Value of: Jason Zucker

[AKL]

I know you’re just being flippant. But I’ll give you a real response anyway. Hopefully it helps you get more in touch with the league around you.

—-

Goligoski has been helpful with Hjalmarsson down with injury. I’m glad he’s around right now. He was bad in the first couple of games this season but seems to have got back on track sooner than typical. He was excellent down the stretch for Arizona during the playoff push last season. My chief complaint with him has been slow starts. Seems to be better this year.

All things considered, he’s earned every penny of his contract thus far. He’s not young. And he’s declining. His contract might be bad in its final year (next season) but all signs are pointing to it being fine this year. And certainly in all seasons preceding it.

His mild manner reads as nonchalance when the team is struggling. And that has irritated me in the past. Especially with his slow starts. That further irritates me as the team has been prone to slow starts. Makes him seem part of the problem. But the team ha started better this season. So has Goligoski. With Hjalmarsson hurt, he’s been important.

I’d be open to trading him, but only because I have no interest in extending him, and we don’t have much capspace. But that’s the only reason. He’s a net positive for sure. And I think he’s valuable to the Coyotes right now with Hjalmarsson out.

The Coyotes have played 18 straight really good periods of hockey to start this season. They’ve been really good even in the games they’ve lost. Goligoski is averaging over 21 minutes of ice time and has been good.

—-

Fischer showed upside as an amateur, as a minor pro, and as a rookie. Last year he struggled. This year he seems to be reinventing himself.

He’s playing well, but he’s looking like a really good bottom six energy type, rather than a top six, secondary scoring type that he appeared to be turning into prior to his 2nd NHL season.

At this point I don’t know what his upside is. I think if WYSIWYG - he’s a good bottom six energy guy that’s really popular in the room and is a big bull of a player. However, if he gets his mojo back, he’s got potential to be a very effective player.

He’s only 22 years old. He’s a 220lb winger who skates well, plays an aggressive style. Season before last, he had 15g (including 5g as a pp net front presence) as a rookie on a terrible Coyotes team.

It’s possible that his rookie season in the NHL is the best of his career. That’s not typical though. And if he’s ever any better than he was as a rookie, that’s a very valuable player.

I don’t follow the Wild too closely. But they seem to be a team that could use an energetic, 22 year old, right shot, power forward with PP ability and realistic 15+ goal upside. Maybe I’m wrong.

I look at the Wild and I’m honestly baffled. I have no idea what they should be trying to do. Attempt to rebuild while hanging onto Suter, Parise, Zuccarello and Spurgeon? Seems like a tall order. Shuffle more vets around? I don’t know. I really don’t know the solution.

Keeping everyone around seems like the wrong move too. Seems like a tough spot.

You really could have saved a lot of time and energy not typing this out.

Goligoski has no place on the Wild and Fischer is running out of “upside” fast playing on the 4th line.

We don’t need more overpaid D (third pairing in Minnesota) and bottom six wingers. We’ve got those positions covered in spades.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Are you suggesting Zucker is more valuable than any Coyote?

I'm assuming he was being realistic. Keller, OEL, Chychryn, etc... aren't a part of the mind exercise.

 

[AKL]

Are you suggesting Zucker is more valuable than any Coyote?

Keller, Hayton, Soderstrom, Dvorak, Schmaltz, Ekman-Larsson.

Do you feel better?

Is a conversation for any of those guys going to go anywhere?

 

[rt]

I'm assuming he was being realistic. Keller, OEL, Chychryn, etc... aren't a part of the mind exercise.

Keller, Hayton, Soderstrom, Dvorak, Schmaltz, Ekman-Larsson.

Do you feel better?

Is a conversation for any of those guys going to go anywhere?

Well, it’s certainly a longer list than either of those. And there is also a fairly decent prospect pool and current and future 1st and 2nd round picks is my point.

“Not much” is a dumb comment.

Keller, Kessel, Schmaltz, Dvorak, Hayton, OEL, Hjalmarsson, Chychrun, Soderstrom, 2020 1st, 2020 2nd, 2021 1st, 2021 2nd. That’s to say nothing of Hinostroza, Garland, Fischer, and Merkley who are all young, promising RHS forwards with upside. And also not to mention Capobianco, Bahl, Jenik and other promising prospects with real trade value.

There is PLENTY there for a trade involving a soon to be 28 year old winger with a 5.5 million cap hit and a career 0.52 points per game average. Even if he’s one that I really like a lot and think could help us.

Especially given that the Wild have a rookie GM, one single win, a goals ratio of negative 2:1, very little cap space, several older players with clauses, and palpable frustration boiling over.

Let me reiterate, I’m ONLY challenging the “not much” position - FWIW.

 

[AKL]

Well, it’s certainly a longer list than either of those. And there is also a fairly decent prospect pool and current and future 1st and 2nd round picks is my point.

“Not much” is a dumb comment.

Keller, Kessel, Schmaltz, Dvorak, Hayton, OEL, Hjalmarsson, Chychrun, Soderstrom, 2020 1st, 2020 2nd, 2021 1st, 2021 2nd. That’s to say nothing of Hinostroza, Garland, Fischer, and Merkley who are all young, promising RHS forwards with upside. And also not to mention Capobianco, Bahl, Jenik and other promising prospects with real trade value.

There is PLENTY there for a trade involving a soon to be 28 year old winger with a 5.5 million cap hit and a career 0.52 points per game average. Even if he’s one that I really like a lot and think could help us.

Especially given that the Wild have a rookie GM, one single win, a goals ratio of negative 2:1, very little cap space, several older players with clauses, and palpable frustration boiling over.

Let me reiterate, I’m ONLY challenging the “not much” position - FWIW.

No to Kessel, Hjalmarsson. Probably no to Chychrun. No to the young right wings you mentioned. No to the prospects you listed unless they’re the add on to a better piece. And even then, Jenik is one of the few. We don't need defensive prospects.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Well, it’s certainly a longer list than either of those. And there is also a fairly decent prospect pool and current and future 1st and 2nd round picks is my point.

“Not much” is a dumb comment.

Keller, Kessel, Schmaltz, Dvorak, Hayton, OEL, Hjalmarsson, Chychrun, Soderstrom, 2020 1st, 2020 2nd, 2021 1st, 2021 2nd. That’s to say nothing of Hinostroza, Garland, Fischer, and Merkley who are all young, promising RHS forwards with upside. And also not to mention Capobianco, Bahl, Jenik and other promising prospects with real trade value.

There is PLENTY there for a trade involving a soon to be 28 year old winger with a 5.5 million cap hit and a career 0.52 points per game average. Even if he’s one that I really like a lot and think could help us.

Especially given that the Wild have a rookie GM, one single win, a goals ratio of negative 2:1, very little cap space, several older players with clauses, and palpable frustration boiling over.

Let me reiterate, I’m ONLY challenging the “not much” position - FWIW.

What would your say you have, other than "Keller, Kessel, Schmaltz, Dvorak, Hayton, OEL, Hjalmarsson, Chychrun, Soderstrom, 2020 1st, 2020 2nd, 2021 1st, 2021 2nd."?

 

[rt]

What would your say you have, other than "Keller, Kessel, Schmaltz, Dvorak, Hayton, OEL, Hjalmarsson, Chychrun, Soderstrom, 2020 1st, 2020 2nd, 2021 1st, 2021 2nd."?

Why are you excluding the final four listed assets?

 

[rt]

No to Kessel, Hjalmarsson. Probably no to Chychrun. No to the young right wings you mentioned. No to the prospects you listed unless they’re the add on to a better piece. And even then, Jenik is one of the few. We don't need defensive prospects.

I wasn’t suggesting a one-for-one trade.

 

[AKL]

I wasn’t suggesting a one-for-one trade.

Great, so a top 10 protected first and Jenik. Sounds good.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Would he be an available player if he waived his NTC and what assets would the Wild want for him?

After calling out his coach he hurt his value

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Me and Bazeek already agreed on a trade of B. McGinn + 2020 1st (lowest of TO/CAR unprotected) for Zucker. It’s done guys

 

[Digitalbooya]

Me and Bazeek already agreed on a trade of B. McGinn + 2020 1st (lowest of TO/CAR unprotected) for Zucker. It’s done guys

We want to argue about low ball offers from Arizona though

 

[Bazeek]

Are you suggesting Zucker is more valuable than any Coyote?

Definitely not. I've just seen the pieces you put into these offers many times and none of them are appealing. The NHLers (Goligoski and Fischer, usually) don't do us any good and a 2nd round pick doesn't carry enough value. I don't know enough about Arizona's prospect pool to get excited about anything in it that you're going to want to part with.

Your 1st would be good, but that's about all I can think of. And that's just a general request for any team, not specific to Arizona. If we're looking at players and prospects nothing really jumps out to me as appropriate for both teams. Hence "not much."

 

[Bazeek]

Me and Bazeek already agreed on a trade of B. McGinn + 2020 1st (lowest of TO/CAR unprotected) for Zucker. It’s done guys

I was deep into a bottle of wine when we made this deal. All I remember is a bird.

 

[rt]

We want to argue about low ball offers from Arizona though

Wait? Fischer and a 1st is lowball but McGinn and a 1st is a done deal? Fischer is 3yrs younger, has 1% better career points per game average, has less than half the cap hit, and is a RHS (which Wild fans have been stating as a need).

 

[rt]

Definitely not. I've just seen the pieces you put into these offers many times and none of them are appealing. The NHLers (Goligoski and Fischer, usually) don't do us any good and a 2nd round pick doesn't carry enough value. I don't know enough about Arizona's prospect pool to get excited about anything in it that you're going to want to part with.

Your 1st would be good, but that's about all I can think of. And that's just a general request for any team, not specific to Arizona. If we're looking at players and prospects nothing really jumps out to me as appropriate for both teams. Hence "not much."

Goligoski is an asset. If you don’t want him, I’d prefer to keep him. He’s going to help us push for the playoffs.

I’m open to doing the 1st for Zucker. But Arizona isn’t Toronto. We are not a lock for the post season. I’m not giving up a lottery pick for Zucker. I’m sure you don’t expect a lottery pick for Zucker.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Wait? Fischer and a 1st is lowball but McGinn and a 1st is a done deal? Fischer is 3yrs younger, has 1% better career points per game average, has less than half the cap hit, and is a RHS (which Wild fans have been stating as a need).

You forgot that in YOUR original deal it would be Zucker with "significant retention" and a mid round pick going back for Fischer (blah) + a CONDITIONAL 1st (playoffs).

 

[Richard88]

Hall is great, but will cost a mountain of cash to re-sign, and AFAIK has no connection to CO, making him a tough re-sign. Zucker is signed for a few more years, and went to school in Denver. I would guess that Hall would be at least as expensive as Zucker to acquire, even as an expiring contract. It depends on how he does this year.

I would be good with either Jost or Newhook for Zucker. I bet that Sakic values Jost more than Newhook, simply because he is contributing now, and the AVs window is clearly open NOW, especially if they are going to trade for Zucker/Hall. Not to mention that more wing talent will make Jost better.

It's very early, but Newhook looks to be at least two years away from the NHL, if not more. Completely normal for a #16 pick.

I wouldn't be so sure that Sakic values Jost higher than Newhook. Jost is coming off his ELC next summer, whereas Newhook likely will still be on an ELC when Mackinnon needs a raise in 2023, so would be a crucial piece in keeping the roster competitive at that stage. Newhook's ceiling is also higher than Jost as it looks now.

That said, I do agree that adding a legit top 6 winger and bumping Jost to 3C with better wingers than he has on the 3rd line now might work in his favour. Adding Zucker or Hall and having Jost as 3C would mean that he gets to play with Donskoi and Compher as his wingers which is pretty decent.

 

[Bazeek]

Goligoski is an asset. If you don’t want him, I’d prefer to keep him. He’s going to help us push for the playoffs.

I’m open to doing the 1st for Zucker. But Arizona isn’t Toronto. We are not a lock for the post season. I’m not giving up a lottery pick for Zucker. I’m sure you don’t expect a lottery pick for Zucker.

I don't, no. There's probably not a player in the league that has a more well-established trade value than Zucker does right now: a late 1st + a decent roster player. Goligoski might be a good Frolik comparable, actually. At this point though, in lieu of the player (because we kind of have too many) I'd rather it just be a mid round pick or a prospect.

Also, in response to a previous post of yours: yes, my comment was in fact dumb.

 

[rt]

You forgot that in YOUR original deal it would be Zucker with "significant retention" and a mid round pick going back for Fischer (blah) + a CONDITIONAL 1st (playoffs).

Arizona pick is better than the Toronto pick. Toronto is a lock for the playoffs. Arizona is a bubble team. Certainly you don’t believe Zucker is worth a lottery pick. Obviously that’s not equitable. So there’s the condition.

Fischer is younger, cheaper and more valuable than McGinn. It was made clear that Goligoski is of no interest, so I’m open to other ideas for salary cap consideration. If there is no Goligoski and no retention, there needs to be something creative.

 

[Bazeek]

Arizona pick is better than the Toronto pick. Toronto is a lock for the playoffs. Arizona is a bubble team. Certainly you don’t believe Zucker is worth a lottery pick. Obviously that’s not equitable. So there’s the condition.

Fischer is younger, cheaper and more valuable than McGinn. It was made clear that Goligoski is of no interest, so I’m open to other ideas for salary cap consideration. If there is no Goligoski and no retention, there needs to be something creative.

ARZ 1st (with protections) + Fischer is better than CAR/TOR 1st + McGinn.

Adding Goligoski for cap reasions is difficult if he's seen as an asset by Arizona. In Minnesota he'd just be fighting for 3rd pairing time with Hunt, Soucy and Seeler, so there's really no room for him. I also don't see us retaining anything on Zucker.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Arizona pick is better than the Toronto pick. Toronto is a lock for the playoffs. Arizona is a bubble team. Certainly you don’t believe Zucker is worth a lottery pick. Obviously that’s not equitable. So there’s the condition.

Fischer is younger, cheaper and more valuable than McGinn. It was made clear that Goligoski is of no interest, so I’m open to other ideas for salary cap consideration. If there is no Goligoski and no retention, there needs to be something creative.

I think I'd do Zucker (no retention) for Fischer+1st. Condition being if the Coyotes don't make the playoffs this year, it becomes an unprotected 1st next year. Sure. Deal. You won't win the significant retention battle if you still have conditions on the 1st round pick. Zucker with retention dramatically increases his value, which is what you don't seem to get in comparing McGinn+1st vs Fischer+1st.

 

[rt]

I don't, no. There's probably not a player in the league that has a more well-established trade value than Zucker does right now: a late 1st + a decent roster player. Goligoski might be a good Frolik comparable, actually. At this point though, in lieu of the player (because we kind of have too many) I'd rather it just be a mid round pick or a prospect.

Also, in response to a previous post of yours: yes, my comment was in fact dumb.

9/10 of my comments are dumb. Haha.

To me, Fischer is a lot more valuable than Frolik. Calgary would have to add roughly ten value of Fischer to get me to even consider taking Frolik for free. That’s just my view. I was glad to be rid of Panik. I like Panik significantly better than Frolik. I wouldn’t take Panik back for free.

The Arizona pick is a lot more valuable than the Calgary pick. Even with lottery protection, it has the (very real and likely) potential to be 8-10 slots higher than the Calgary pick was likely to be at the TDL. Teams pay 2nd round picks all the time to move up that far in the draft.

I think the pick is significantly more valuable than the Calgary one and the player is significantly more valuable than the Calgary one.

I also see that we are having a tough time making the cap considerations work. I view that as an opportunity. There is an option that makes the cash work while also balancing the value out. Rebuilding teams often explore retention as a way to maximize value in trades. It’s an option.

 

[Sota Popinski]

As a frequent contributor to the Canes bird and staunch supporter of the Nino for Rask trade, what would get Zucker to Carolina?

I’m thinking McGinn has to go back for cap reasons. I think we have the picks and prospects to get it done with the extra collateral

How could you be anything but a supporter of the Nino trade? Rask is baby poop.

 

[rt]

I think I'd do Zucker (no retention) for Fischer+1st. Condition being if the Coyotes don't make the playoffs this year, it becomes an unprotected 1st next year. Sure. Deal. You won't win the significant retention battle if you still have conditions on the 1st round pick. Zucker with retention dramatically increases his value, which is what you don't seem to get in comparing McGinn+1st vs Fischer+1st.

I have two deals to use as precedent in this discussion, then. Frolik and a very late 1st as well as McGinn and a very late first. Arizona’s 1st is more valuable than either of those picks. Fischer is more valuable than either of those players.

How do we bridge the gap? How about a little retention.