News Article: Jake Gardiner and the Toronto Maple Leafs blueline

[HometownHockey]

Jake Gardiner and the Toronto Maple Leafs blueline

Suggesting the Toronto Maple Leafs defence struggled during the 2013-14 season would be putting it mildly. They put up some of the worst Corsi statistics in the league, and allowed more shots on goal in an 82 game season than ever before. The result is that there are more questions being asked about this defence then there are questions being answered.

In order to try and get the best understanding of the Maple Leafs' blueline, I broke down the teams defenders over 17 statistical data points.

READ MORE...
http://www.ourhometown.ca/hockey/HH0565.php

Click to read more...

 

[HonestHockey*]

Jake Gardiner and the Toronto Maple Leafs blueline

Suggesting the Toronto Maple Leafs defence struggled during the 2013-14 season would be putting it mildly. They put up some of the worst Corsi statistics in the league, and allowed more shots on goal in an 82 game season than ever before. The result is that there are more questions being asked about this defence then there are questions being answered.

In order to try and get the best understanding of the Maple Leafs' blueline, I broke down the teams defenders over 17 statistical data points.

READ MORE...
http://www.ourhometown.ca/hockey/HH0565.php

One thing that is always missed by the analytical type is QoC calling a player "the best" while ignoring the fact he played against the second weakest competition on not only the blueline, doesn't tell the real story.

Until the Leafs pick up a couple of real defensemen who can play up in the lineup we are in tough.

 

[thewave]

From defensively inept Wilson hockey to defensively inept Carlyle hockey. Both systems criticized by their peers for leaving to much opportunity to opposing teams. Randy's system was a complete failure for the ducks as well a team that transitioned back into a contender in short order after his removal.

YET

TML management constantly blames A) Goal tending (As if 40+ saves a night is normal) and these are tenders with reasonable %s may I add. B) The blue line and the irony in this, they do not blame the system and the forwards rarely, the very same players instructed essentially to not cover sufficiently by design of the very systems in place.

So in all of their infantile wisdom they come to the conclusion that guys like Jake or whomever are now the problem.

The sheer wilful ignorance of this management is the height of stupidity with regards to anything relating to hockey/logic/common sense.

 

[HonestHockey*]

From defensively inept Wilson hockey to defensively inept Carlyle hockey. Both systems criticized by their peers for leaving to much opportunity to opposing teams. Randy's system was a complete failure for the ducks as well a team that transitioned back into a contender in short order after his removal.

YET

TML management constantly blames A) Goal tending (As if 40+ saves a night is normal) and these are tenders with reasonable %s may I add. B) The blue line and the irony in this, they do not blame the system and the forwards rarely, the very same players instructed essentially to not cover sufficiently by design of the very systems in place.

So in all of their infantile wisdom they come to the conclusion that guys like Jake or whomever are now the problem.

The sheer wilful ignorance of this management is the height of stupidity with regards to anything relating to hockey/logic/common sense.

When you have players who can't play a system layed out for them then you have a problem. You point out two coaches. When are the players accountable? Players like Gardiner cannot play the 200 foot game required. Not winning with him playing more than 15 mins a night as a 5 or 6. I for one hope he's gone.

 

[thewave]

When you have players who can't play a system layed out for them then you have a problem. You point out two coaches. When are the players accountable? Players like Gardiner cannot play the 200 foot game required. Not winning with him playing more than 15 mins a night as a 5 or 6. I for one hope he's gone.

Incorrect, the peers point out explicitly that the very system is in fact flawed.

You can not fix a flawed system with ANYONE, Hence the reason we burn through tenders and personnel to appease the wilfully ignorant powers that be whom were fixated on first Hockey USA run and gun and then Randy's Swarm.

How many players must one go through using the excuse if they would just execute the system before you come to the conclusion, this system by and large is not fit to practice in actual games.

 

[BlueBaron]

From defensively inept Wilson hockey to defensively inept Carlyle hockey. Both systems criticized by their peers for leaving to much opportunity to opposing teams. Randy's system was a complete failure for the ducks as well a team that transitioned back into a contender in short order after his removal.

YET

TML management constantly blames A) Goal tending (As if 40+ saves a night is normal) and these are tenders with reasonable %s may I add. B) The blue line and the irony in this, they do not blame the system and the forwards rarely, the very same players instructed essentially to not cover sufficiently by design of the very systems in place.

So in all of their infantile wisdom they come to the conclusion that guys like Jake or whomever are now the problem.

The sheer wilful ignorance of this management is the height of stupidity with regards to anything relating to hockey/logic/common sense.

If you consider winning the cup failure, what is your definition of success ?

 

[thewave]

If you consider winning the cup failure, what is your definition of success ?

Want to see a pattern.

Randy inherits a team that's quite stacked. Wins the cup. Has personal conflicts with certain players and the team declines every year thereafter until they are complete trash. He is fired and the team becomes a contender.

Randy inherits the leafs and in a shortened season makes the playoffs. The team fails and collapses, come the next year the same kind of decline that was on display in Ana. Is on display here including personnel problems.

Coincidence? I think not

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Gunnarsson got few tools and a solid toolbox and he knows how to use them.

Phaneuf got all the tools but no toolbox.

Franson got all the tools but no toolbox.

Rielly got all the tools and most likely have a solid toolbox and the ability to use them.

Gardiner has all the tools but so far I question if he have the toolbox to keep them in.

Ranger got a few tools and a solid toolbox and he knows how to use them.



We clearly need more toolboxes at the backend.

 

[Holymakinaw]

I think we'll see a MUCH better defence corps this upcoming season. Of course they struggled, with so many guys with so little NHL experience(Rielly, Gardiner, and even Franson to some extent didn't have much). But next year, Rielly and Gardiner should be more poised, smarter with the puck, and overall....more ready/experienced.

And hopefully Franson will be replaced by someone who can actually defend.

There's nothing wrong with Phaneuf & Gunnarsson that a bit less ice-time couldn't cure.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

I think we'll see a MUCH better defence corps this upcoming season. Of course they struggled, with so many guys with so little NHL experience(Rielly, Gardiner, and even Franson to some extent didn't have much). But next year, Rielly and Gardiner should be more poised, smarter with the puck, and overall....more ready/experienced.

And hopefully Franson will be replaced by someone who can actually defend.

There's nothing wrong with Phaneuf & Gunnarsson that a bit less ice-time couldn't cure.

So you want our $7m defender to play less then his current 23 minutes per game?

 

[thewave]

I think we'll see a MUCH better defence corps this upcoming season. Of course they struggled, with so many guys with so little NHL experience(Rielly, Gardiner, and even Franson to some extent didn't have much). But next year, Rielly and Gardiner should be more poised, smarter with the puck, and overall....more ready/experienced.

And hopefully Franson will be replaced by someone who can actually defend.

There's nothing wrong with Phaneuf & Gunnarsson that a bit less ice-time couldn't cure.

In addition they publicly acknowledged the system was a failure and it will be addressed.

Some posters here still defend it after such declarations...???

 

[TheLeafsBro]

I just want to say that Carlyle doesn't think Jake is a failure. Carlyle loves Jake and even though his 200ft game isn't there he still gets played a ton. Carlyle is trying to TEACH Gardiner that part of the game. He is Carlyle's project. I don't know why others cannot see this.

 

[Holymakinaw]

So you want our $7m defender to play less then his current 23 minutes per game?

Yes. What's wrong with that? 19-20 minutes a night might enable him to do much better, get more points, play better D because he's less tired, focus more......We've been wearing him out.

Besides.......Who cares how much he makes? That's the price in Toronto for a top-pairing D-Man.

His last contract paid him 6.5 million. Now he gets 7 million. Whoop-D-Do. He's MORE than capable of getting back to scoring 15 goals and 45-50 points for us.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Yes. What's wrong with that? 19-20 minutes a night might enable him to do much better, get more points, play better D because he's less tired, focus more......We've been wearing him out.

Besides.......Who cares how much he makes? That's the price in Toronto for a top-pairing D-Man.

His last contract paid him 6.5 million. Now he gets 7 million. Whoop-D-Do. He's MORE than capable of getting back to scoring 15 goals and 45-50 points for us.

So then some one else will pick up his minutes and take a discount on his contract to be nice?

If you pay some one top dollars that player should perform like a top player playing top minutes or else you screw up your cap situation. It would of course be nice if we could hand out player friendly contracts left and right but it does not work that way with a hard cap on salaries.

If Dion makes $7m but plays like a $5m player. Then the next $5m player wants to get paid $7m to and why shouldn't he? Dion gets paid.

 

[Holymakinaw]

So then some one else will pick up his minutes and take a discount on his contract to be nice?

If you pay some one top dollars that player should perform like a top player playing top minutes or else you screw up your cap situation. It would of course be nice if we could hand out player friendly contracts left and right but it does not work that way with a hard cap on salaries.

If Dion makes $7m but plays like a $5m player. Then the next $5m player wants to get paid $7m to and why shouldn't he? Dion gets paid.

Meh. It's hardly a surprise that the biggest market team in the NHL has to overpay many of it's stars.

So does Montreal. So does the New York. So does Chicago, Philly, Boston.....

They make money. They mostly HAVE to spend to the cap. And every player/player agent knows it.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Meh. It's hardly a surprise that the biggest market team in the NHL has to overpay many of it's stars.

So does Montreal. So does the New York. So does Chicago, Philly, Boston.....

They make money. They mostly HAVE to spend to the cap. And every player/player agent knows it.

Who have those teams overpaid for?

 

[Daisy Jane]

no - they don't have to. they could flat out say - even though we stink right now, we're an Original Six team, and we have our budget, and we're sticking to it. Players that we see as A = B, Players that we see as C =D and so forth. You're more than welcome to play for us, but if that's not agreeable to you, there's the door, and good luck with your own future aspirations in the National Hockey League.

when you overpay those who shouldn't be overpaid, it throws everything else out of balance.

 

[HonestHockey*]

Incorrect, the peers point out explicitly that the very system is in fact flawed.

You can not fix a flawed system with ANYONE, Hence the reason we burn through tenders and personnel to appease the wilfully ignorant powers that be whom were fixated on first Hockey USA run and gun and then Randy's Swarm.

How many players must one go through using the excuse if they would just execute the system before you come to the conclusion, this system by and large is not fit to practice in actual games.

What peers? The players who won't be accountable? Those peers?

 

[HonestHockey*]

Want to see a pattern.

Randy inherits a team that's quite stacked. Wins the cup. Has personal conflicts with certain players and the team declines every year thereafter until they are complete trash. He is fired and the team becomes a contender.

Randy inherits the leafs and in a shortened season makes the playoffs. The team fails and collapses, come the next year the same kind of decline that was on display in Ana. Is on display here including personnel problems.

Coincidence? I think not

A contender? Anaheim?

 

[thewave]

What peers? The players who won't be accountable? Those peers?

I will refrain from acknowledging your trolls. There is no point in discussions here until moves are made by the club and sincere posters return to the fold.

-regards

 

[HonestHockey*]

I just want to say that Carlyle doesn't think Jake is a failure. Carlyle loves Jake and even though his 200ft game isn't there he still gets played a ton. Carlyle is trying to TEACH Gardiner that part of the game. He is Carlyle's project. I don't know why others cannot see this.

Until the trade deadline Gardiner played a lesser role. IMO Carlyle asked Nonis for some help on the d and Nonis failed so Carlyle played it the Nonis way and let players play without a system. That worked out well didn't it.

Carlyle suggesting that he should have kept Gardiners lease short was exactly the right thing to do.

 

[HonestHockey*]

I will refrain from acknowledging your trolls. There is no point in discussions here until moves are made by the club and sincere posters return to the fold.

-regards

They were legit questions. You said peers? What peers?

 

[mulefarm]

Until the trade deadline Gardiner played a lesser role. IMO Carlyle asked Nonis for some help on the d and Nonis failed so Carlyle played it the Nonis way and let players play without a system. That worked out well didn't it.

Carlyle suggesting that he should have kept Gardiners lease short was exactly the right thing to do.

You don't really believe this do you? I never read where Carlyle said we don't have a system, or for that matter, anyone making that statement.

 

[HonestHockey*]

You don't really believe this do you? I never read where Carlyle said we don't have a system, or for that matter, anyone making that statement.

Are you saying that the style of play didn't change to end the season? Hell Gardiner was most often up the ice before we even had the puck. When have you ever seen a defensemen first man in on a dump? What are the forwards to do with that?

Things totally changed after the trade deadline. And even Gardiner admitted it in his exit interview. The one where he made an idiotic comparison of himself.

 

[FifthLine]

Obviously our defense isn't great, but I think they shoulder to much of the blame for being 'bad defensively'. Do they make mistakes? Of course. But how many times, do you see them send it up the boards only to have the breakout disrupted by our forwards breaking out? Way to often.

I think it has more to do with the forward support and poor system. Hopefully these change next year.