Rumor: Jakob Chychrun wants to be traded to a playoff team

[Coyotes19c]

I'd trade Greig/Pinto + 2024 1st (top 3 protected) + another B asset (2nd?) if they also take Zaitsev.

I prefer Pinto BUT he has a higher ceiling than Greig and may play himself out of the 3C role pretty quickly in Ottawa (and has nowhere to go). Greig plays a better bottom 6 type game, and will be cost controlled longer. Plus he can play LW if needed

If you change that first to 2023(top 5 protected) I would accept that deal.

 

[rt]

I'd trade Greig/Pinto + 2024 1st (top 3 protected) + another B asset (2nd?) if they also take Zaitsev.

I prefer Pinto BUT he has a higher ceiling than Greig and may play himself out of the 3C role pretty quickly in Ottawa (and has nowhere to go). Greig plays a better bottom 6 type game, and will be cost controlled longer. Plus he can play LW if needed

As a Yotes fan, I’d do that deal. With either prospect, honestly.

EDIT: just noticed you had it as ‘24 1st. That’s no deal for me. Has to be the ‘23 1st.

If you change that first to 2023(top 5 protected) I would accept that deal.

Same.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Jarventie/Ostapchuk/Boucher + 2023 1st + 2024 2nd + another B prospect OR another 2nd in exchange for taking on Zaitsev

Not giving up Greig or Pinto and what could be a top 10-15 pick in a very strong looking draft for Chychrun given his injury issues.

 

[rt]

Jarventie/Ostapchuk/Boucher + 2023 1st + 2024 2nd + another B prospect OR another 2nd in exchange for taking on Zaitsev

Not giving up Greig or Pinto and what could be a top 10-15 pick in a very strong looking draft for Chychrun given his injury issues.

As a Yotes fan, that’s close but no cigar.

I’d do Zaitsev+Sogaard+1 of those F’s+‘23 1st+ ‘23 2nd.

 

[Hale The Villain]

As a Yotes fan, that’s close but no cigar.

I’d do Zaitsev+Sogaard+1 of those F’s+‘23 1st+ ‘23 2nd.

Yeah so basically the same proposal but Sogaard being the B prospect and the 2nd changed from 2024 to 2023.

I don't think Sogaard can be traded given the lack of goaltending depth in the Sens system. Replace him with a D prospect like Thomson or Kleven.

 

[rt]

Yeah so basically the same proposal but Sogaard being the B prospect and the 2nd changed from 2024 to 2023.

I don't think Sogaard can be traded given the lack of goaltending depth in the Sens system. Replace him with a D prospect like Thomson or Kleven.

That would probably work for me. I wouldn’t like it too much. Just a bit pile of stuff. But it’s late in the process, here, and this has to end at some point. Haha.

 

[Hale The Villain]

That would probably work for me. I wouldn’t like it too much. Just a bit pile of stuff. But it’s late in the process, here, and this has to end at some point. Haha.

Felt the same way about the Karlsson return.

Would have preferred one more A prospect or 1st instead of extra secondary assets, but San Jose/Dallas/other suitors wouldn't budge.

Unlike the Sens the Yotes may be able to hold onto Chychrun for longer though to get the return they demand. Guess we'll see.

 

[hamzarocks]

That would probably work for me. I wouldn’t like it too much. Just a bit pile of stuff. But it’s late in the process, here, and this has to end at some point. Haha.

Knies + 1st + Muzzin for Chychuran + some decent 3rd line potential prospect is a deal I wish Dubas would make.

I really see Chychuran breaking out if the leafs were to acquire him. His game would work well with the talented offensive forwards and he could have 15-20 goal years every year.

I'm surprised teams are hesitant to hive up a similar propsect to Knies in a deal for Chychuran

The only concern with him is injuries which he hasn't had many major repeated ones.

Play wise he's been a strong #3 with a lot of room left to grow.

Physical wise dudes built like a truck and a strong skater. His physical tools alone make me see him as a quality 2D on a contending team. If his on ice IQ catches up to his physical skills he's a top 15D who'll only be 27 on his next contract

Contract only makes 4.5M and has 3 years term.

Unless his injury concerns are more serious than I believe surprising people are hesitant to pay a 1st + B+/A- prospect for him.

Rentals get 1st + B-/C+ propsect usually, and they're inky 1 playoff run guys who are older in age.

 

[rt]

Felt the same way about the Karlsson return.

Would have preferred one more A prospect or 1st instead of extra secondary assets, but San Jose/Dallas/other suitors wouldn't budge.

Unlike the Sens the Yotes may be able to hold onto Chychrun for longer though to get the return they demand. Guess we'll see.

It’s usually a “big pile” in these blockbusters. So I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens.

However, I have to say that while I can appreciate taking Sanderson off the table and can even sympathize with a Pinto/Greig being off the table, us reaching a point where it’s Sanderson AND Pinto AND Greig AND Sogaard off the table feels a bit miserly and not conducive to a deal ever getting done.

 

[rt]

Knies + 1st + Muzzin for Chychuran + some decent 3rd line potential prospect is a deal I wish Dubas would make.

I really see Chychuran breaking out if the leafs were to acquire him. His game would work well with the talented offensive forwards and he could have 15-20 goal years every year.

I'm surprised teams are hesitant to hive up a simular propsect to Knies in a deal for Chychuran

The only concern with him is injuries which he hasn't had many major repeated ones.

Play wise he's been a strong #3 with a lot of rook left to grow.

Physical wise dudes built like a truck and a strong skater.

Contract only makes 4.5M and has 3 years term.

Unless his injury concerns are more serious than I believe surprising people are hesitant to pay a 1st + B+/A- prospect for him.

Rentals get 1st + B-/C+ propsect usually, and they're inky 1 playoff run guys who are older in age.

Muzzin+Knies+1st for Chychrun is something I’d pull the trigger on. I like Knies about the same as Greig or Neighbours. Same tier.

The Toronto 1st is nice because there’s no need to protect it.

And Muzzin is much easier to stomach as a dump than Zaitsev or Scandella because he’s only got this season remaining. If he can stay healthy, might even be able to retain 50% and flip him for another asset closer to TDL.

Knies being local, BFFs with Josh Doan, and teammates with Cooley is nice, too.

As would be seeing Ottawa get inches from Chychrun only to lose him to the hated Leafs. That would make for some seriously fun times online for a little while. Especially if Zaitsev continues to struggle and fans know he could’ve being exchanged for Chychrun if only they’d be willing to do Grieg+1st like Toronto with Knies+1st.

 

[Hale The Villain]

It’s usually a “big pile” in these blockbusters. So I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens.

However, I have to say that while I can appreciate taking Sanderson off the table and can even sympathize with a Pinto/Greig being off the table, us reaching a point where it’s Sanderson AND Pinto AND Greig AND Sogaard off the table feels a bit miserly and not conducive to a deal ever getting done.

Sogaard probably isn't off the table for the Sens, but they probably value him more than his play would justify due to the lack of alternatives in the pipeline after dealing Gustavsson.

 

[hamzarocks]

Muzzin+Knies+1st for Chychrun is something I’d pull the trigger on. I like Knies about the same as Greig or Neighbours. Same tier.

The Toronto 1st is nice because there’s no need to protect it.

And Muzzin is much easier to stomach as a dump than Zaitsev or Scandella because he’s only got this season remaining. If he can stay healthy, might even be able to retain 50% and flip him for another asset closer to TDL.

Knies being local, BFFs with Josh Doan, and teammates with Cooley is nice, too.

As would be seeing Ottawa get inches from Chychrun only to lose him to the hated Leafs. That would make for some seriously fun times online for a little while. Especially if Zaitsev continues to struggle and fans know he could’ve being exchanged for Chychrun if only they’d be willing to do Grieg+1st like Toronto with Knies+1st.

Muzzin has 2 years remaining. This year and next

Not sure how that'll impact your valuation.

I wouldn't add on top of Muzzin in the deal. Knies + 1st are the value assets, while Muzzin is the cap balancer

Don't think Muzzin is a negative value asset. When healthy he's still a top4D, just he's declining quickly. He struggled last year outside of the Bolts series and he is a major injury concern

 

[hbk]

Sogaard probably isn't off the table for the Sens, but they probably value him more than his play would justify due to the lack of alternatives in the pipeline after dealing Gustavsson.

What if AZ includes Prosvetov?

 

[rt]

What if AZ includes Prosvetov?

Is Sogaard so much better or just another dice roll?

Muzzin has 2 years remaining. This year and next

Not sure how that'll impact your valuation.

I wouldn't add on top of Muzzin in the deal. Knies + 1st are the value assets, while Muzzin is the cap balancer

Don't think Muzzin is a negative value asset. When healthy he's still a top4D, just he's declining quickly. He struggled last year outside of the Bolts series and he is a major injury concern

Dang. Yeah, that sours it somewhat. Still better than Zaitsev. Haha.

 

[hamzarocks]

Is Sogaard so much better or just another dice roll?


Dang. Yeah, that sours it somewhat. Still better than Zaitsev. Haha.

I'd put holl on the table if you wanted a 1 year piece only issue is leafs I don't think can absorb 2.5M increase from Holl to Chychuran (which does stink as 4.5M is basically nothing)

It's to late for a kerfoot deal but holl + knies + 2023 1st could have been done if the leafs had moved kerfoot for a few picks

 

[Hale The Villain]

Is Sogaard so much better or just another dice roll?

Sogaard's numbers have been better, but goalies are such a crapshoot. Who knows.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Sounds good, thanks for sharing your thoughts. They all make sense (as I'm sure you know already, obvi you don't need me to tell you that). Longer post but enjoy having these more well-thought out discussions rather than the nonsense you sometimes see on the main boards (and that I replied to a short while ago smh)

Anyway I would push back on two macro level things:

1) I really disagree that you can assume Zaitsev will be able to be easily dumped.



2) When you see "major roster surgery" upcoming I really don't,

I'll keep this post short as I feel I'll just be repeating myself & I understand that long posts can be tedious to read.

1. I never said it will be easy to dump Zaitsev. What I did say is the cost will be lower next year when he only has one year left on his contract, especially after his signing bonus is paid. It will cost something, but less than it would if he had 2 years of term remaining. By some of your own fans metrics one year of cap for Zaitsev = 2nd round pick. So 2 years = Qty two 2nd round picks, 1 year = Qty one 2nd round pick. I'm not trying to identify the exact return here. I'm just demonstrating the concept.

2. By major roster surgery I mean that the Senators will not by keeping all the players they'd like to in 2023-24 (i.e., Debrincat, Zub, etc.) if they also have to pay Chychrun's AAV. I have a spreadsheet, but including it will result in a real long post. You can visit the Senators website and see the spreadsheet & exact numbers. I'll give you the name of the thread and the post # if you'd like. This is simple stuff and all the players with expiring contracts and everything else has already been incorporated. Nothing has been missed.

The other thing is that if Dorion was willing to move Sanderson, Grieg or Pinto, the deal would have been done in the summer. There would have been absolutely nothing stopping him from pulling the trigger. I think the team is poised to run with mixing in their 2 good prospects in JBD and Thomson in to the lineup both of whom are RDs.

 

[UglyPuckling]

I'd trade Greig/Pinto + 2024 1st (top 3 protected) + another B asset (2nd?) if they also take Zaitsev.

I prefer Pinto BUT he has a higher ceiling than Greig and may play himself out of the 3C role pretty quickly in Ottawa (and has nowhere to go). Greig plays a better bottom 6 type game, and will be cost controlled longer. Plus he can play LW if needed

What do you think the cap will be next year?

Have you generated a roster with salaries for all 22 players you think will be on team plus the retain $s and buyouts? It's really an informative & necessary exercise if you haven't.

 

[EK392000]

Why doesn't he just play really well and make Arizona a playoff team? Won't have to deal with the hassle of moving.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Their fans seem more than happy with their blue line, even if they were to make a proposal what can they really offer ?

Edm fans are forced to accept their Blueline, not because they're wanting to be happy with it.

Keith retiring left a massive hole on their team. At many times last season he was their #1 dman.

Says the blackhawks fan.

You guys were f***ing garbage for years and years. Horrible attendance for years, might have been even worse than Arizona or Florida. Welcome to the basement again with no assets whatsoever to show for it aside from 20 mil locked up in a couple guys at the twilight of their careers.

Hawks fans live with no regrets. They were a dynasty and just about won 3 straight cups. They hit the jackpot drafting both Toews and Kane and they got 3 cups from it. Every team has to rebuild eventually.

 

[bsu]

The Sharks' website is an utter tire fire these days with how bad they are about posting useful news or info in a timely fashion. Is the uniform reveal even up yet? The morning after it still wasn't.

He said playoff team

A playoff team.

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Just skimmed through the thread, it's hilarious seeing all the Toronto fans try to chirp Ottawa fans like Toronto has done anything at all recently, like literally anything at all

Maple Leafs are literally the Cowboys of the NHL. Fanbases and everything are similar, every year it's their year until it's not.... every single time.

Ottawa should try to trade for Chychrun, they got an up and coming team.

 

[Voight]

I think their is some mis-perception on AZ’s ask. AZ is expecting to be properly (highly) compensated for taking on a bad contract.

It seems the price is still high even without a bad contract coming back. Or if its a bad contract with only this season left on it, no need to gouge.

And what do you think is a fair trade offer?

Unproven Nils Lundqvist just garnered a 2023 protected 1st.
Seth Jones (with 1 year left on his contract) and the 32nd pick garnered top prospect Bogvist + 2 1sts and a second.

I think Chychyrun falls somewhere between those 2 deals.

At least a first round pick but asking for that + a teams top prospect is a bit much. Maybe a 1st with a lower ranked prospect. He does have a good contract, but hes been hurt a lot and it remains to be seen if his 2021 season is a sign of more to come or an outlier.

 

[hbk]

It seems the price is still high even without a bad contract coming back. Or if its a bad contract with only this season left on it, no need to gouge.




At least a first round pick but asking for that + a teams top prospect is a bit much. Maybe a 1st with a lower ranked prospect. He does have a good contract, but hes been hurt a lot and it remains to be seen if his 2021 season is a sign of more to come or an outlier.

Price is apparently the equivalent of what San Jose paid when they acquired Burns from Minni when he was a young player coming off shoulder surgery and multiple concussions.

 

[KevinRedkey]

What do you think the cap will be next year?

Have you generated a roster with salaries for all 22 players you think will be on team plus the retain $s and buyouts? It's really an informative & necessary exercise if you haven't.

I have. Moving on..

 

[UglyPuckling]

I have. Moving on..

Can you share?