Proposal: Jeff Skinner/Cam Ward

[Curufinwe]

Skinner and Ward are both worth more then our slop

I don't think Ward is worth very much. He might not even be claimed if he was put on waivers.

 

[geehaad]

he's scored more goals than Simmonds over the past 2 years and that's the offer?

Skinner Simmonds is worth a mid-to-late 1st, solid B prospect, and another piece like a 3rd.

How's that sound?

 

[Rebels57]

Maybe sarcasm. Pretty much made the same offer as the OP.

Skinner has more trade value than Simmonds.

It wasn't. I was just going off of the 2018 Draft because our 2017 is too valuable and Skinner will only have 1 year left on his contract at that point instead of 2.

2018 1st (15-20 hopefully)
Mikhail Vorobyov
3rd or equivalent valued prospect

That's all I would be comfortable offering. I'm not saying Carolina would take that though.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

How's that sound?

Like one is paid $6M and has 4+ concussions and the other is paid almost half without any injury risk.

 

[geehaad]

Only 5 players scored more goals than Skinner, and a reasonable offer is a few "maybe will play in the NHL"s.

 

[Tripod]

Not an option. He's pissed about the timeshare and wants a long term deal. Makes no sense to resign from either team or player perspective.

Honestly, why SHOULDN'T Mason want a long term deal?

He agreed to a paycut of $1.4 million and took the prove it deal with Philly
He had a good year and signed for 3 years at 4.1 million
He then had 2 good years, and 1 bad year.
So 3 out of 4 years, he has been worth his money.

He SHOULD get about $4.5 million for 3-4 year deal, but the bad year in the contract year will negate that.

And personally, I would rather sign him who is a legit starter to a 3 year deal and then let the others fight it out to see who can overtake him.

But instead, I see us signing a lesser goalie to a cheaper deal. Bernier seems to be the goalie with a connection to Hex and the goalie coach. So would not surprise me with a 2 year deal for $3.33 mill per year.

 

[Rebels57]

How's that sound?

Would an A prospect like Rubstov make it closer in terms of value in your opinion?

Players always get traded for less than their perceived value on HFBoards.

Look at the Kessel trade for example..it's a decent comparable although I believe he was 27 at the time.

Kessel, Tyler Biggs, Tim Erixon and 2nd in 2016 for Kapanen, Harrington, Spaling, 1st and 3rd picks in 2016. TOR retains $1.25M/year.

So basically Toronto got an B+ prospect in Kapanen, a late 1st, downgraded their 2nd to a 3rd, and two throw-ins that are no longer in the NHL.

 

[whitstifier]

I believe that Skinner was tied for 2nd in the NHL in ES goals. Below Matthews and tied with Laine, Marchand and Tarasenko. If anything, he's underpaid...

 

[whitstifier]

Like one is paid $6M and has 4+ concussions and the other is paid almost half without any injury risk.

Would an A prospect like Rubstov make it closer in terms of value in your opinion?

Players always get traded for less than their perceived value on HFBoards.

Look at the Kessel trade for example..it's a decent comparable although I believe he was 27 at the time.

Kessel, Tyler Biggs, Tim Erixon and 2nd in 2016 for Kapanen, Harrington, Spaling, 1st and 3rd picks in 2016. TOR retains $1.25M/year.

So basically Toronto got an B+ prospect in Kapanen, a late 1st, downgraded their 2nd to a 3rd, and two throw-ins that are no longer in the NHL.

Kessel's contract makes this a bad comparison

 

[TheBlackFish]

Only 5 players scored more goals than Skinner, and a reasonable offer is a few "maybe will play in the NHL"s.

Look at the Phil Kessel trade. Give your analysis of what Skinner is worth if you are Carolina. I guess letting him walk in two years makes more sense then adding A/B prospects. Rubstov is not "slop".

When he gets traded as a rental next year Rubstov, Laughton, Cousins, and Madsen will be more than they actually get. Wait and see

 

[geehaad]

I guess letting him walk in two years makes more sense then adding A/B prospects. Rubstov is not "slop".

When he gets traded as a rental next year Rubstov, Laughton, Cousins, and Madsen will be more than they actually get. Wait and see

Walk? Skinner isn't going anywhere other than the playoffs.

 

[TheBlackFish]

Walk? Skinner isn't going anywhere other than the playoffs.

I suppose you're right. He can just buy playoff tickets over the next two years to watch other teams play and pass the time until free agency

 

[Curufinwe]

Kessel's contract makes this a bad comparison

Yeah, Kessel had a lot of years left at $8m and the Leafs were looking to get out from under it.

Carolina aren't looking to get out from two more years of Skinner at $5.725m. Right now they're patting themselves on the back for not selling low when he only had 31 points in 14-15.

 

[Rebels57]

Yeah, Kessel had a lot of years left at $8m and the Leafs were looking to get out from under it.

Carolina aren't looking to get out from two more years of Skinner at $5.725m. Right now they're patting themselves on the back for not selling low when he only had 31 points in 14-15.

Definitely agree with this.

No reason for Carolina to even look to trade him at the moment.

This is all just hypothetical discussion.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

The logical trade comparable for Skinner is Bobby Ryan circa 2013. Ryan, with 2 years of term left on his contract, returned a very good prospect (Silfverberg), a good prospect (Noesen) and a 1st (unprotected.)

With that being said, there’s absolutely no motivation whatsoever to trade Skinner for fair value right now. Skinner still has 2 years of term left on his deal, so his contractual status is not an issue. Carolina isn’t cap strapped or facing any kind of budget crunch. Most importantly, the Canes are looking to come out of the rebuild, not set it back a couple of years.

 

[Rebels57]

The logical trade comparable for Skinner is Bobby Ryan circa 2013. Ryan, with 2 years of term left on his contract, returned a very good prospect (Silfverberg), a good prospect (Noesen) and a 1st (unprotected.)

With that being said, there’s absolutely no motivation whatsoever to trade Skinner for fair value right now. Skinner still has 2 years of term left on his deal, so his contractual status is not an issue. Carolina isn’t cap strapped or facing any kind of budget crunch. Most importantly, the Canes are looking to come out of the rebuild, not set it back a couple of years.

Good assessment. I underrated my value proposition. Noesens value at the time of the trade was probably a 2nd round pick. He was a 1st that had a good Draft +1 and then regressed in his Draft +2 prior to the trade.

So 1st, 2nd, Vorobyov is probably a fair offer in terms of value.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Cam Ward is incredibly terrible. He doesn't address a need, he makes it worse.

 

[BrindAmours Army]

Fill in the blank. The two biggest needs filled are once.

Flyers:
Jeff Skinner (the scoring help needed, albeit possibly a 2 yr rental)
Cam Ward (cap dump/the goalie to start for 1 more yr while Stolarz/Lyons/Hart/Sandstrom battle for who gets the spot in 2018)

Hurricanes:
_____________. < German Rubstov? Travis Sanheim? 1st rounder?
Nick cousins (no room but can be solid mid 6 if given ice time to develop. Young enough to fit rebuild)
Merrick Madsen (also no room but solid G prospect that won't sign after college because of the flyers depth)
Matt Read (cap dump)

Scott Laughton is probably an underpayment while German Rubstov is an overpayment. Depends on value of Skinner after a good year following many inconsistent injury filled years. With Rubstov Amac probably gets them in so they can resign Skinner. Good for both teams situations given Carolina won't be competitive over the remainder of Skinner's contract (2 yrs then UFA). Flyers get something for assets that aren't apart of the future -(Laughton/Cousins/Madsen anyway)

This isn't even the typical two dimes and a nickel for your quarter type of trade that pops up on here. This is a "take my four nickels for your half dollar" kinda trade. The Hurricanes need help scoring. Trading their top scorer is not going to help with that.

And who says Carolina won't be competitive for the remainder of Skinner's contract? Francis took care of one of our biggest needs by signing Darling. At this point we need a 1C and a top 6 RW, and Aho may be the 1C in a year or two.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Not an option. He's pissed about the timeshare and wants a long term deal. Makes no sense to resign from either team or player perspective.

You do not know what you're talking about sir.

The first part is not factual and totally opinion-based, and the second part is just wrong.

 

[TheBlackFish]

And who says Carolina won't be competitive for the remainder of Skinner's contract? Francis took care of one of our biggest needs by signing Darling. At this point we need a 1C and a top 6 RW, and Aho may be the 1C in a year or two.

I didn't think the Canes were that close to completing their rebuild but maybe the dominance of the metro teams has overshadowed their progress. Dealing him makes no sense if the Canes think they are a playoff team. I don't see that regardless looking there roster and at the teams ahead of them

 

[TheBlackFish]

You do not know what you're talking about sir.

The first part is not factual and totally opinion-based, and the second part is just wrong.

If by opinion based you mean Mason's opinion then yes. Watch his interviews from the past year. He's not shy about being upset about the goalie management and not defining their roles. The long term contract assumption is definitely my opinion. Who wants a short term deal in their prime. His body of work is probably good enough for something like 5 years, 4.5m. Flyers shouldn't do that with all their goalie prospects. The pieces just don't fit. Time will tell though.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think you're reading way too deeply into interviews and seeing what you want to see.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I think you're reading way too deeply into interviews and seeing what you want to see.

Bingo

 

[The Madrigal]

Maybe sarcasm. Pretty much made the same offer as the OP.

Skinner has more trade value than Simmonds.

That is EXTREMELY debatable.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

The logical trade comparable for Skinner is Bobby Ryan circa 2013. Ryan, with 2 years of term left on his contract, returned a very good prospect (Silfverberg), a good prospect (Noesen) and a 1st (unprotected.)

With that being said, there’s absolutely no motivation whatsoever to trade Skinner for fair value right now. Skinner still has 2 years of term left on his deal, so his contractual status is not an issue. Carolina isn’t cap strapped or facing any kind of budget crunch. Most importantly, the Canes are looking to come out of the rebuild, not set it back a couple of years.

Good post, and I agree with you. This doesn't work for either side, and was probably prompted in some way by the World Championships, which is understandable. Nevertheless, as The Stiz said, let's both just stay the course and begin our decade-long fight for dominance in the East. It would be nice if the coaching weren't a mismatch in Carolina's favor, but maybe we'll luck out with our next hire.