Player Discussion Jake Virtanen, Pt. XXI

[canuckking1]

Would walk him to UFA wouldn’t it?

Yep

I see then I’d probably be looking at a 4 year contract.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Excuse me

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Gaudette is coming on too lately. he'll want real money to play nest year as well. Looks like next year is the crunch year for all our bad free agent contracts. Don't see a way to fit Tanev and Markstrom in.

It's good though, you should have to pay for making the same mistakes over and over again. it just wouldn't be fair otherwise.

 

[StreetHawk]

Gaudette is coming on too lately. he'll want real money to play nest year as well. Looks like next year is the crunch year for all our bad free agent contracts. Don't see a way to fit Tanev and Markstrom in.

It's good though, you should have to pay for making the same mistakes over and over again. it just wouldn't be fair otherwise.

Can't keep adding without moving something out. That's been the issue. Pitt moved Gudbranson for nothing, but got the entire contract off the books. Cap space was the return.

See what Benning can do with regards to Sutter, Pearson, Sven (probably needs retention, but will still see a cap savings if moved) who have a year left. Better chances to get moved when it's just a 1 year commitment. Though, he'd have to find a defensive C to cover for Beagle and you can't trust him remaining healthy if he moves Sutter.

 

[Yultron]

Gaudette is coming on too lately. he'll want real money to play nest year as well. Looks like next year is the crunch year for all our bad free agent contracts. Don't see a way to fit Tanev and Markstrom in.

It's good though, you should have to pay for making the same mistakes over and over again. it just wouldn't be fair otherwise.

We need to buy out Eriksson to free up 3 million , it will be painful but it needs to happen we can’t keep him two more seasons a 6 million AAV , and with Leivo, Shaller and Tanev coming off the books that also frees up a little over 8 million so I a, very confident they can bring back Gaudette and Virtanen at reasonable cap hits and resign Markstrom around 5 million AAV.

 

[Yultron]

Can't keep adding without moving something out. That's been the issue. Pitt moved Gudbranson for nothing, but got the entire contract off the books. Cap space was the return.

See what Benning can do with regards to Sutter, Pearson, Sven (probably needs retention, but will still see a cap savings if moved) who have a year left. Better chances to get moved when it's just a 1 year commitment. Though, he'd have to find a defensive C to cover for Beagle and you can't trust him remaining healthy if he moves Sutter.

I would keep Pearson until Podkolzin comes over and he can play with Bo. Pearson is on pace for 54 points so keep him with Captain Horvat they have great chemistry

 

[timw33]

We need to buy out Eriksson to free up 3 million , it will be painful but it needs to happen we can’t keep him two more seasons a 6 million AAV , and with Leivo, Shaller and Tanev coming off the books that also frees up a little over 8 million so I a, very confident they can bring back Gaudette and Virtanen at reasonable cap hits and resign Markstrom around 5 million AAV.

We'd save $333,000 in cap space next year if we bought out Eriksson this summer. It's a buyout proof contract.

$333k savings 20-21, $2.33MM savings in 21-22.

 

[Yultron]

We'd save $333,000 in cap space next year if we bought out Eriksson this summer. It's a buyout proof contract.

$333k savings 20-21, $2.33MM savings in 21-22.

Thanks for that, I still think we need to rid our selves of that contract instead of keeping it and it looks like a buyout is the only way to get out of it

 

[4Twenty]

Gaudette is coming on too lately. he'll want real money to play nest year as well. Looks like next year is the crunch year for all our bad free agent contracts. Don't see a way to fit Tanev and Markstrom in.

It's good though, you should have to pay for making the same mistakes over and over again. it just wouldn't be fair otherwise.

Gaudette is a 10.2c contract. Really has no actual RFA rights.

 

[StreetHawk]

We need to buy out Eriksson to free up 3 million , it will be painful but it needs to happen we can’t keep him two more seasons a 6 million AAV , and with Leivo, Shaller and Tanev coming off the books that also frees up a little over 8 million so I a, very confident they can bring back Gaudette and Virtanen at reasonable cap hits and resign Markstrom around 5 million AAV.

You understand how buyouts are calculated right? 3 parts to it.

1) Signing Bonus - 100% hit the cap. He has $3 million in July and another $1 million in 2021.
2) Any cash paid to player above cap hit taken up to the time you decide to buy the player out. Eriksson will have been paid $28 million and the Canucks have taken $24 million in cap hit. Leaves $4 million to be allocated evenly between his final 2 contract years.
3) Remaining salary to be bought out. $4 million total. So, $2.67 mill allocated over 4 years. $667K per year.

So, next season the Canucks eat the $3 mill SB, the $2 mill in cash paid over cap hit, and $667K of the salary buyout. Total of $5.67 million in dead cap space. There is no $3 million savings next year. Barely $300K.

What would be year 6 of his contract, there is a $1 mill SB, $2 mill cash paid over cap hit, and $667K of salary buyout. $3.67 million for that year.

Then 2 years of just the salary buyout of $667K.

Thus, why his contract is called buyout proof. Minimal to no cap hit savings.

 

[StreetHawk]

Gaudette is a 10.2c contract. Really has no actual RFA rights.

In simple terms for everyone, he is not eligible for salary arbitration or eligible to receive an offer sheet.

Basically, same situation as Brock Boeser was in this past summer.

 

[4Twenty]

In simple terms for everyone, he is not eligible for salary arbitration or eligible to receive an offer sheet.

Basically, same situation as Brock Boeser was in this past summer.

Without the multiple years of 1st line production. I’d be surprised if Gaudette got more than the $1.25 Jake Is currently on unless the team wants to give him a couple year bridge then maybe $2m?

 

[Bankerguy]

This is what i'd like go see next year

Assuming Ferland gets healthy and we can find a legit 2nd liner for Horvat.

Miller Petey Boeser
??? Horvat Ferland
Pearson Gaudette Virtanen
Roussel Sutter Leivo

Thats an effective 3rd and 4th line.
Just need the right winger for Horvat.

 

[StreetHawk]

Without the multiple years of 1st line production. I’d be surprised if Gaudette got more than the $1.25 Jake Is currently on unless the team wants to give him a couple year bridge then maybe $2m?

I think he gets a 2 year deal. Likely around the Leivo amount. Have to really look at other guys in the same situation and what they got. A 2 year deal would be under $2 mill per. But, that's all dependent on whether Jim is able to move contracts out.

He can't let his pride get in the way if the best offer for Sutter is a 7th rounder, with no retention, like the Gudbranson deal between Pitt/Ana. Need the cap space.

 

[4Twenty]

I think he gets a 2 year deal. Likely around the Leivo amount. Have to really look at other guys in the same situation and what they got. A 2 year deal would be under $2 mill per. But, that's all dependent on whether Jim is able to move contracts out.

He can't let his pride get in the way if the best offer for Sutter is a 7th rounder, with no retention, like the Gudbranson deal between Pitt/Ana. Need the cap space.

I’m not convinced they want to move Sutter.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Gaudette is coming on too lately. he'll want real money to play nest year as well. Looks like next year is the crunch year for all our bad free agent contracts. Don't see a way to fit Tanev and Markstrom in.

It's good though, you should have to pay for making the same mistakes over and over again. it just wouldn't be fair otherwise.

Be nice if the league cancel that stupid rule of long term contract penalty
We are stilling paying 3m to Luongo for 2 more years after this year

 

[Yultron]

This is what i'd like go see next year

Assuming Ferland gets healthy and we can find a legit 2nd liner for Horvat.

Miller Petey Boeser
??? Horvat Ferland
Pearson Gaudette Virtanen
Roussel Sutter Leivo

Thats an effective 3rd and 4th line.
Just need the right winger for Horvat.

Why would we remove Pearson from the 2nd line and hand Ferland a top 6 spot? Pearson belongs in the top 6 and is on pace for 54 points while Ferland has never eclipsed 42 points, Switch Ferland and Pearson and I like it

 

[StreetHawk]

This is what i'd like go see next year

Assuming Ferland gets healthy and we can find a legit 2nd liner for Horvat.

Miller Petey Boeser
??? Horvat Ferland
Pearson Gaudette Virtanen
Roussel Sutter Leivo

Thats an effective 3rd and 4th line.
Just need the right winger for Horvat.

So, we have to assume Eriksson and Beagle make up the remaining 2 spots?

If I say estimate $1.2-$1.5 for Gaudette and $2-2.25 for Jake, those 11 forwards come to around $37 million. Plus Eriksson and Beagle it's $46 million with 1 spot open. $38 million left on an $84 mill cap, but with Spooner and Lu costing $4 mill that's $34 million only. Less whatever rookie bonuses get carried over.

Edler/Myers/Benn/Hughes/Demko come in around $16 mill. So, $18 mill left (minus rookie bonuses) to pay 3 Dmen, 1 Goalie, that final forward and Sven's $3.3 cap hit.

Realistically, Sven, if they retained 1/3, can move him. Buyout isn't great as they frontloaded his contract. Think one of Sutter/Pearson have to go to free up cap space.

 

[Bankerguy]

Why would we remove Pearson from the 2nd line and hand Ferland a top 6 spot? Pearson belongs in the top 6 and is on pace for 54 points while Ferland has never eclipsed 42 points, Switch Ferland and Pearson and I like it

I feel like Pearson would produce the same with Gaudette and Jake., it also spreads out the hitting/toughness having him and virtanen on seperate lines.
I dont see ferland fitting in on the 4th line either.
He's best suited being the grit on a skilled line. He was at his best doing this in Cal and Car.
If he finds his game... then i'd love to see him tried again as 2RW. The more important thing though is finding a legit 2nd liner for Horvat's left side

 

[4Twenty]

So, we have to assume Eriksson and Beagle make up the remaining 2 spots?

If I say estimate $1.2-$1.5 for Gaudette and $2-2.25 for Jake, those 11 forwards come to around $37 million. Plus Eriksson and Beagle it's $46 million with 1 spot open. $38 million left on an $84 mill cap, but with Spooner and Lu costing $4 mill that's $34 million only. Less whatever rookie bonuses get carried over.

Edler/Myers/Benn/Hughes/Demko come in around $16 mill. So, $18 mill left (minus rookie bonuses) to pay 3 Dmen, 1 Goalie, that final forward and Sven's $3.3 cap hit.

Realistically, Sven, if they retained 1/3, can move him. Buyout isn't great as they frontloaded his contract. Think one of Sutter/Pearson have to go to free up cap space.

I think you’re way low on your estimation for Virtanen if he hits 20 goals.

 

[Bankerguy]

So, we have to assume Eriksson and Beagle make up the remaining 2 spots?

If I say estimate $1.2-$1.5 for Gaudette and $2-2.25 for Jake, those 11 forwards come to around $37 million. Plus Eriksson and Beagle it's $46 million with 1 spot open. $38 million left on an $84 mill cap, but with Spooner and Lu costing $4 mill that's $34 million only. Less whatever rookie bonuses get carried over.

Edler/Myers/Benn/Hughes/Demko come in around $16 mill. So, $18 mill left (minus rookie bonuses) to pay 3 Dmen, 1 Goalie, that final forward and Sven's $3.3 cap hit.

Realistically, Sven, if they retained 1/3, can move him. Buyout isn't great as they frontloaded his contract. Think one of Sutter/Pearson have to go to free up cap space.

i was assumimg Louie retires afrer collecting the next chunk of his salary next year. He wont want to ride the bus in Utica afrer the career he's had

 

[M2Beezy]

Has he finally arrived?

I guess he was walking

 

[StreetHawk]

i was assumimg Louie retires afrer collecting the next chunk of his salary next year. He wont want to ride the bus in Utica afrer the career he's had

No way the NHL lets Loui collect a SB and not play next season and the Canucks don't take a cap hit. He has to walk away before that SB. Sets a bad precedent for the NHL if they allow players to get a SB and retire that season.

Kovy and Berglund who walked away from their contracts didn't have SB involved. This would be the first time it would occur.

 

[StreetHawk]

i was assumimg Louie retires afrer collecting the next chunk of his salary next year. He wont want to ride the bus in Utica afrer the career he's had

He does have arbitration rights, so it's going to be a battle if it goes there. That's why one of Pearson/Sutter have to go. No team is taking Sven's entire contract without sending something back. Or they retain a portion of it. A buyout for Sven costs them $1.75 mill next season in dead cap because his deal was front loaded. Only $2.4 mill in salary for next season on his $3.3 mill cap hit.

 

[Bankerguy]

No way the NHL lets Loui collect a SB and not play next season and the Canucks don't take a cap hit. He has to walk away before that SB. Sets a bad precedent for the NHL if they allow players to get a SB and retire that season.

Kovy and Berglund who walked away from their contracts didn't have SB involved. This would be the first time it would occur.

wow, i didnt know that. I thought that if a team and player both want to part ways via retirement, then thats their right, regardless of what monies have been paid