Player Discussion Jake Virtanen, Pt. XXI

[StreetHawk]

wow, i didnt know that. I thought that if a team and player both want to part ways via retirement, then thats their right, regardless of what monies have been paid

How bad a precedent would it be if the NHL allowed what you are suggesting? David Backes could walk away from the final year of his deal too. NHL will fight to have the SB returned. I believe the poster Mouser said on the business section, that the NFL won in court that SB are prorated over the life of the contract. That's why the Detroit Lions were able to recover SB from Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson when they retired early. And these are guys without guaranteed contracts.

Kovy with LA the NHL let him keep the bonus. I suspect because LA had to take the full cap hit anyways. Different situation with Loui as he doesn't have a 35+ contract nor does he contract factor into recapture conditions.

But, this is the NHL, so I suppose it is possible. I can't recall a scenario where a player retired with term on his contract with a SB paid. Maybe the precedence has already been set, but I can't recall a player in that situation.

 

[vanuck]

William Nylander and Nik Ehlers?

For some reason some like to use tiny sample sizes to make sweeping judgments of players who have proven they are far superior over a much larger historical record. It's 2019... c'mon people.

I didn't like the pick at the time and thought we made the wrong call over Ehlers/Nylander even though I'm liking his growth thus far. But let's not pretend he's a better player than those 2. This is his D+6 and is most likely already close to his prime.

Some rare PP time in the 1st.

Nice little run he’s on of 14 points in his last 15 games. Seems like he’s really playing with some rare confidence.

It's high time Green moved him onto Horvat's line and give him a bigger dose of minutes. He looks ready for it and is already showing he has some utility when given PP time. It'd be a better deployment choice than having Eriksson there for example.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Gaudette is a 10.2c contract. Really has no actual RFA rights.

He's not an RFA? What the heck is his status then?

 

[Fraser28]

This is what i'd like go see next year

Assuming Ferland gets healthy and we can find a legit 2nd liner for Horvat.

Miller Petey Boeser
??? Horvat Ferland
Pearson Gaudette Virtanen
Roussel Sutter Leivo

Thats an effective 3rd and 4th line.
Just need the right winger for Horvat.

I think Hoglander will make the Canucks next year and work his way into the Top 6.

 

[VanJack]

Virtanen's breakthrough year gives you some hope for Juolevi.....sometimes it just takes three or four years for a teenager to figure it out in pro hockey.

In both cases, the basic tools are there. They wouldn't have been top-10 picks if they weren't. But sometimes the seemingly hopeless hurdles in the early years get conquered, and a productive player emerges on the other side.

 

[Raistlin]

Dal Colle says hi!

 

[alicia]

Production aside, it's fun to see Jake with his snarl slowly returning. I've watched a few moments where he gets into corners and wins battles just based on his aggression. He's needed to be a mean player for awhile and now that he's finding his confidence again, the points are following.

Happy side story for the season so far. Excited to see if he can keep it up, I've always believed in Virtanen to put it together.

 

[rypper]

He's not an RFA? What the heck is his status then?

He is an RFA just not the usual status. Boeser was a 10.2c RFA this off season as well.

What is a 10.2(c) player?

A player becomes a free agent when their contract expires on July 1 after the last League Year of their contract. A player who does not meet the UFA requirements or the Group 2 RFA requirements displayed in the table above, and has been issued a qualifying offer, is designated a 10.2(c) player. The player is only eligible to negotiate and sign a contract with the club that holds their signing rights. They are ineligible to negotiate a contract (offer sheet) with any other club. They are also ineligible for arbitration. If the player does not receive a qualifying offer by June 25th at 5:00pm ET, they immediately become a UFA.

 

[Horse McHindu]

He is an RFA just not the usual status. Boeser was a 10.2c RFA this off season as well.

Thank you for posting that.

So JV will be a 10.2c RFA?

That’s not too bad then. I thought he was going to be Group 2 for some reason.

 

[rypper]

Thank you for posting that.

So JV will be a 10.2c RFA?

That’s not too bad then. I thought he was going to be Group 2 for some reason.

No he was asking about Adam Gaudette. Jake Virtanen is a your run of the mill regular RFA status with arbitration rights.

 

[DL44]

10gms, 2g 2a, 4pts
10gms, 4g 1a, 5pts
10gms, 1g 5a, 6pts
10gms, 5g 3a, 8pts

That's the type of progression and consistency you love to see building.
He'll go as the Canucks go this season...

 

[StreetHawk]

No he was asking about Adam Gaudette. Jake Virtanen is a your run of the mill regular RFA status with arbitration rights.

His will be a fight to keep it down if the Canucks can't move out some contracts. Right now, most posters are thinking about the UFAs of Markstrom and then Tanev. But, slowly and quietly, Jake is putting up numbers.

Jake Debrusk, kind of similar to Jake in that there were better offensive options taken after him (Barzal, Connor, Chabot, etc.), but he's simply playing his game. 43 PTs in 70 games, 42 PTS in 68 games, and currently 20 in 35. Pretty consistent in his production. No bump.

In the off-season, that's who I think JV needed to produce like. We know Debrusk plays a more feisty in your face type of game.

If he puts up 20 goals and 40 odd points, it's going to be a contract that the Canucks need to find cap space to fit. JT Compher of Colorado signed for 4 years at $3.5 mill per coming out of ELC. Year 2 he put up 23 Points in 69 games and then 32 points in 66 games. Currently at 20 points in 36 games. Good that Jake is playing better, but just tightens the cap crunch.

 

[4Twenty]

His will be a fight to keep it down if the Canucks can't move out some contracts. Right now, most posters are thinking about the UFAs of Markstrom and then Tanev. But, slowly and quietly, Jake is putting up numbers.

Jake Debrusk, kind of similar to Jake in that there were better offensive options taken after him (Barzal, Connor, Chabot, etc.), but he's simply playing his game. 43 PTs in 70 games, 42 PTS in 68 games, and currently 20 in 35. Pretty consistent in his production. No bump.

In the off-season, that's who I think JV needed to produce like. We know Debrusk plays a more feisty in your face type of game.

If he puts up 20 goals and 40 odd points, it's going to be a contract that the Canucks need to find cap space to fit. JT Compher of Colorado signed for 4 years at $3.5 mill per coming out of ELC. Year 2 he put up 23 Points in 69 games and then 32 points in 66 games. Currently at 20 points in 36 games. Good that Jake is playing better, but just tightens the cap crunch.

Exactly. Jake and has already signed a 2 year “bridge”. He’s got two RFA years left.

He can possibly take the team to arbitration get a 2 year deal and become a UFA at 26. I wouldn’t be surprised if he got $4m from an arbitrator if he has 20 goals and 40 points.

Good on Jake for making this a conversation but this just makes improving the team beyond what it is currently even harder for next season.

 

[StreetHawk]

Exactly. Jake and has already signed a 2 year “bridge”. He’s got two RFA years left.

He can possibly take the team to arbitration get a 2 year deal and become a UFA at 26. I wouldn’t be surprised if he got $4m from an arbitrator if he has 20 goals and 40 points.

Good on Jake for making this a conversation but this just makes improving the team beyond what it is currently even harder for next season.

Team decides on term for arbitration award. Canucks would not do anything other than a 1 year deal. Allows them to negotiate again in January 2021 rather than July 2021.

Need a miracle of Eriksson walking away in order to not move out one of Benning's guys of Sutter/Pearson. Best case on Sven is that they take back a contract which they either buyout or bury in the A that is less than the cost of doing that to Sven. Playing in the A all season won't increase his trade value in terms of assets. But, you're hoping that he is someone a team takes a shot with. He costs $2.3 mili in cap to bury in the A or $1.75 mill to buyout next season. So, taking back a contract/retaining appear to be the best options to reduce that cap hit.

 

[Bankerguy]

I think Hoglander will make the Canucks next year and work his way into the Top 6.

it would be utterly amazing if he could step in next year and contribute what you'd want from a second line winger.
If he pots 40 points playing alongside Horvat, that would help the team so much, not only in scoring but also in having an entry level contract on the team which helps with the cap.

 

[4Twenty]

Team decides on term for arbitration award. Canucks would not do anything other than a 1 year deal. Allows them to negotiate again in January 2021 rather than July 2021.

Need a miracle of Eriksson walking away in order to not move out one of Benning's guys of Sutter/Pearson. Best case on Sven is that they take back a contract which they either buyout or bury in the A that is less than the cost of doing that to Sven. Playing in the A all season won't increase his trade value in terms of assets. But, you're hoping that he is someone a team takes a shot with. He costs $2.3 mili in cap to bury in the A or $1.75 mill to buyout next season. So, taking back a contract/retaining appear to be the best options to reduce that cap hit.

Is there any precedent to doing what you’re suggesting with Baertschi? I think they’ll have to buy him out themselves as they did with Ryan Spooner.

I truly hope Loui just hangs them up or finds a Seabrook way to LTI.

 

[StreetHawk]

Is there any precedent to doing what you’re suggesting with Baertschi? I think they’ll have to buy him out themselves as they did with Ryan Spooner.

I truly hope Loui just hangs them up or finds a Seabrook way to LTI.

With Sven, I'm just listing the options that they have with him. All of possible. They can buy him out, but, his contract was front loaded, not evenly paid out. So, the Canucks have to take a cap hit for the money they already paid him.
1) Bury in the A again costs them the same $2.3 mill in dead cap like it does this season
2) Buyout costs them $1.75 mill in dead cap because his salary next season is $2.4 mill. So that's $800K plus the $900K that they have frontloaded him in the first 2 years. Leaves $800K to take in 21-22 season.
3) trade him to another team for a contract that you can buyout or bury that costs less than option 1 or 2. Otherwise, you can retain up to what it costs you in a buyout, thus you are free from the $800K in dead cap for 21-22 season.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Good to see Virtanen doing well ..(one prominent poster here still thinks that Sam Bennett is the better player..?..)..Clearly, maturation as a person, and a player play a big role.

 

[IgorGonzola]

Good to see Virtanen doing well ..(one prominent poster here still thinks that Sam Bennett is the better player..?..)..Clearly, maturation as a person, and a player play a big role.

Sam Bennett - 3 goals 2 assists. It’s not looking good for Sam.

 

[StreetHawk]

Sam Bennett - 3 goals 2 assists. It’s not looking good for Sam.

He turned more into a physical player which initially I thought was odd, but looking at his OHL draft year numbers, he put up 91 point in 57 games with 118 PIMs so there was either a tonne of bad penalties or there was bite to his game. Yet, he couldn't do a pull up at the combine. figured he would have needed to be stronger to back up the PIMs.

 

[IgorGonzola]

He turned more into a physical player which initially I thought was odd, but looking at his OHL draft year numbers, he put up 91 point in 57 games with 118 PIMs so there was either a tonne of bad penalties or there was bite to his game. Yet, he couldn't do a pull up at the combine. figured he would have needed to be stronger to back up the PIMs.

His OHL numbers are staggering good but it also brings to point that Melvin’s Potato theory isn’t quite as bullet proof as one would expect.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Virtanen's breakthrough year gives you some hope for Juolevi.....sometimes it just takes three or four years for a teenager to figure it out in pro hockey.

In both cases, the basic tools are there. They wouldn't have been top-10 picks if they weren't. But sometimes the seemingly hopeless hurdles in the early years get conquered, and a productive player emerges on the other side.

Not to turn this into the OJ thread, but Juolevi has still got plenty of runway to turn into a legit NHL player..He's only six months older than Elias Pettersson.

Juolevi and Virtanen are almost mirror opposites...One has more IQ,and less physicality...and the other has the physicality, and lower IQ

Neither player will be a 'home run' pick..but can definitely be key pieces moving forward.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

He turned more into a physical player which initially I thought was odd, but looking at his OHL draft year numbers, he put up 91 point in 57 games with 118 PIMs so there was either a tonne of bad penalties or there was bite to his game. Yet, he couldn't do a pull up at the combine. figured he would have needed to be stronger to back up the PIMs.

Bennett definitely had a lot of bite to his game in Junior. He couldn’t do a pull up because he was hiding a serious shoulder injury that needed surgery and ended up derailing his entire D+1 season because he refused to get surgery in the offseason like he should have. He was subsequently rushed into the NHL as an 18 year old and was forced into a bottom 6 role which is no bueno for a young offensive player.

 

[RussianRacket]

Bennett definitely had a lot of bite to his game in Junior. He couldn’t do a pull up because he was hiding a serious shoulder injury that needed surgery and ended up derailing his entire D+1 season because he refused to get surgery in the offseason like he should have. He was subsequently rushed into the NHL as an 18 year old and was forced into a bottom 6 role which is no bueno for a young offensive player.

Are we sure he was 18 years old when he began in the NHL? Why didn't anyone tell us!

 

[IgorGonzola]

He was subsequently rushed into the NHL as an 18 year old and was forced into a bottom 6 role which is no bueno for a young offensive player.

Not as 18 year olds but this seems to be a bone of contention regarding Virtanen and McCann and how some feel very strongly that they were rushed into the NHL but not as 18 year olds like Bennett but maybe that is the difference - what ages they were rushed in at cause certainly Virtanen and McCann seem to be fairing well these days compared to Sam. It looks pretty grave for Sam right now