News Article: Jake Gardiner and the Leafs D

[Mess]

The other good news is that with robidas and polak both righties, franson's PK duties pretty much dissappear, especially if jake or rielly can establish themslves there.

Gardiner played .37 sec of SH TOI/g and Rielly played .8 secs of SH TOI/g

Franson played less SH TOI/g then even Gleason and Ranger last year.

Gunnarrson played the most SH TOI/g 2:56.

So the new guys are going to need to replace Gunnar on PK#1 unit far more than Franson spare part on PK#2, and more so replacing Gleason/Ranger.

 

[zeke]

Guess there's been a lack of remarkabke things said around here lately, then.

Franson will go on and be a #4/5 dman in the nhl for a long time, whether its here or elsewhere.

But you've hit on something important in terms of team systems being more important to team defense than personnel, at least.

 

[Teeder9]

Guess there's been a lack of remarkabke things said around here lately, then.

Franson will go on and be a #4/5 dman in the nhl for a long time, whether its here or elsewhere.

But you've hit on something important in terms of team systems being more important to team defense than personnel, at least.

I think it goes without saying that you need a team willing to win games, not hoping they can.

 

[cack]

Safe to say Det, Mon and Dal have good defensive teams because of the actual team, not the defense. All three teams have forwards who know there are 3 zones in every rink. Using their PP dman need as a reasoning to pump Franson's defensive prowess tires is one of the more remarkable things I've read on here lately

Montreal and Detroit do not have good defensemen?

 

[Teeder9]

Montreal and Detroit do not have good defensemen?

Nowhere in my post did I say they didn't have good dmen. I said they rely on their whole team and not just their dmen. I don't plan on having an interpreter present for you in the future.

 

[EastVan]

Countless key playoff goals came from big blasts taken from the point.

That alone is reason enough to keep Franson around in my mind.

No doubt our overall team defense needs to improve too though. I totally agree.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Thing is with rielly no longer a raw rook, and polak hopefully a steadier presence than gleason/liles, the rielly-polak pair should be able to play many more minutes than our third pair did last year, which would reduce franson's role in a big way already. In fact, a rielly-polak pair could end up playing more than the gardiner-franson pair period, and against tougher competition.

The other good news is that with robidas and polak both righties, franson's PK duties pretty much dissappear, especially if jake or rielly can establish themslves there.

With the pairings i listed there, we could see something like this minutes distribution (48es min, 6pp, 6pk avg):

Phaneuf 18:00es, 3:00pp, 4:00pk, 25:00tot
Robidas 18:00es, 0:00pp, 4:00pk, 22:00tot

Gardiner 15:00es, 3:00pp, 1:00pk, 19:00tot
Franson 15:00es, 3:00pp, 0:00pk, 18:00tot

Rielly: 15:00es, 3:00pp, 1:00pk, 19:00tot
Polak: 15:00es, 0:00pp, 2:00pk, 17:00tot

Hmm, that could be interesting. The only concern that I'd have is that with that scenario, we might not be giving Jake enough 5 on 5 time. I do agree we need to get Franson off the PK though. Phaneuf, Robidas, Polak, and hopefully one of the kids. My money is on Rielly

 

[cack]

Nowhere in my post did I say they didn't have good dmen. I said they rely on their whole team and not just their dmen. I don't plan on having an interpreter present for you in the future.

Teams rely on the entire team to play responsible hockey, fascinating. Toronto got rid of the complimentary pieces that have been bogging the team down so you do have a point.

 

[zeke]

Gardiner played .37 sec of SH TOI/g and Rielly played .8 secs of SH TOI/g

Franson played less SH TOI/g then even Gleason and Ranger last year.

Gunnarrson played the most SH TOI/g 2:56.

So the new guys are going to need to replace Gunnar on PK#1 unit far more than Franson spare part on PK#2, and more so replacing Gleason/Ranger.

Last year the first unit:

Gunnar 80gms, 235:05 ------------ Phaneuf 80gms, 226:22

Robidas steps into that first pk unit, with phaneuf moving over to his stickside (which imo is much more important on the pk than at even strength). Should be similarly effective as last year.

The second unit:

Ranger 53gms, 101:03 / Gleason 39gms, 81:34 -------- Franson 79gms, 129:39

This unit was pathetic, of course. Polak hopefully is a big upgrade here, and can stabilize the 2nd unit finally. Hopefully Franson's rightiness helps our idiot coach overcome his obsession with big slugs on the pk, and gives the left side of the 2nd unit to puck movers gardiner and rielly instead. If he does, we can count on a pretty huge upgrade to the second pairing.


Leftovers:

Gardiner 80gms, 49:22
Fraser 19gms, 47:34
Rielly 73gms, 10:18
Liles 6gms, 0:11

Fraser actually played a ton of pk minutes in the first quarter of the year, with disastrous results, because our coach is an idiot.



If robidas and polak come as advertised, then franson's defensive responsibilities, both at ES and the PK will be reduced pretty hugely.

 

[Diatomic]

Gardiner played .37 sec of SH TOI/g and Rielly played .8 secs of SH TOI/g

Franson played less SH TOI/g then even Gleason and Ranger last year.

Gunnarrson played the most SH TOI/g 2:56.

So the new guys are going to need to replace Gunnar on PK#1 unit far more than Franson spare part on PK#2, and more so replacing Gleason/Ranger.

Phaneuf, polak, robidas and granberg should handle the majority of the PK duties while gards and Rielly get warmed up for the PP, but it would be nice to see Gards get a little spike in SH time and see how he can handle it.

 

[Mess]

Phaneuf, polak, robidas and granberg should handle the majority of the PK duties while gards and Rielly get warmed up for the PP, but it would be nice to see Gards get a little spike in SH time and see how he can handle it.

Gardiner already gets the most ES TOI/G among all Leaf Dmen 18:10 and his PP time this year is certain to rise, particularly if Franson is dealt and the #1PP unit opens up.

SH TOI/g is not somewhere I would expect to see an increase with Gardiner as he isn't a defensive player nor needed to put in the tough minutes on the PK blocking shots and clearing the crease which is best left for others.

 

[gabeliscious]

Guess there's been a lack of remarkabke things said around here lately, then.

Franson will go on and be a #4/5 dman in the nhl for a long time, whether its here or elsewhere.

But you've hit on something important in terms of team systems being more important to team defense than personnel, at least.

how many 4/5 defenseman make $4+ million. at $2 million i agree 100% with you but franson wants to get paid. how many guys sign contracts that are too big for them and end up getting bought out and end up out of the league.

 

[Mess]

Last year the first unit:

Gunnar 80gms, 235:05 ------------ Phaneuf 80gms, 226:22

Robidas steps into that first pk unit, with phaneuf moving over to his stickside (which imo is much more important on the pk than at even strength). Should be similarly effective as last year.

The second unit:

Ranger 53gms, 101:03 / Gleason 39gms, 81:34 -------- Franson 79gms, 129:39

This unit was pathetic, of course. Polak hopefully is a big upgrade here, and can stabilize the 2nd unit finally. Hopefully Franson's rightiness helps our idiot coach overcome his obsession with big slugs on the pk, and gives the left side of the 2nd unit to puck movers gardiner and rielly instead. If he does, we can count on a pretty huge upgrade to the second pairing.


Leftovers:

Gardiner 80gms, 49:22
Fraser 19gms, 47:34
Rielly 73gms, 10:18
Liles 6gms, 0:11

Fraser actually played a ton of pk minutes in the first quarter of the year, with disastrous results, because our coach is an idiot.



If robidas and polak come as advertised, then franson's defensive responsibilities, both at ES and the PK will be reduced pretty hugely.

Robidas is 37 and coming off 2 broken leg injuries last year. Replacing Gunnarsson who was #24 overall in SH TOI/g among all Dmen is going to be big shoes to fill. Gunnarsson is 10 years younger than Robidas.

Robidas was the 12th oldest Dman in the NHL last year, and higher now with Salo, Gill, Bouillon, Jovonovski and others UFAs).. As one of the older players in the league Robidas recovery time would expected to be longer than a youngster as well.

Blocking shots killing penalties on surgically repaired legs is going to be another thing as it would make him at far more risk for re-injury or new injuries, playing those tough minutes at that age now as well as taking a regular top 4 ES spot.

I expect to see Granberg killing more penalties this season while a Leaf than Rielly or Gardiner.

 

[Morbo]

Difference is those other teams aren't going to give franson 21 minutes of ice.

He is a PP specialist, nothing more.

 

[diceman934]

Last year the first unit:

Gunnar 80gms, 235:05 ------------ Phaneuf 80gms, 226:22

Robidas steps into that first pk unit, with phaneuf moving over to his stickside (which imo is much more important on the pk than at even strength). Should be similarly effective as last year.

The second unit:

Ranger 53gms, 101:03 / Gleason 39gms, 81:34 -------- Franson 79gms, 129:39

This unit was pathetic, of course. Polak hopefully is a big upgrade here, and can stabilize the 2nd unit finally. Hopefully Franson's rightiness helps our idiot coach overcome his obsession with big slugs on the pk, and gives the left side of the 2nd unit to puck movers gardiner and rielly instead. If he does, we can count on a pretty huge upgrade to the second pairing.


Leftovers:

Gardiner 80gms, 49:22
Fraser 19gms, 47:34
Rielly 73gms, 10:18
Liles 6gms, 0:11

Fraser actually played a ton of pk minutes in the first quarter of the year, with disastrous results, because our coach is an idiot.



If robidas and polak come as advertised, then franson's defensive responsibilities, both at ES and the PK will be reduced pretty hugely.

Lets hope that our D pairs are more successful as Dion and Gunnar were 4th and 7th for PP goals against last year. We need this to improve if our PK is going to improve. I can see us using Gardiner a lot more on the PK on the second pair with Robidas, with Polak seeing first PK duty.

 

[hobarth]

Difference is those other teams aren't going to give franson 21 minutes of ice.

He is a PP specialist, nothing more.

I don't know if that's true and the reason is that Franson and Fraser were a very effective 3rd pairing, 2 years ago. I think Franson will again be a superior 3rd pairing d-man who will again get major PP time because that's where he is most useful, RC continuously used him as a 2nd pairing d-man last year but Franson doesn't have the speed to match up with 2nd line opponents.

Neither Franson or Fraser had much speed so I think Franson was miscast last year but even then I never felt that Franson didn't give it his all. Franson has value and so long as his contract reflects it I think he's a keeper.

 

[TheLeafsBro]

I actually don't mind Franson as a 3rd pairing D-man. It's not his fault Randy played him in our top 4 at times. We shouldn't be holding that against him. He would be a lot less exposed on a 3rd pairing especially with a guy like Granberg stepping in to help him defensively.

Granberg-Franson 3rd pairing would be good.

For me it all comes down to arbitration. Is there a number that works for us? Who knows with arbitration they might over-value the points he's put up over the last two seasons. At the end of the day if the price is too high we can always walk.

 

[Mess]

I actually don't mind Franson as a 3rd pairing D-man. It's not his fault Randy played him in our top 4 at times. We shouldn't be holding that against him. He would be a lot less exposed on a 3rd pairing especially with a guy like Granberg stepping in to help him defensively.

Granberg-Franson 3rd pairing would be good.

If that is your 3rd pairing then what are the other 2 because you have 5 guys and only 4 spots to slot them in.

 

[PuckMagi]

He is a PP specialist, nothing more.

Franson's a short-handed goal specialist on the PP.

 

[EastVan]

Franson's a short-handed goal specialist on the PP.

 

[TheLeafsBro]

If that is your 3rd pairing then what are the other 2 because you have 5 guys and only 4 spots to slot them in.

Actually you're right. I didn't think that through.

Gardiner - Phaneuf
Rielly - Robidas
Polak - Franson
Granberg

So worst case scenario, Franson plays like **** and loses his job to Granberg. Or someone gets injured and we have Franson to step in.

It still all comes down to price if hes gonna be 6-7 dman. I'm just saying he would be much better in that role and fans wouldn't hate him so much. Like I said it's not his fault he got put in top 4 situations.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Robidas is 37 and coming off 2 broken leg injuries last year. Replacing Gunnarsson who was #24 overall in SH TOI/g among all Dmen is going to be big shoes to fill. Gunnarsson is 10 years younger than Robidas.

Robidas was the 12th oldest Dman in the NHL last year, and higher now with Salo, Gill, Bouillon, Jovonovski and others UFAs).. As one of the older players in the league Robidas recovery time would expected to be longer than a youngster as well.

Blocking shots killing penalties on surgically repaired legs is going to be another thing as it would make him at far more risk for re-injury or new injuries, playing those tough minutes at that age now as well as taking a regular top 4 ES spot.

I expect to see Granberg killing more penalties this season while a Leaf than Rielly or Gardiner.

Gunnarsson played those minutes on the 3rd worst penalty kill in the league. The shoes aren't so big me thinks. Same goes for people who are worried about our PK because McClement is gone.

 

[hobarth]

I actually don't mind Franson as a 3rd pairing D-man. It's not his fault Randy played him in our top 4 at times. We shouldn't be holding that against him. He would be a lot less exposed on a 3rd pairing especially with a guy like Granberg stepping in to help him defensively.

Granberg-Franson 3rd pairing would be good.

For me it all comes down to arbitration. Is there a number that works for us? Who knows with arbitration they might over-value the points he's put up over the last two seasons. At the end of the day if the price is too high we can always walk.

I only really paid attention to Granberg during his only appearance as a Leaf but I've never had a soft spot for 1 dimentional, stone handed, slow but big d-men which is what I see Granberg as much the same as Holzer was 2 years ago. I like d-men who can move the puck, Franson isn't a puck mover so pairing him with someone like himself isn't my idea of the ideal pairing. Franson is physical, slow and big, I think a better partner for him might be Percy(hopefully) or Robidas.

TO's biggest problem throughout last year was possession and I think d-men pairings should be balanced and more aggressively proactive than what we saw. The d-men should be defending in the neutral zone as vigorously if not more so than in the defensive zone, that requires mobility. It's useless to have possible Komi clones who don't/can't aid a possession game because they're useless with the puck and don't have mobility.

 

[calcal798]

Thing is with rielly no longer a raw rook, and polak hopefully a steadier presence than gleason/liles, the rielly-polak pair should be able to play many more minutes than our third pair did last year, which would reduce franson's role in a big way already. In fact, a rielly-polak pair could end up playing more than the gardiner-franson pair period, and against tougher competition.

The other good news is that with robidas and polak both righties, franson's PK duties pretty much dissappear, especially if jake or rielly can establish themslves there.

With the pairings i listed there, we could see something like this minutes distribution (48es min, 6pp, 6pk avg):

Phaneuf 18:00es, 3:00pp, 4:00pk, 25:00tot
Robidas 18:00es, 0:00pp, 4:00pk, 22:00tot

Gardiner 15:00es, 3:00pp, 1:00pk, 19:00tot
Franson 15:00es, 3:00pp, 0:00pk, 18:00tot

Rielly: 15:00es, 3:00pp, 1:00pk, 19:00tot
Polak: 15:00es, 0:00pp, 2:00pk, 17:00tot

I'd rather see something like this if we're going to be stuck with Franson again (which I hope we aren't):

Gardiner 17:00es, 3:00pp, 1:00pk, 21:00tot
Phaneuf 17:00es, 2:00pp, 3:00pk, 22:00tot

Rielly: 17:00es, 3:00pp, 1:00pk, 21:00tot
Robidas: 17:00es, 0:00pp, 3:00pk, 20:00tot

Franson 15:00es, 2:00pp, 0:00pk, 17:00tot
Polak 15:00es, 0:00pp, 4:00pk, 19:00tot

This way it spreads out the load a lot more for Dion, giving him the 2nd PP unit ice time and less ES ice time. It gives Rielly and Gardiner a chance to show more on the PP (and hopefully make it deadlier) and isolates Franson where he won't get exposed. You could also actually see the developement of an actual top four in this case.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

The only season during which Phaneuf performed admirably and played 25+ minutes was during a shortened season. Last season Gardiner saw more ES ice time than Phaneuf in an attempt to get more out of him throughout an 82 game season so I suspect we're already seeing a changing of the guard. Phaneuf will continue to get #1PP and #1PK minutes but his even strength minutes will begin being usurped by more mobile defencemen.