythe winners for nothing!

Oh wait...goddamnit!

It's a situation where the Sabres are in a perpetual state of preparing to get ready to do something.

 

[Paxon]

It's a situation where the Sabres are in a perpetual state of preparing to get ready to do something.

 

[jc17]

While I'll be the first to say acquiring a top 6 forward isn't usually easy, and that forced moves are a bad idea, I agree that waiting for mitts or cozens to be the person skinner relies on is an awful idea

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I do enjoy the mis-characterization of Reinhart being soft from fans, it makes me laugh and I appreciate the humor. He's plenty tough enough, he takes enough physical contact in front of the net and along the boards. Now, he's a guy that best suited in the open space not along the boards. He does not take hits sometimes (for some reason fans think it's a requirement that a guy has to take a hit 100% of the time).

Can't even count number of times he loses puck because he won't get hit. In front of net? No, side of net, looking for deflects which he is good at.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Eichel is playing a shade under 22 min/game. He should be able to push that to 27-30 mins. Back in the days of yore it was common to double shift your top players.

Funny

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

I don't know what Kruger is waiting for. Put Skinner on Jacks wing and get him going. VO can probably produce on his own on line 2. Skinner is snakebit. How about putting him with Jack Ralph? Not a hard decision.