Player Discussion Jeff Gorton

[SnowblindNYR]

Lets leave aside the McDonagh argument because I just don't agree, but what particularly am I sleeping on about Howden and Hajek? Are they sure thing impact guys? Howden is a sure-thing top 6 forward? Hajek is a sure-thing top 4 D? Thats before we even get into a discussion about whether they can be 1st liners/top pair d. I think the answer is no.

With Sergachyov, you are getting a 1st pair defenseman. The kid is 19 and put up 40 points playing 15 minutes per game. Some of that is playing for the Bolts, but part of it is that he has a good offensive skill-set and is already showing it in the NHL. He also is big, physical and good defensively. He wasn't required to play big minutes for Tampa's D this season due to their depth, but he hasn't been a defensive liability this season, and for a 19 year old D in the NHL thats very impressive.

Why in the f*** would the Lightning deal a 19 year old 1st pairing guy that put up 40 points for an often injured 29 year old first pairing guy, who has been regressing? This is madness.

 

[Irishguy42]

Or wait 'til the draft when more than half the league might be interested in bidding for his services and see if you can get more? But at the end of the day, Gorton was satisfied. I'm assuming he did his research. That's what the market dictated. It is what it is.

The thing is, I think if you're waiting until the draft, teams might be more hesitant to trade the picks for said draft than they would be at the TDL.

But then again, what do I know? Stepan was traded basically right before the draft and got back 7OA.



Maybe they felt that McDonagh was worth more now with two Cup runs worth of value than with one. Miller will be an RFA, so his value was probably greater than if he had an extension already.

Not sure.

 

[Riche16]

With Sergachyov, you are getting a 1st pair defenseman. The kid is 19 and put up 40 points playing 15 minutes per game. Some of that is playing for the Bolts, but part of it is that he has a good offensive skill-set and is already showing it in the NHL. He also is big, physical and good defensively. He wasn't required to play big minutes for Tampa's D this season due to their depth, but he hasn't been a defensive liability this season, and for a 19 year old D in the NHL thats very impressive.

But... he wasn't available... so... I'm not sure what the issue is?

Yzerman is a very good & frugal GM.

I wouldn't wanna deal with him anymore... he's that good.

 

[Thirty One]

Lets leave aside the McDonagh argument because I just don't agree, but what particularly am I sleeping on about Howden and Hajek? Are they sure thing impact guys? Howden is a sure-thing top 6 forward? Hajek is a sure-thing top 4 D? Thats before we even get into a discussion about whether they can be 1st liners/top pair d. I think the answer is no.

How many sure thing top 6 fwd/top 4 D do you think exist outside the NHL right now?

 

[Trxjw]

Trade prices tend to be inflated at the deadline. I think Gorton's timing was right.

I like what he's doing so far. The draft will be key, but things seem to be going in the right direction.

 

[Edge]

Markets are what they are boys and girls.

No different than job hunting. Sometimes you need to be resolute and hold out for what you feel you're worth. Other times the market is what it is and you have to be realistic about it. But either way, at some point you arrive at a level of acceptance and move on.

I don't think McD's value was much higher than what we got. Don't think less term was going to do us any favors. Don't think a strong finish was going to raise the price much.

Don't think McD is as bad as he played for TB this last round, or as done as some make him out to be. Not quite convinced the future holds strong odds of a revival for him, at least not long-term. I'd say the most likely, "best case scenario" is that he 's more or less able to maintain his level of play for a few more years. But even then, it would still be noticeably lower than it was 3 or 4 years ago and not likely to get us that level of return.

 

[Matz03]

I really like how Groton has essentially remade the 2016 draft with the additions of Rykov, Lindgren, Howden and Hajek. All of these guys have also had success and been key contributors to their Wcj20 teams, and that's probably not a coincidence. With a good 2017 draft and the stack of picks next month the direct is clearly taking shape and they still have assets in Spooner, Nemestikov, maybe even Zucc to add to for upcoming or 2019 draft. Some of the deals on their own might seem like steals or maybe left a bit to be desired, but as a whole I probably give him an A- for handling the deadline this time.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

But... he wasn't available... so... I'm not sure what the issue is?

Yzerman is a very good & frugal GM.

I wouldn't wanna deal with him anymore... he's that good.

That all might be true. It still doesn't help out the NYR.

 

[Edge]

I really like how Groton has essentially remade the 2016 draft with the additions of Rykov, Lindgren, Howden and Hajek. All of these guys have also had success and been key contributors to their Wcj20 teams, and that's probably not a coincidence. With a good 2017 draft and the stack of picks next month the direct is clearly taking shape and they still have assets in Spooner, Nemestikov, maybe even Zucc to add to for upcoming or 2019 draft. Some of the deals on their own might seem like steals or maybe left a bit to be desired, but as a whole I probably give him an A- for handling the deadline this time.

It's funny you should mention that, because it's a bit of an overlooked point.

We focus on the two first round picks in 2017 and the potential 2018 picks, and with good reason.

But that 2016 draft has a chance to produce some interesting results for us with all of the names you mentioned, along with some of the guys the Rangers took - Day, Gettinger, Fontaine, Ronning. Even when you consider some of those guys are long shots, they're at least in play and are signed to professional contracts.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

How many sure thing top 6 fwd/top 4 D do you think exist outside the NHL right now?

Did I not just name the player that Gorton should've traded for?

He failed to trade for Sergachyov. Lets say that Yzerman absolutely refuses to give up Sergachyov. Might've been the case. What about Point?

If he says no, maybe its time to walk away from the trade. When you aren't getting what you want and the other team is giving up nothing of value, why do we need to make the trade?

 

[nyr2k2]

Why in the **** would the Lightning deal a 19 year old 1st pairing guy that put up 40 points for an often injured 29 year old first pairing guy, who has been regressing? This is madness.

Yes, this was my thing with Sergachev. He'll be better and cheaper than McD (in all likelihood) in the very near future. There's no way he'd be an option. Not for a steady GM like Yzerman.

 

[Matz03]

It's funny you should mention that, because it's a bit of an overlooked point.

We focus on the two first round picks in 2017 and the potential 2018 picks, and with good reason.

But that 2016 draft has a chance to produce some interesting results for us with all of the names you mentioned, along with some of the guys the Rangers took - Day, Gettinger, Fontaine, Ronning. Even when you consider some of those guys are long shots, they're at least in play and are signed to professional contracts.

It just doesn't seem to be a coincidence we want after 2016 drafted players, a) closer to contributing b) easier to judge their floor? It's surely a way to try to expedite the rebuild.

 

[Edge]

Did I not just name the player that Gorton should've traded for?

He failed to trade for Sergachyov. Lets say that Yzerman absolutely refuses to give up Sergachyov. Might've been the case. What about Point?

If he says no, maybe its time to walk away from the trade. When you aren't getting what you want and the other team is giving up nothing of value, why do we need to make the trade?

I think that horse has been beaten to death, resurrected, put in front of a firing squad, stitched back together, lit on fire, doused with club soda, repaired and thrown off a cliff at least 75 times by now.

I think we all know what each other's responses are at this point. We either agree with it or we don't. But there's no new evidence to present to the jury.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Did I not just name the player that Gorton should've traded for?

He failed to trade for Sergachyov. Lets say that Yzerman absolutely refuses to give up Sergachyov. Might've been the case. What about Point?

If he says no, maybe its time to walk away from the trade. When you aren't getting what you want and the other team is giving up nothing of value, why do we need to make the trade?

What about Point?

Do you honestly think he was even remotely available for...anything?

Sergachev wasn’t even available for Karlsson, a VASTLY superior player to McDonagh. Let alone Point, a 21 year old, 30 goal center.

Maybe your valuation of McDonagh (and Miller) is completely off. Is that not possible?

 

[Thirty One]

Did I not just name the player that Gorton should've traded for?

He failed to trade for Sergachyov. Lets say that Yzerman absolutely refuses to give up Sergachyov. Might've been the case. What about Point?

If he says no, maybe its time to walk away from the trade. When you aren't getting what you want and the other team is giving up nothing of value, why do we need to make the trade?

What about Point? What about Kucherov?

Nothing of value? Lol. Not worth my time.

 

[Edge]

It just doesn't seem to be a coincidence we want after 2016 drafted players, a) closer to contributing b) easier to judge their floor? It's surely a way to try to expedite the rebuild.

I think those were likely contributing factors. The Rangers also kept tabs on them and liked what they saw.

The Rangers weren't in a position to get any of the more valuable prospects they acquired at the deadline, with the exception of Rykov. Now, they got them.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I think those were likely contributing factors. The Rangers also kept tabs on them and liked what they saw.

The Rangers weren't in a position to get any of the more valuable prospects they acquired at the deadline, with the exception of Rykov. Now, they got them.

What do you mean with the exception of Rykov?

 

[Matz03]

What do you mean with the exception of Rykov?

they could have drafted Rykov in 2016, the other guys they weren't in a position to but liked.

 

[Thirty One]

What do you mean with the exception of Rykov?

They could have drafted him.

 

[haveandare]

Lets leave aside the McDonagh argument because I just don't agree, but what particularly am I sleeping on about Howden and Hajek? Are they sure thing impact guys? Howden is a sure-thing top 6 forward? Hajek is a sure-thing top 4 D? Thats before we even get into a discussion about whether they can be 1st liners/top pair d. I think the answer is no.

With Sergachyov, you are getting a 1st pair defenseman. The kid is 19 and put up 40 points playing 15 minutes per game. Some of that is playing for the Bolts, but part of it is that he has a good offensive skill-set and is already showing it in the NHL. He also is big, physical and good defensively. He wasn't required to play big minutes for Tampa's D this season due to their depth, but he hasn't been a defensive liability this season, and for a 19 year old D in the NHL thats very impressive.

First pairing defenseman don't play 15 minutes per game. Or have guys like Hedman and Stralman take the hard minutes for them.

You're down on Hajek and Howden because they're not sure to hit their ceilings but you're sure Sergachev will hit his based on him not even coming close to hitting it yet.

Sergachev is undoubtedly a more proven and higher value player than either of them, but he is absolutely not even close to being a proven first pairing defenseman by any stretch of any definition.

 

[Riche16]

That all might be true. It still doesn't help out the NYR.

Sergachev wasn't available.

Do you know that Gorton didn't ask for him? He can ask all he wants doesn't mean he'll get anything.

Walk into a Ferrari dealership with 50k and ASK all you want... you're not walking out with a Ferrari

 

[nyr2k2]

Yeah if someone takes the position that the picks, Hajek, Howden and Namestnikov equal nothing of value, then there's nothing to debate, really.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yeah if someone takes the position that the picks, Hajek, Howden and Namestnikov equal nothing of value, then there's nothing to debate, really.

I think people were expecting more after the Nash trade. But that's a result of both underestimating Nash' value and overestimating McDonagh's value.

The Nash trade was a great return for us. The McDonagh trade was fair. On a scale of 1 to 100, with 1 being the worst return and 100 being the best return, I think the Nash trade was around 80, while the McDonagh trade was around 50. Not good, not bad. Fair value.

 

[mrmovies779]

So I learned on here today you can't become an impact player unless you are a top 6 player or top pairing defenseman.So guys like Fast are useless and dime a dozen players I suppose.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So I learned on here today you can't become an impact player unless you are a top 6 player or top pairing defenseman.So guys like Fast are useless and dime a dozen players I suppose.

Jesper Fast has twice the number of play-off goals Miller has