Jason Botterill Discussion 2

[Doug Prishpreed]

If the ROR trade was "all on Pegula," then why? The bonus? That's Melnyk level bullshit.

Botts would've been a perfect GM for Ottawa under Melnyk.

 

[OkimLom]

Kane went to a better team with a better coach and an older line-up. It was the right type of place for a player like Kane. Plus, he seems happier in the bigger West Coast environment.

Lehner got well and added the best goalie coach in hockey.

ROR is still ROR, just with a better overall line-up, and a better goalie.

Not tore up about Kane. He had to go for numerous reasons. Lehner's issues can't be laid on Murray or Botterill. Probably could foresee his issues developing, or foresee him getting well and tearing it up.

ROR was just a silly trade.

Murray should be held responsible for Lehner’s issues. If you’re trading a 1st round pick you better make sure you did your homework, especially for the position that is going to play 60+ minutes a game. You need to make sure that guy is with it emotionally and mentally. Not to mention your head coach should be engaging with your players, which Bylsma by all reports refused to do, which again falls on Murray’s shoulders.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I don't understand this reasoning. They had the tools to fix all 3 if they chose. Kane wasn't worth it to me as I don't value his hockey sense. We don't know the real issue with ROR. Was he that depressing, did he demand a trade, was his dad that much of a pain in the ass? But I'm sure there was a way around it. And Lehner could have went to rehab here and got clean. He would still be playing in this system though instead of the Isles which is much more goalie friendly but he could have been back too.

You have any idea how much a gamble it is to rely on people fixing their own personal issues? Pointing them in the right direction toward rehab programs, arranging transport and logistics, and so on is all they can do. When you also have to hope that good will pays off with success, in order to justify new and long-term contracts worth millions, I don't bother unless those people have shown a commitment to getting better. It didn't happen with any of them.

 

[Dreakon13]

If the ROR trade was "all on Pegula," then why? The bonus? That's Melnyk level bull****.

Botts would've been a perfect GM for Ottawa under Melnyk.

I'd figure the embarrassing season, ROR being one of the few older players with any semblence of trade value, and eventually the comments, are the reasons why organizationally they wanted to try a huge shake up trade like that and move on from ROR... which is fine as long as the return was good...

... and the bonus is why the return was so bad, and there's no rational reason to think Pegula didn't have a hand in it. Botts tried to bluff about the price going up after the bonus was paid, but GM's saw through it and he had to settle for the highest lowball bid minutes before the artificial deadline.

I mean, it's also possible that I'm completely wrong and Botts is just an idiot that thought it was a great return and jumped on it before STL pulled out. Or that Botts gave himself his own bonus deadline and Pegula had nothing or little to do with it. But of all the hypothetical options, I think Pegula saying "I'm not paying this guy an extra $7.5 mill after this season and after those comments" and pushing Botts into a lose-lose scenario is the most likely. Especially considering how involved the Pegula's seem to be in these things. Who knows, maybe they were still salty about the Tim Horton's thing a week after trading for him.

 

[Jame]

Summarizing summer 2017 and summer 2018

Summer 2017
Eichel to everyone who would listen: “f*** this!”
Pegula to Murray: “Eichel is upset, what are you gonna do about that?”
Murray: “uhhhh.....”
Pegula: “you’re all fired!”
Eichel:

Summer 2018
ROR to everyone who would listen: “this is not good”
Pegula to Botterill: “ROR is upset, what are you gonna do about this?”
Botts: “RORs the problem, gotta trade him”
Pegula: “brilliant! do it before the bonus”
ROR:

 

[GellMann]

Summarizing summer 2017 and summer 2018

Summer 2017
Eichel to everyone who would listen: “**** this!”
Pegula to Murray: “Eichel is upset, what are you gonna do about that?”
Murray: “uhhhh.....”
Pegula: “you’re all fired!”
Eichel:

Summer 2018
ROR to everyone who would listen: “this is not good”
Pegula to Botterill: “ROR is upset, what are you gonna do about this?”
Botts: “RORs the problem, gotta trade him”
Pegula: “brilliant! do it before the bonus”
ROR:

Thank you for this. As one of many stuck in the limbo between millennial and Gen Z, my understanding of any written topic increases factorially as a function of # of emojis used

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

Summarizing summer 2017 and summer 2018

Summer 2017
Eichel to everyone who would listen: “**** this!”
Pegula to Murray: “Eichel is upset, what are you gonna do about that?”
Murray: “uhhhh.....”
Pegula: “you’re all fired!”
Eichel:

Summer 2018
ROR to everyone who would listen: “this is not good”
Pegula to Botterill: “ROR is upset, what are you gonna do about this?”
Botts: “RORs the problem, gotta trade him”
Pegula: “brilliant! do it before the bonus”
ROR:

Botts: You're breakin' my balls, Doug, I don't know, this is Ryan O'Rielly we're talking about, faceoff defensive zone specialist..


GM Armstrong: Alright Jason.... I'll tell you what.... I got this player, Sobotka?? Yeah... he's pretty good... here's an all goals montage from 2013 to now.

Botts: I don't know, Doug, Sobotka seems kinda of cap dumpy to me, what would it take to get Patrik Berglund too?

GM Armstrong: Ohhh.... Berglund.... I don't know Jason... you're kind of breaking my balls here..

Botts: Does he have a love of the game?

GM Armstrong: Oh, yeah!! My god! He loves hockey! Trained his whole life as a young lad in Vasteras, Sweden- his whole dream was to play in the NHL! I think he'd love to play for a team like Buffalo, in fact you're not on his no trade clause list.

Botts: Oh, excellent!! So you're sure he hasn't lost his love of the game? This is pretty much a deal breaker with our young Buffalo squad.

Armstrong: Not a doubt. I'll even throw in a second.

Botts: Done

 

[joshjull]

I’ve always agreed with this. Murray did not know how to run an organization...



I disagree. His hubris was in his belief that putting a talented roster together and hiring someone to coach it, was the entirety of his job.​

Side bar: Draisaitl is a pretty terrible player when away from McDavid.







There’s no defending Murray’s overall tenure... the biggest problems of which you identified in your first few paragraphs.... It is worth recognizing that the elements of Murray’s tenure that got the loudest criticism, actually pale in comparison to those same elements of Botts tenure (trades).



​

My previous post is not a defense of Botts or how he stacks up vs Murray. Its coming from a place of supreme frustration with this franchise that has led to me feeling very depressed about the future. I don't have much faith the current management (Botts and the Pegulas) will know how to set things right. I'm still pissed about the reports Botts still didn't want to get rid of Housley as of a few weeks ago. Hopefully I'm proven wrong but I have serious doubts this management team gets it right this offseason. Its part of why I'm giving up my season tix.

Ultimately the success or failure of this franchise rests with the Pegulas. If they don't learn how to properly run this franchise we are f***ed. Even if they fire Botts and/or Housley because they will still be in charge of hiring their replacements. The only hope we have on that front is that Kim has gotten much more involved since the firing of Brandon. She has spent much of her time since then learning and talking to other franchises to see how they are set up. She's hinted at possible restructuring or changing the front office model of the team. Will she have learned the right lessons and get it right going forward? Who knows but I'm not exactly hopeful since its unknowable yet how she will act. But I do know Terry is a lost cause. His interview at the NFL meetings giving more evidence of that. Where he said some head scratching and cringeworthy things. Chief among them was referring to Housley as a young coach still learning. Yes those young 55yr old coaches.

 

[Chainshot]

If he returns, I want to see him succeed. I have nothing against him personally. I want the team to win and to do that, having him make solid additions in multiple areas is a must.

Win the summer Botts. You don't have to crush the summer, but you do have to win it.

 

[sabresandcanucks]

After listening to Mike Gillis over the past couple of months I would love him to take over if Botts is fired. I just want Gillis paired with a really good drafting/scouting AGM. Gillis would leverage the analytics team more effectively and would tell Terry where to spend his excess cash to gain unfair advantages over other teams (Different trainers, sleep doctors, dietitians, team psychologists....etc).

 

[OneBuffalo]

If he doesn’t fire Housley, he can go as well. And the next GM better tell the Pegula to shut the f*** up and let him run the franchise. Just collect this concession/ticket sales.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Is there any CBA accommodations for GM cranium circumference?

 

[Baccus]

Is there any CBA accommodations for GM cranium circumference?

I assume any extra advertising he can plaster on his forehead doesn't count as Hockey Related Revenue. Dotcom will have to confirm per usual.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I assume any extra advertising he can plaster on his forehead doesn't count as Hockey Related Revenue. Dotcom will have to confirm per usual.

Great idea!

You could put a bill board on Botts' head.

 

[Buffalo Norsemen]

If he let's a 40 goal scorer get away after the O'Reilly deal he may well go down as incompetant.

 

[WpgBuffan]

Pretty much all of the underlying numbers favour the Botterill teams over the Tim Murray teams. The biggest reason reason that the Tim Murray teams had more points was far better goaltending.

 

[Myllz]

Pretty much all of the underlying numbers favour the Botterill teams over the Tim Murray teams. The biggest reason reason that the Tim Murray teams had more points was far better goaltending.

Yeah, Robin Lehner, savior of the Tim Murray teams.

 

[WpgBuffan]

Lehner put up good numbers those two years compared to what we got this year.

 

[Gabrielor]

So.

Who here feels good that Botterill is:

A) Selecting coach #2

B) Could be trading Ristolainen for a -TBD- return

C) Getting a third crack at not only playoffs, but even just passing Murray/Bylsma's 78 and 79 points.

 

[BananaSquad]

So.

Who here feels good that Botterill is:

A) Selecting coach #2

B) Could be trading Ristolainen for a -TBD- return

C) Getting a third crack at not only playoffs, but even just passing Murray/Bylsma's 78 and 79 points.[/QUOT
I’m good with it all.

 

[Gabrielor]

I'm good with it all

and what, may I ask, gives you confidence?

 

[Chainshot]

So.

Who here feels good that Botterill is:

A) Selecting coach #2

B) Could be trading Ristolainen for a -TBD- return

C) Getting a third crack at not only playoffs, but even just passing Murray/Bylsma's 78 and 79 points.

The coaching will be big, but I have a fear of what he does in trade. I'd like to not look back at his next "big trade" and lament how he got his ass handed to him again.

 

[sabresandcanucks]

I'd like a sense of what the plan is....What is our timeline? High level execution strategy?....Instead we get obvious statements like "Defense could be better.....need depth scoring...."

I want to know when he believes we will be competitive....even if that is a statement like "We plan to be competitive every night and the playoffs we believe are within reach, but maybe another year or two away from being a top club in this league." We can read between the lines. Then execute around that timeline.

His moves and his words seem to suggest someone throwing jelly at the wall and hoping it sticks. I don't think he knows what our timeline is, it changes constantly depending on near term results.

 

[OkimLom]

So.

Who here feels good that Botterill is:

A) Selecting coach #2

B) Could be trading Ristolainen for a -TBD- return

C) Getting a third crack at not only playoffs, but even just passing Murray/Bylsma's 78 and 79 points.

Not sure how to feel yet. Too many issues I have with Botterill, with his handling of too many decisions already, to make me feel any sort of happiness with this man.

A. Expecting an Assistant from Pittsburgh or a coach from Wilkes-Barre to be the front runner

B. Can't comment on something that is an unknown at this point

C. Don't think he will do it next year. Expecting a more "consistent" form of losing more often. Wish we would've known more about the franchise going forward instead of sticking to the Housley story.

 

[Icicle]

I'd like a sense of what the plan is....What is our timeline? High level execution strategy?....Instead we get obvious statements like "Defense could be better.....need depth scoring...."

I want to know when he believes we will be competitive....even if that is a statement like "We plan to be competitive every night and the playoffs we believe are within reach, but maybe another year or two away from being a top club in this league." We can read between the lines. Then execute around that timeline.

His moves and his words seem to suggest someone throwing jelly at the wall and hoping it sticks. I don't think he knows what our timeline is, it changes constantly depending on near term results.

Do you want him to tell the fans they’re in for some suffering? Last GM to do that had a bit of a falling out in the league.


There’s good reasons managers can never be wholly transparent. The only thing he can’t hide are the moves he makes.