Jeff Gorton vs Chris Drury

[effen]

Gorton mindlessly made moves for talent without regard for fit -- which is ok to start but ended up being the architect of several teams who straight did not stand up for each other. It was pathetic.

They're still largely dealing with echos of that.

Selling guys for magic beans is easy. Not impressed.

 

[Savant]

I don’t think either are great but those Gorton contracts are hurting the team significantly more than anything Drury has done

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

Who hires the scouts? I understand some of what Gorton had was inherited but at the end of the day they're still his guys. Like Drury has come in and gotten rid of a lot of the scouts that served under Gorton. So if Drury's administration makes a bunch of shitty picks, that's 100% on him--both because the buck stops with him and because even if you want to say "well the scouts got it wrong" or whatever, Drury hired them. The guy at the top is the one ultimately accountable.

Yes and no imo. Gordie Clark for example was with the org since 2002, in a director role since 2005. That is not Gorton’s guy. That’s Sather’s guy. Sather was president up until recently

Gordie Clark at eliteprospects.com

Eliteprospects.com staff profile of Gordie Clark, 1952-05-31 Glasgow, GBR Canada.

www.eliteprospects.com

 

[nyr2k2]

Yes and no imo. Gordie Clark for example was with the org since 2002, in a director role since 2005. That is not Gorton’s guy. That’s Sather’s guy. Sather was president up until recently

Gordie Clark at eliteprospects.com

Eliteprospects.com staff profile of Gordie Clark, 1952-05-31 Glasgow, GBR Canada.

www.eliteprospects.com

Yeah well that's the thing with Gorton--you can say, oh well Sather was really running things. And then you can say, oh well JD was here and he was really running things. Most of Gorton's tenure you can pick and choose what you like and dislike and then decide either it's on him or it's not on him. I mean this thread is evidence that Drury is taking the blame for things that happened under Gorton.

With Drury, while Sather is still slinking around, it's clearly his show IMO. Maybe Dolan has resurfaced somewhat but what we're seeing is Drury. It's tough to do an apples to apples comparison for some of the reasons I've stated.

IDK, I'm not saying people can't have legitimate reasons for preferring Gorton over Drury, but a lot of what I'm seeing here just feels like an emotional response to a disappointing playoff loss. And now people are twisting all sorts of small anecdotes into a larger narrative that is either overly critical or Drury or one that gives Gorton a pass on a lot of things, because reasons.

I'd wager that if we did this poll before the playoffs, the results would be flipped. Doesn't mean the playoffs don't matter, but as I said I think there's still a lot of "the wound is fresh" emotions clouding judgment in here.

Also a lot of people disliked Drury from when he played here and were unlikely to ever give him a truly fair shake.

 

[Mugless]

Four top-10 picks: Lias, Krav, Kakko, Laf.

Woof

 

[nyr2k2]

I'll also say that I feel like Drury has generally operated with a pretty clear plan for the team. His moves have been "predictable" in that you could see why he'd be interested in making them and how they would fit with what we have or don't have. Even the Goodrow deal which everyone hates, Goodrow was the type of guy that had a need for and it fit a plan. Not a great move overall, but I get it.

Kane was the first move he made where I felt like he was deviating from the plan.

 

[Crease]

I'll also say that I feel like Drury has generally operated with a pretty clear plan for the team. His moves have been "predictable" in that you could see why he'd be interested in making them and how they would fit with what we have or don't have. Even the Goodrow deal which everyone hates, Goodrow was the type of guy that had a need for and it fit a plan. Not a great move overall, but I get it.

Kane was the first move he made where I felt like he was deviating from the plan.

This off-season we are going to learn whether Drury is capable of adjusting his plan on the fly, or if he is the stubborn type. As important as having a plan.

 

[Machinehead]

Gorton sucks.

He never actually committed to the rebuild and most of the things people complain about now are his fault. Drury has to go out and do a dumb thing every deadline because Gorton left him a team with massive holes.

Maybe Drury sucks too but I don't think you can fairly judge him yet.

 

[Machinehead]

good point, but sticking to a rebuild in NYC is not that easy, especially with that weird owner.

The weird owner's basketball team just did a successful rebuild. Turns out, all you have to do is stick to the rebuild and not be a buyer in free agency right after you announce it.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

Yeah well that's the thing with Gorton--you can say, oh well Sather was really running things. And then you can say, oh well JD was here and he was really running things. Most of Gorton's tenure you can pick and choose what you like and dislike and then decide either it's on him or it's not on him. I mean this thread is evidence that Drury is taking the blame for things that happened under Gorton.

With Drury, while Sather is still slinking around, it's clearly his show IMO. Maybe Dolan has resurfaced somewhat but what we're seeing is Drury. It's tough to do an apples to apples comparison for some of the reasons I've stated.

IDK, I'm not saying people can't have legitimate reasons for preferring Gorton over Drury, but a lot of what I'm seeing here just feels like an emotional response to a disappointing playoff loss. And now people are twisting all sorts of small anecdotes into a larger narrative that is either overly critical or Drury or one that gives Gorton a pass on a lot of things, because reasons.

I'd wager that if we did this poll before the playoffs, the results would be flipped. Doesn't mean the playoffs don't matter, but as I said I think there's still a lot of "the wound is fresh" emotions clouding judgment in here.

Also a lot of people disliked Drury from when he played here and were unlikely to ever give him a truly fair shake.

No it’s not picking and choosing, I’m responding to your point that the staffing of the scouting department was not “his guys.” Point being we shouldn’t judge these GMs on their draft choices so far. If drury finds a player sure that’s a plus mark. But I don’t credit Gorts with moving up and picking K’Andre, that was the scouting staff (as evident by the war room video).

Zibanejad trade even balanced out by bad moves, clears Drury and likely always will. Dru basically did the reverse Zibanejad trade with Buch.

Anyway it’s good some of you prefer Dru since that’s what we have now and who needs to fix this top heavy luxury filled roster. Arms may be tied with NMCs so not exactly fair but hope he proves me wrong and wins us all over.

 

[nyr2k2]

No it’s not picking and choosing, I’m responding to your point that the staffing of the scouting department was not “his guys.” Point being we shouldn’t judge these GMs on their draft choices so far. If drury finds a player sure that’s a plus mark. But I don’t credit Gorts with moving up and picking K’Andre, that was the scouting staff (as evident by the war room video).

Zibanejad trade even balanced out by bad moves, clears Drury and likely always will. Dru basically did the reverse Zibanejad trade with Buch.

Anyway it’s good some of you prefer Dru since that’s what we have now and who needs to fix this top heavy luxury filled roster. Arms may be tied with NMCs so not exactly fair but hope he proves me wrong and wins us all over.

FWIW, when I was saying "you," it was in a general sense and not you specifically.

 

[Machinehead]

"Well, Gorton got to sell off the team, and that's easy."

He didn't even do that right.

He blew the pick he got for Stepan on Lias Andersson. He got nothing for Zuccarello. Got Nils Lundkvist for McDonagh and Miller and we'll see what the pick Drury got for Lundkvist turns into. Basically ended up trading Hayes for Trouba which was a great idea and a fun thing to do in a rebuild. The only rebuild move that was a win was the Nash trade.

The rebuild was horribly botched. Most of the trades yielded a bag of pucks and most of the picks have been massive disappointments. The team is in decent shape as far as the win column goes because Lundqvist II fell from the same chimney Lundqvist I fell from, a much shorter Larry Robinson forced his way to the Rangers, and Kreider and Zibanejad continued to progress into their 30's.

None of the "rebuild stuff" is a part of the team's core.

 

[Cuckoo4Kakko]

Four top-10 picks: Lias, Krav, Kakko, Laf.

Woof

Can't blame him on Kakko and Laf. No one in the league takes anyone else.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Four top-10 picks: Lias, Krav, Kakko, Laf.

Woof

Who should we have drafted instead of Kakko and Laf at the time? Because you know 1,000% those were the players every single team would have drafted.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Will not vote, as this poll is most criminally missing a third option.

Both weren't up for it against Palpatine. Both stunk it up.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I wish they had let Gorton finish what he started

 

[NikC]

Comparing them as GMs right? or is pizza making part of it?

Gorton 2015 -2021

Drury 2021 - present.

Is this a fair comparison? Drury hasn't set the world on fire, but he inherited a situation, that might not have been the best course of action.

Drury is doing some damage control and some damage of his own.

I trust him. I have faith in GM Drury.

 

[Savant]

Who should we have drafted instead of Kakko and Laf at the time? Because you know 1,000% those were the players every single team would have drafted.

There’s no argument on Kakko at two. That always happens

You could have made an arguement for Byfield or Stutzle instead of Lafreniere though. The argument for Stutzle going one would basically have mirrored the draft last year with MTL passing on Shane Wright. It would have been a….brave…move but it was certainly defensible. But Stutzle also gets stuck as 3LW albeit he has better physical tools than Lafreniere.

Byfield you definitely could have taken over Lafreniere because he was the top center on the board and always was thought of having the higher ceiling. He’s had a weird development too though. That being said I think if Byfield starts in NY (and doesn’t get hurt) and Lafreniere is in LA, then both players are better off. But Rangers went with the consensus both times.

Kakko may never be “worth” the 2oa pick but you can see there is a good NHL player in there. Kakko could carve out a Nino Niederreiter (another top five pick who bloomed kind of late) career and that wouldn’t be the worst outcome. I thin

 

[nyr2k2]

Can you imagine if Lias Andersson turned into Jesper Fast, like the comment that pissed everyone off? That would have been a home run, and maybe you don't have Barclay Goodrow.

 

[effen]

A lot of results oriented thinking here. Shit doesn't work out sometimes. As long as there's good logic behind moves I'm fine with it. Even Nemeth had reasons to be signed.

What I can't forgive is Gorton getting 3 years to shape a roster and having 15 creampuffs, 2 good ol canadian boys, and a token goon on a nightly basis and almost getting Panarin DDT'd to death on the ice (when he stood up for a teammate!!).

And then distancing himself from where his loyalty should be (the team who signs his checks) to instead align with the hockey ops aristocracy. A guy more concerned with his image among his buddies he golfs with than the team he governs and pays him. f*** that guy.

Had f***ing forever to make a team any way he wanted and watched them get dummied by physicality for *literally* years. Leading to Nemeth, Reaves, and assorted shitheads who can't play hockey as a result. His fault.

 

[JT Kreider]

"Well, Gorton got to sell off the team, and that's easy."

He didn't even do that right.

He blew the pick he got for Stepan on Lias Andersson. He got nothing for Zuccarello. Got Nils Lundkvist for McDonagh and Miller and we'll see what the pick Drury got for Lundkvist turns into. Basically ended up trading Hayes for Trouba which was a great idea and a fun thing to do in a rebuild. The only rebuild move that was a win was the Nash trade.

The rebuild was horribly botched. Most of the trades yielded a bag of pucks and most of the picks have been massive disappointments. The team is in decent shape as far as the win column goes because Lundqvist II fell from the same chimney Lundqvist I fell from, a much shorter Larry Robinson forced his way to the Rangers, and Kreider and Zibanejad continued to progress into their 30's.

None of the "rebuild stuff" is a part of the team's core.

If you really, truly think about it, Lindgren and Miller are the only two players from the rebuild that there was an actual effort to acquire/draft.

Gorton doesn't get credit for Fox, Lafreniere and Kakko as those 3 players fell into his lap, we could have had a 5 year old as GM and those 3 players still would have been here.

The McDonagh trade is the most egregious of them all. It was so clear that the run was over as soon as the Ottawa series was blown. Which was probably the worst coached series I've ever seen and the fact it didn't result in AV's immediate firing is another massive mark against Gorton.

Not only that, but he trades Stepan-- then signs Shattenkirk a week later? What kinda contradictory bullshit is that?

Worst of all, by not trading McDonagh on the spot, by the time the trade deadline rolled around, Tampa was the only dance partner for us... while the best defenseman in the league was also on the trade market. Of course we got absolutely obliterated in that trade.

I mean, why was McDonagh even traded in the 1st place? One, because his game, just like every single player on the roster except for Hayes, completely regressed under AV. Two- we didn't want to have to pay an aging defenseman $8 million while we were still "rebuilding".

Except the rebuild ended a whole year later by signing Panarin.

Except they traded a serviceable defenseman and 1st round pick for the pleasure to sign a far worse defenseman to a far worse contract.

Except McDonagh's game instantly rebounded as soon as he got the AV stink off of him.

Except we are now a "contender" and McDonagh is still a high end defenseman. He'd sure as hell be perfect as Fox's partner.

That was the idea when Shattenkirk was signed anyway.

The trade with Tampa is undoubtedly the worst trade any team has made in this decade. There is nothing anyone can do to change my mind.

You can say what you want about what is going down in Vancouver, but its a serious concern that Miller blossomed into a 90 point forward outside of NY.

Just like it was a serious concern that Gaborik smoked us in the 2014 SCF, Callahan and friends celebrated with the ECF trophy on our home ice in 2015, Hagelin skated circles around us alongside Kessel in 2016, Brassard scored the series changing goal in 2017, McDonagh went on to back bone a back to back Cup winner, then eliminated us in the ECF.

Now Jesper Fast is playing Conn Smythe level hockey and alongside Skjei and Stepan, might have his name on the Cup in a month.

Jesus how could I forgot that Brad Richards and Kevin Shattenkirk both won Stanley Cups immediately after being bought out.

Is there anyone else that I missed?

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Not to be that guy but people act like every team in the league doesn’t trade for Trouba when Gorton did and gives him the exact same deal

The Rangers RD at that point was DeAngelo, Pionk who stunk and the soon to be bought out Shattenkirk.

Trouba has declined, idk if that’s a natural decline or the inevitable stink that comes with playing for this franchise where seemingly everyone gets worse when they come here

But alottttt revisionist history on that move

 

[JT Kreider]

The Rangers RD at that point was DeAngelo, Pionk who stunk and the soon to be bought out Shattenkirk.

Fox too

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Fox too

Yeah, he was signed like 2/3 weeks prior to that move and no one had any idea he was going to be as good as he was out of the gate

A lot of unknowns at the time on the right side and Trouba was one of the most coveted defenseman in the league.

 

[McRanger92]

Gorton was an awful GM. Between rushing the deadline trades because he was boxed in by "The Letter" and then abandoning the plan to give 20mil a year to Panarin & Trouba, he was flying by the seat of his pants the entire time. Not to mention the assets he gave up for meaningless deadline pickups like Yandle, E. Staal & Smith in the years before pretty much forced us to rebuild. His moves between the covid bubble and shortened season were unforgivable.

Drury has hits and misses like any GM but everything he's done should be viewed within the horrible cap situation Gorton and JD put him in. Id say he's done well on the Lindgren/Fox/Mika/Chytil extensions and deadline deals (sans Kane but we know there's levels to that one). He has done a pretty terrible job along the edges of the roster though. Goodrow deal hasnt worked, Reaves was a glorified mascot and Nemeth was a disaster. The coaching hire and next 2 seasons are critical for Drury.

I'd love to see how theyd both be viewed if it was Gorton who made the Buchnevich trade instead of Drury. If Gorton's own failings hadnt gotten him unceremoniously fired, he'd be taking the heat. There were always too many wings to pay Buch, and we've been told by the beats that Drury just continued the previous regime's plan of wanted to add toughness.