Rumor: Jakob Chychrun wants to be traded to a playoff team

[Homesick]

Edm fans are forced to accept their Blueline, not because they're wanting to be happy with it.

Keith retiring left a massive hole on their team. At many times last season he was their #1 dman.

No he wasn't. He played a lot of minutes in December/January because the Oilers had a lot if injuries. They also went like 2-13 in that time

 

[SR]

Edm fans are forced to accept their Blueline, not because they're wanting to be happy with it.

Keith retiring left a massive hole on their team. At many times last season he was their #1 dman.


Hawks fans live with no regrets. They were a dynasty and just about won 3 straight cups. They hit the jackpot drafting both Toews and Kane and they got 3 cups from it. Every team has to rebuild eventually.

Right. I understand that. What was the point shitting on Arizona then?

 

[lanky]

Why doesn't he just play really well and make Arizona a playoff team? Won't have to deal with the hassle of moving.

If the Coyotes go ahead with a goalie tandem of Jon Gillies and Karel Vejmelka then playoffs are really out of reach.

 

[PainForShane]

I'll keep this post short as I feel I'll just be repeating myself & I understand that long posts can be tedious to read.

1. I never said it will be easy to dump Zaitsev. What I did say is the cost will be lower next year when he only has one year left on his contract, especially after his signing bonus is paid. It will cost something, but less than it would if he had 2 years of term remaining. By some of your own fans metrics one year of cap for Zaitsev = 2nd round pick. So 2 years = Qty two 2nd round picks, 1 year = Qty one 2nd round pick. I'm not trying to identify the exact return here. I'm just demonstrating the concept.

2. By major roster surgery I mean that the Senators will not by keeping all the players they'd like to in 2023-24 (i.e., Debrincat, Zub, etc.) if they also have to pay Chychrun's AAV. I have a spreadsheet, but including it will result in a real long post. You can visit the Senators website and see the spreadsheet & exact numbers. I'll give you the name of the thread and the post # if you'd like. This is simple stuff and all the players with expiring contracts and everything else has already been incorporated. Nothing has been missed.

The other thing is that if Dorion was willing to move Sanderson, Grieg or Pinto, the deal would have been done in the summer. There would have been absolutely nothing stopping him from pulling the trigger. I think the team is poised to run with mixing in their 2 good prospects in JBD and Thomson in to the lineup both of whom are RDs.

All good -- we're at the point where we can decide to disagree if we want.

1) Maybe I misspoke, you're right that you didn't assume it would be easy to dump Zaitsev but you are assuming it is 100% possible without a Chych trade (within reason). I mean obviously it's possible but imo there's a good chance the price will be so high a dump won't happen. Two examples are TOR and FLA (before the Tkatchuk trade), anyone doing a similar spreadsheet would assume you'd just subtract Kerfoot and Hornqvist bc you'd think those would be the easiest players to move. Unfortunately Kerfoot is still on TOR (in response it looks like they're just not going to sign Sandin), FLA thought it'd be better to basically throw in Weegar to the MTK deal rather than pay whatever it would cost to dump Hornqvist for only one year. Both only have a year left on their deals rather than two.

Anyway I think (as does everyone else) that you should be able to easily include a Zaitsev cap dump in a Chych deal, but if Chych gets traded somewhere else I think there's a legitimate chance the cost of dumping will be so high you'll decide it'd be less painful to just keep Zaitsev / make the cap work some other way (much like TOR and FLA are doing this season). In which case you'd be at that 85-86m level anyway.

2) If you'd otherwise be stuck w Zaitsev, in terms of CAP ONLY, including Pinto in a deal for Chych (along with Zaitsev and maybe another good but not great prospect like Brannstrom) would I think be the simplest way to relieve some cap. In this situation a Chychrun trade would obviously help, not hurt OTT's cap situation.

3) If Chych ends up being traded somewhere else, I could easily see a situation where OTT ends up deciding to trade Matthieu Joseph for an ok return to a team like Detroit rather than have to pay whatever Zaitsev's dumping cost ends up being (which ofc it will be lower next summer just like Kerfoot's is right now).

4) If you're assuming you'll 100% be able to dump Zaitsev (outside of a Chych deal) then ofc adding a 4.6m player for 3 years makes your cap harder to juggle, that's not at all what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that I don't think it's that simple to dump bad contracts (and the TOR / FLA fans who are paying attention would likely agree with me), assuming a Zaitsev dump as given is not something I personally would be comfortable assuming.

Thx for the good discussion!

 

[KevinRedkey]

Can you share?

I've shared multiple times. Check my post history for an excel picture of it all.

I have the Sens at ~84.100 next year with a 23-man roster including one of Zaitsev or Chychrun. They could save ~0.900 if they run a 22-man roster, bringing down the total to 83.200

If the cap doesn't go up that much, they can save ~1.600 by trading Formenton (based on my personal contract predictions for him) and playing Greig on his ELC instead. That would make them cap compliant in today's cap world.

FWIW I have DeBrincat, Formenton, Pinto, and Zub resigning at 16.200 combined which one could argue is a little optimistic though. Time will tell.

Either way I've done the math.

PS: Buying out Del Zotto was a mistake (0.750 cap hit next year). That cap space could have gone a long way next year. Could even be the difference between being able to keep DeBrincat and needing to trade him.

 

[GCK]

It’s usually a “big pile” in these blockbusters. So I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens.

However, I have to say that while I can appreciate taking Sanderson off the table and can even sympathize with a Pinto/Greig being off the table, us reaching a point where it’s Sanderson AND Pinto AND Greig AND Sogaard off the table feels a bit miserly and not conducive to a deal ever getting done.

Sanderson and Pinto are roster players so they aren’t going anywhere. Ottawa needs ELCs next year to be cap compliant so no Greig. Honestly if you like Knies + a late 2023 1st and part time player in Muzzin + a dump of Kerfoot I’m sure the leafs would be all over it.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Rumor: People in Hell want ice water

 

[rt]

Sanderson and Pinto are roster players so they aren’t going anywhere. Ottawa needs ELCs next year to be cap compliant so no Greig. Honestly if you like Knies + a late 2023 1st and part time player in Muzzin + a dump of Kerfoot I’m sure the leafs would be all over it.

I sure hope the Leafs would be all over that. I want Knies and a 1st and a dump not as noxious as Zaitsev.

 

[Schemp]

Rumor: People in Hell want ice water

Fact: There's no hockey in hell

 

[UglyPuckling]

All good -- we're at the point where we can decide to disagree if we want.

1) Maybe I misspoke, you're right that you didn't assume it would be easy to dump Zaitsev but you are assuming it is 100% possible without a Chych trade (within reason). I mean obviously it's possible but imo there's a good chance the price will be so high a dump won't happen. Two examples are TOR and FLA (before the Tkatchuk trade), anyone doing a similar spreadsheet would assume you'd just subtract Kerfoot and Hornqvist bc you'd think those would be the easiest players to move. Unfortunately Kerfoot is still on TOR (in response it looks like they're just not going to sign Sandin), FLA thought it'd be better to basically throw in Weegar to the MTK deal rather than pay whatever it would cost to dump Hornqvist for only one year. Both only have a year left on their deals rather than two.

Anyway I think (as does everyone else) that you should be able to easily include a Zaitsev cap dump in a Chych deal, but if Chych gets traded somewhere else I think there's a legitimate chance the cost of dumping will be so high you'll decide it'd be less painful to just keep Zaitsev / make the cap work some other way (much like TOR and FLA are doing this season). In which case you'd be at that 85-86m level anyway.

2) If you'd otherwise be stuck w Zaitsev, in terms of CAP ONLY, including Pinto in a deal for Chych (along with Zaitsev and maybe another good but not great prospect like Brannstrom) would I think be the simplest way to relieve some cap. In this situation a Chychrun trade would obviously help, not hurt OTT's cap situation.

3) If Chych ends up being traded somewhere else, I could easily see a situation where OTT ends up deciding to trade Matthieu Joseph for an ok return to a team like Detroit rather than have to pay whatever Zaitsev's dumping cost ends up being (which ofc it will be lower next summer just like Kerfoot's is right now).

4) If you're assuming you'll 100% be able to dump Zaitsev (outside of a Chych deal) then ofc adding a 4.6m player for 3 years makes your cap harder to juggle, that's not at all what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that I don't think it's that simple to dump bad contracts (and the TOR / FLA fans who are paying attention would likely agree with me), assuming a Zaitsev dump as given is not something I personally would be comfortable assuming.

Thx for the good discussion!

I can't really add to what I've already said without going over the same points. Waiting until the summer after the signing bonus is paid would definitely bring the price down. We moved Murray for a 3rd & a 7th, so players can be moved even when its a more difficult situation despite what HF pundits claim.

I doubt if Pinto is going to be in the trade, & ditto for Sanderson. I'm not a clairvoyant, but based on what's transpired, and the little feedback that's coming out, doesn't look like Dorion is wanting to do this. If he wanted to, it would have been done already as they've had all summer to get this done.

If we add Chychrun, its not just a little harder to "juggle" the cap. It amounts to losing another player that we wouldn't want to part with unless of course the cap is north of $86 m in 2023-24. There would also be some player subtractions to make it work this year. I can't speak for other fans. I sense by the way they talk that they haven't taken a hard look at the numbers & cap situation.

 

[UglyPuckling]

I've shared multiple times. Check my post history for an excel picture of it all.

I have the Sens at ~84.100 next year with a 23-man roster including one of Zaitsev or Chychrun. They could save ~0.900 if they run a 22-man roster, bringing down the total to 83.200

If the cap doesn't go up that much, they can save ~1.600 by trading Formenton (based on my personal contract predictions for him) and playing Greig on his ELC instead. That would make them cap compliant in today's cap world.

FWIW I have DeBrincat, Formenton, Pinto, and Zub resigning at 16.200 combined which one could argue is a little optimistic though. Time will tell.

Either way I've done the math.

PS: Buying out Del Zotto was a mistake (0.750 cap hit next year). That cap space could have gone a long way next year. Could even be the difference between being able to keep DeBrincat and needing to trade him.

I was thinking that you could provide the roster with each player and his salary (plus other necessary details like retained salary & buyouts). I'm not going through hundreds of posts to try to figure out where you might have posted this. You seem to have some ideas & say that you have an Excel sheet. So, I'd assume you think the ideas are good and wouldn't mind sharing them.

Here is where I posted the latest roster with salaries for 2023-24 which was updated after we acquired Motte -> "Free Agency Madness brought to you by the letter G"- Post #2522.

Its a $81.7 m 22 player roster with Zub resigned at $4.5 m, Zaitsev removed and no Chychrun. Debrincat has been retained at his $9.0 m Qualifying Offer. To minimize costs, I've got JBD & Thomson on defense, Sogaard as the 2nd goalie and a 4th line comprised of ELC's and/or league minimums (excluding Motte). IF I were to add Chychrun and his $4.6 m AAV we'd be at $86.3 m next year.

That's why I'm a little curious to see how you get one more player (23 player roster) and with Chychrun (or Zaitsev included) for $84.1 m. It's a discussion board, so I'm just interested in seeing your ideas and comparing them to mine. There's always potential to learn something & of course, its fun to discuss.

Ironically, I think discussions or assumptions about Ottawa spending to the cap ceiling is likely misplaced. The only indications we have is that we won't spend to cap ceiling unless we are selling out all of the games.

 

[Salva Mea]

from sens, this year 1 round pick ( top 3 protect) + 24s second round pick + docker + osta + rabbit

 

[rt]

from sens, this year 1 round pick ( top 3 protect) + 24s second round pick + docker + osta + rabbit

Replace docker Sogaard

 

[Golden_Jet]

I was thinking that you could provide the roster with each player and his salary (plus other necessary details like retained salary & buyouts). I'm not going through hundreds of posts to try to figure out where you might have posted this. You seem to have some ideas & say that you have an Excel sheet. So, I'd assume you think the ideas are good and wouldn't mind sharing them.

Here is where I posted the latest roster with salaries for 2023-24 which was updated after we acquired Motte -> "Free Agency Madness brought to you by the letter G"- Post #2522.

Its a $81.7 m 22 player roster with Zub resigned at $4.5 m, Zaitsev removed and no Chychrun. Debrincat has been retained at his $9.0 m Qualifying Offer. To minimize costs, I've got JBD & Thomson on defense, Sogaard as the 2nd goalie and a 4th line comprised of ELC's and/or league minimums (excluding Motte). IF I were to add Chychrun and his $4.6 m AAV we'd be at $86.3 m next year.

That's why I'm a little curious to see how you get one more player (23 player roster) and with Chychrun (or Zaitsev included) for $84.1 m. It's a discussion board, so I'm just interested in seeing your ideas and comparing them to mine. There's always potential to learn something & of course, its fun to discuss.

You might have included it , I’m not sure, did you include retention on Murray and buyouts, and oneway contracts.

Replace docker Sogaard

No Sens need their top goalie prospect, there doesn’t seem to be a fit for Chychurn at price.

 

[UglyPuckling]

1. You might have included it , I’m not sure, did you include retention on Murray and buyouts, and oneway contracts.


No Sens need their top goalie prospect, there doesn’t seem to be a fit for Chychurn at price.

Yes, Murray's retention & all buyouts have been included.

I've posted it in the "Free Agency Madness brought to you by the letter G" thread in the Senators forum. It's post # 2522.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Muzzin+Knies+1st for Chychrun is something I’d pull the trigger on. I like Knies about the same as Greig or Neighbours. Same tier.

The Toronto 1st is nice because there’s no need to protect it.

And Muzzin is much easier to stomach as a dump than Zaitsev or Scandella because he’s only got this season remaining. If he can stay healthy, might even be able to retain 50% and flip him for another asset closer to TDL.

Knies being local, BFFs with Josh Doan, and teammates with Cooley is nice, too.

As would be seeing Ottawa get inches from Chychrun only to lose him to the hated Leafs. That would make for some seriously fun times online for a little while. Especially if Zaitsev continues to struggle and fans know he could’ve being exchanged for Chychrun if only they’d be willing to do Grieg+1st like Toronto with Knies+1st.

While I would hate to lose Knies as he seems like a perfect fit for a current need, adding Chych without touching any of Sandin, Liljegren or Niemela would likely set Toronto's defense for the next decade (add in Rielly). Unless someone bolts, the core forwards are kind of set for a decade. They'd just need to figure out the complementary pieces and goaltending but otherwise would be in a great position to ensure themselves several years of at least having a shot. To me that is important because there is a lot of luck in going all the way.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I like how when other players ask for trades everybody gets toxic but when its to get away from arizona everybody just wants to support the young man to get the hell out of there
#FreeChychrun

 

[rt]

While I would hate to lose Knies as he seems like a perfect fit for a current need, adding Chych without touching any of Sandin, Liljegren or Niemela would likely set Toronto's defense for the next decade (add in Rielly). Unless someone bolts, the core forwards are kind of set for a decade. They'd just need to figure out the complementary pieces and goaltending but otherwise would be in a great position to ensure themselves several years of at least having a shot. To me that is important because there is a lot of luck in going all the way.

Let’s get it done.

 

[hbk]

PHNX interview with Portzline yesterday and they made reference to a player (who is very obviously Chychrun judging by the reactions/phrasing) who bristled at the notion of being moved to Columbus only to reach out after the Gaudreau signing basically hoping to see if the deal can happen.

Tell you what if the agent can get an audience with Columbus I would not be surprised if this comes together quickly given that AZ and Columbus were extremely close to having a deal done at the draft until Columbus was made aware that Chychrun didn't want to play there.

Here's the interview:

 

[Dr Amazing204]

Stanley cup winners JT Compher and Sam Girard for Jakob Chychrun and Clayton Keller haha.

 

[stevo61]

PHNX interview with Portzline yesterday and they made reference to a player (who is very obviously Chychrun judging by the reactions/phrasing) who bristled at the notion of being moved to Columbus only to reach out after the Gaudreau signing basically hoping to see if the deal can happen.

Tell you what if the agent can get an audience with Columbus I would not be surprised if this comes together quickly given that AZ and Columbus were extremely close to having a deal done at the draft until Columbus was made aware that Chychrun didn't want to play there.

Here's the interview:

I just wonder if the later 1st round pick in last draft was involved and it changes everything. Columbus may not be willing to part with next years pick or they simply may not want to add more cap now that things have worked out the way the did

 

[rt]

PHNX interview with Portzline yesterday and they made reference to a player (who is very obviously Chychrun judging by the reactions/phrasing) who bristled at the notion of being moved to Columbus only to reach out after the Gaudreau signing basically hoping to see if the deal can happen.

Tell you what if the agent can get an audience with Columbus I would not be surprised if this comes together quickly given that AZ and Columbus were extremely close to having a deal done at the draft until Columbus was made aware that Chychrun didn't want to play there.

Here's the interview:

I think Jarmo’s chest thumping after the Gaudreau signing was, at least in part, a big F-U to the Chychrun camp. That was also prior to giving Gudbranson 16 million dollars for some insane reason (which helped sign Johnny so maybe worth it).

 

[hbk]

I just wonder if the later 1st round pick in last draft was involved and it changes everything. Columbus may not be willing to part with next years pick or they simply may not want to add more cap now that things have worked out the way the did

I think if the return is picks. The return can still be picks. I don't think AZ can all of a sudden demand Jiricek but they may be more willing because of Jiricek to include Ceulemons as the D prospect.

 

[stevo61]

I think if the return is picks. The return can still be picks. I don't think AZ can all of a sudden demand Jiricek but they may be more willing because of Jiricek to include Ceulemons as the D prospect.

Which as a Columbus fan I think is stupid. Personally I hope Ceulemans isnt even a consideration on Jarmo's end. Bean/Boqvist, 1st, pick or prospect

 

[stevo61]

I think Jarmo’s chest thumping after the Gaudreau signing was, at least in part, a big F-U to the Chychrun camp. That was also prior to giving Gudbranson 16 million dollars for some insane reason (which helped sign Johnny so maybe worth it).

Eh it was probably more to the media. Everyone knows Chychrun wants to play meaningful hockey and Columbus didnt do that last year but obviously you dont add Gaudreau and not drastically improve your outlook. I dont think you can be that petty in this buisness. If a trade makes sense in Jarmo's eyes I doubt he'd hesitate to make the deal. Just leave Ceulemans name out of it