Player Discussion Jeff Skinner

[Sabresfansince1980]

I can imagine that even if the staff sees Skinner as a better fit with Reinhart (which I doubt because of the defensive role of a Reinhart line), or Mittelstadt (which I agree as an offense only line), they still might force him with Eichel just to motivate him to re-sign.

 

[Fezzy126]

From what I read by people who watch Canes hockey a lot Skinner is a puck hog, which makes him a poor fit for Eichel, a better fit for Reinhart. People say he had inferior linemates but maybe that's because his coaches realized he's a one man show like Evander Kane. He could be a scoring 3rd line unto himself.

While I agree with this line of thinking in principle, I will say there are plenty of examples of individual "puck hogs" that gel when together; Kane/Panarin, Benn/Seguin, Getzlaf/Perry, etc.

Perhaps LA's most successful offensive line of the past few years included two north-south shooters (Carter, Toffoli) and Pearson. On paper few would predict those 3 players gelling with each other.

It's impossible to predict line chemistry until they get on the ice.

 

[OkimLom]

Not even really true at all. But ok.

Stop wishing every star offensive talent was Michael Peca. Every player has offensive flaws, every player has defensive ones.

Oh stop with that Hyperbolic crap. We're not asking him to be Michael Peca, we're not asking for Selke level defense, we're asking for a competent defensive game. Skinner doesn't have that. On a scale of 1 to 10, I'm asking the guy that is a 3-4 to be at a 6 or 7, especially if you expect him to have high amount of ice time every night. If I'm game planning on putting my best offensive players to be out there 19-20+ minutes a night, I'm expecting him to be able to defend at a competent level. Skinner in his time in Carolina has not shown that.

 

[OkimLom]

Is anyone feeling they'll be happier if they flip him, than if he signs what I fear will be an unfavorable contract.

Based on the recent history of Botts trading players...most likely not.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Dingo44]

Based on the recent history of Botts trading players...most likely not.

The most recent trade is the Skinner trade.

 

[Dreakon13]

I have a feeling mid-to-high end players just aren't going for the amazing hauls people think.

Due to this, I wouldn't expect a great return for Skinner at the deadline. And that's not necessarily Botts fault. It's a buyers market. If we're buying players for cheap, it's because they're selling for cheap. I'm leaning on the side of hoping Skinner kills it in our top 6 and we sign him to a decent deal.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

The most recent trade is the Skinner trade.

Botterill’s ability to acquire devalued players has had no correlation with his ability to get an adequate return while selling talent.

 

[haseoke39]

I have a feeling mid-to-high end players just aren't going for the amazing hauls people think.

Due to this, I wouldn't expect a great return for Skinner at the deadline. And that's not necessarily Botts fault. It's a buyers market. If we're buying players for cheap, it's because they're selling for cheap. I'm leaning on the side of hoping Skinner kills it in our top 6 and we sign him to a decent deal.

Two seconds and we're out of the red, IMHO. A little less than we paid, but you get some use from Skinner.

 

[Dreakon13]

Two seconds and we're out of the red, IMHO. A little less than we paid, but you get some use from Skinner.

I mean, if Skinner doesn't really work out... that's probably a realistic expectation for flipping him. Would rather get something than nothing.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Based on the recent history of Botts trading players...most likely not.

Only trade I dislike at the moment is O'Reilly. What "players" do you mean?

 

[Dreakon13]

Only trade I dislike at the moment is O'Reilly. What "players" do you mean?

Probably referring mostly to the Kane and ROR trades. Both which were us selling the best players in the deal (as would likely be the case in a Skinner deadline flip) for pretty underwhelming returns. In Kanes case, at the time of the deal at least since the 1st was conditional.

 

[haseoke39]

I mean, if Skinner doesn't really work out... that's probably a realistic expectation for flipping him. Would rather get something than nothing.

If Skinner walks, this turns into a bad deal. If Skinner resigns for a terrible contract -- eh, we'll all have to debate what terrible is.

I queried earlier without much response. I see Skinner as a 25-25-50 guy with high end skills but not great in his own end. Clearly improves a team desperate for offense, but what is that worth in a long term contract. And how do you approach that knowing we have to keep room for Dahlin, maybe Mittelstadt will be another expensive deal.

I think everyone would love to see an extension at some level, but most are apprehensive about the 7M level he's likely to command in UFA.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Probably referring mostly to the Kane and ROR trades. Both which were us selling higher regarded players for pretty underwhelming returns.

Kane trade worked out fine. As it happened it looked bad, but a 1st and a prospect was the minimal return expected.

I thought O'Reilly would bring in a bigger piece, but then again it's wait and see. St. Louis GM said Thompson was the player Botterill wanted. Maybe he liked his fit with our centers.

 

[Dingo44]

Botterill’s ability to acquire devalued players has had no correlation with his ability to get an adequate return while selling talent.

Guy got a first, fourth, and O'Regan for Kane. And before you throw in the conditional first, I didn't see Carolina getting a conditional first from us if Skinner resigns.

Unless Skinner gets hurt or somehow the wheels fall off at 26, there is no way he doesn't return more than for what we got for Kane if we trade him at the deadline. He'll be in a top six role with either Eichel, Mittelstadt, or Reinhart at center and he'll be on the power play.

But Debbie Downer gotta Debbie Down.

 

[Paxon]

Guy got a first, fourth, and O'Regan for Kane. And before you throw in the conditional first, I didn't see Carolina getting a conditional first from us if Skinner resigns.

Unless Skinner gets hurt or somehow the wheels fall off at 26, there is no way he doesn't return more than for what we got for Kane if we trade him at the deadline. He'll be in a top six role with either Eichel, Mittelstadt, or Reinhart at center and he'll be on the power play.

But Debbie Downer gotta Debbie Down.

How can you say there is no way? Deadline markets are different every year.

 

[Dingo44]

How can you say there is no way? Deadline markets are different every year.

I'm saying there is no way. Mark it. Though I'm hoping he really fits in with our top six and puts up the numbers and they resign him.

 

[Duddy]

Not to mention Skinner still has his NMC, so he can have a say in whatever trade there is.

Lowers his value as well

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Guy got a first, fourth, and O'Regan for Kane. And before you throw in the conditional first, I didn't see Carolina getting a conditional first from us if Skinner resigns.

Unless Skinner gets hurt or somehow the wheels fall off at 26, there is no way he doesn't return more than for what we got for Kane if we trade him at the deadline. He'll be in a top six role with either Eichel, Mittelstadt, or Reinhart at center and he'll be on the power play.

But Debbie Downer gotta Debbie Down.

If only “Kane was at the bottom of the market and still returned more than we paid for Skinner” was your argument the whole time, instead of “Botts got Skinner for cheap so he’s good at all aspects of trading.”

Even though the Scandella and Sheary deals meant zilch for the Kane and O’Reilly returns.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Not to mention Skinner still has his NMC, so he can have a say in whatever trade there is.

Lowers his value as well

Not sure a NMC will factor in much. He'll waive for a 3 month run at a cup.

I don't think we ever get there though. Skinner should be extended. He wanted to be close to Toronto. We're likely to sign him IMO.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

This is a really interesting trade for me because while I like the cost of acquisition, the outcome for the Sabres is dependent on all the areas of the team I’m lowest on.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Exciting times for Sabres fans. Botterill has done a great job thus far this summer.

 

[sabremike]

Kane trade worked out fine. As it happened it looked bad, but a 1st and a prospect was the minimal return expected.

I thought O'Reilly would bring in a bigger piece, but then again it's wait and see. St. Louis GM said Thompson was the player Botterill wanted. Maybe he liked his fit with our centers.

That last part is both interesting and worries me. Of the prospects we could've gotten back from them he was on paper the worst and the one they were most willing to give up by far. The idea of a GM feeling he is smarter than everybody in the room and can see something nobody else can could be a good thing if he is right, but if he is wrong and outsmarted himself that is very bad. I just have very bad flashbacks to when the Mets thought they had a guaranteed way to fix Octavio Zambrano and gave up a ton to acquire him and it ended up being a disaster. Time will tell I guess.

 

[Sabre the Win]

I am hoping he takes a bit of discount to be so close to home with Buffalo.

Where else would he go? Toronto cant afford him and doesnt need him. Montreal has no centers and is relying on their pick from the draft. Ottawa is a mess and Detroit will need to rebuild soon.

Chicago is somewhat closer but out of the time zone. We are literally his best choice for being close to home.

I guess Rangers are close but New York City to Toronto is like a 12 hour drive compared to a 2 hour drive from Buffalo to Toronto.

 

[haseoke39]

St. Louis GM said Thompson was the player Botterill wanted. Maybe he liked his fit with our centers.

I don't think that's accurate. Not to the extent that he preferred Thompson over another given prospect.