News Article: Jake Gardiner and the Leafs D

[Hockey Talker29]

http://theleafsnation.com/2014/7/8/gardiner-phaneuf-and-quality-of-competition?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Great article from Cam Charron that speaks to how important Gardiner and Rielly are to the Leafs' future.

Click to read more...

 

[ACC1224]

http://theleafsnation.com/2014/7/8/gardiner-phaneuf-and-quality-of-competition?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Great article from Cam Charron that speaks to how important Gardiner and Rielly are to the Leafs' future.

Never heard of Cam Charron. What media outlet is he associated with?

 

[MastuhNinks]

I like Jake Gardiner a lot, and I'm expecting a big year from him.

That said, 'Jake Gardiner is better than Dion Phaneuf because of this spreadsheet' isn't a very strong argument. I'd be interested to see those results translates into goal totals. Y'know, goals, the thing that actually determines the final score and thus the winner of a hockey game.

Corsi tells us that Phaneuf had a bad year, actual goal totals (again, the thing that is the determining factor in winning hockey games) tell us he had a very effective year.

 

[7even]

In my last post I wrote out the Corsi rates (table at the bottom) of the six defensive pairing combinations that were together for more than 200 minutes in 2013-14. What stood out was Jake Gardiner and Morgan Rielly, posting an elite-level 54.6% Corsi rate on a team where so many players fail to crack 45%.

That stands out. That's the highlighted section. The next two highest Corsi rates for a defensive pairing also happen to have Jake Gardiner on them. That also stands out. It's no secret that the Maple Leafs are a team that struggles with puck possession, but they also happen to have a player who struggles a visibly less.

That's pretty impressive. Even if you're not a Corsi fan, that's like having a player with a +/- of +10 on a team where nobody else did better than a -5. The deviation is what's important.

 

[WTFMAN99]

That's pretty impressive. Even if you're not a Corsi fan, that's like having a player with a +/- of +10 on a team where nobody else did better than a -5. The deviation is what's important.

Carl Gunnarsson is a bit of an anomoly to me, our best +/- on a team with not great +/- however his corsi was kind of bad i believe.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

This just lends to the argument that Jake is a very talented young defenseman, who is a key piece of this team's future.

He's already a very strong possession player, which we're seeing is more and more important for sustained success in the NHL.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Never heard of Cam Charron. What media outlet is he associated with?

He's a blogger with a decided slant on analytics for players he either likes or dislikes for Pension puppets and Maple Leafs hot stove forum or some forgettable name run by Dangle.

Terrible hockey blogger that Bozak pretty drove into seclusion last year.

Read at your own peril is my advice.

 

[ACC1224]

He's a blogger with a decided slant on analytics for players he either likes or dislikes for Pension puppets and Maple Leafs hot stove forum or some forgettable name run by Dangle.

Terrible hockey blogger that Bozak pretty drove into seclusion last year.

Read at your own peril is my advice.

I don't read bloggers, no different than a post here.

So this isn't a "News Article" then?

 

[maketrades]

Great article. Makes a good point about no separation between Gardiner and Phaneuf and that it's really all because Gardiner loses the puck when he's making flashy plays, which are more noticeable.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Sorry I can't digest this blog post, I'm too busy reading real incisive news articles by professional, award-winning journalists like Damien Cox and Steve Simmons.

 

[Kyle93]

Great article. Makes a good point about no separation between Gardiner and Phaneuf and that it's really all because Gardiner loses the puck when he's making flashy plays, which are more noticeable.

 

[maketrades]

Sorry I can't digest this blog post, I'm too busy reading real incisive news articles by professional, award-winning journalists like Damien Cox and Steve Simmons.

I hope you're being sarcastic...

 

[7even]

Sorry I can't digest this blog post, I'm too busy reading real incisive news articles by professional, award-winning journalists like Damien Cox and Steve Simmons.

Subtle

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

wat

The point would be that Gardiner does just as well playing against the star forwards Phaneuf went up against, albeit in less ice time. The argument that Gardiner can't handle tough competition or only seems to do well because he gets easy minutes is quite a lot weaker with this evidence.

The caveats are that while this analysis does control for quality of competition, since the stats are against the same opponent (though maybe not exactly the same line every time), it doesn't control for zone starts and quality of teammates. Since Gardiner was stuck with Franson for a lot of the year, while Phaneuf had a stable partner in Gunnarsson, the latter point might be in Gardiner's favour. It also depends which forwards they played with during this time. I can't imagine there's a significant difference there, though, because Randy does love his line matching.

 

[Kubus]

I'm just happy we have this kid. The kid is silk on skates, and I don't think he has reached his full potential. He might not be a "#1" but the kid will make a very solid top 4 guy.

The problem is the fans and the media not Gardiner. People are not happy with a top 4 guy, we are always looking for a savior, hoping one player can change the fate of a team.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

I'm just happy we have this kid. The kid is silk on skates, and I don't think he has reached his full potential. He might not be a "#1" but the kid will make a very solid top 4 guy.

The problem is the fans and the media not Gardiner. People are not happy with a top 4 guy, we are always looking for a savior, hoping one player can change the fate of a team.

No kidding. Kadri gets dumped on for not being the 1c we want (yet). I imagine if Rielly struggles next season, trolls will be out in full force.

 

[Bullseye]

I'm just happy we have this kid. The kid is silk on skates, and I don't think he has reached his full potential. He might not be a "#1" but the kid will make a very solid top 4 guy.

The problem is the fans and the media not Gardiner. People are not happy with a top 4 guy, we are always looking for a savior, hoping one player can change the fate of a team.

I don't see how Carlyle is the author of non-puck-possession hockey. It's against what he believes. Get puck from other team, keep puck (meaning make the right pass, do not get bodied off it, skate it out of trouble). Toronto was bad under Wilson as well. Toronto was terrible before Phaneuf arrived here. People have short memories.

I think Carlyle is selfish - I think he wants his team to get possession and then not lose it!

I agree with one thing in this article - hockey is a game of scoring and prevention of scoring but I disagree with the two being equal. Prevention of scoring is far more important because it leads to more scoring chances than the other team measured by time of possession and shots on goal. The Leafs proved that being outshot all the time only works for awhile. The goalie should not be the best goal preventer on the team - he should be excellent at it but the team itself should stop the puck more often than the goalie by superior puck possession. Make the other teams goalie be the best goal preventer not yours. Eventually you overwhelm him though.

 

[JackJ]

Make or break season for Gardiner as a Leaf. IMO he'll start the season paired with Phaneuf.

 

[LeafsNation149]

Always been a fan of Jakes always will be glad Nonis didnt **** up and trade him

 

[Peasy]

I ****in hate advanced stats, seriously. This is all the league is coming too now.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

I ****in hate advanced stats, seriously. This is all the league is coming too now.

Yeah, it's like they don't even play 82 regular season games and four playoff rounds with a total of 15 best-of-7 series anymore.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I don't read bloggers, no different than a post here.

So this isn't a "News Article" then?

I don't either, if you want good hockey opinions based on real knowledgable hockey people, you wouldn't go read it from a Highschool newspaper either.

 

[cack]

Jake Gardiner and Morgan Rielly are important to the Leafs future. In other news water is wet.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Jake Gardiner and Morgan Rielly are important to the Leafs future. In other news water is wet.

One of the above is true.

I never understood the need to lump in a lower ceiling player with a higher ceiling player. Rielly blows Gardiner away as a defenceman if they both reach their potential.

 

[cack]

One of the above is true.

I never understood the need to lump in a lower ceiling player with a higher ceiling player. Rielly blows Gardiner away as a defenceman if they both reach their potential.

Not exactly. Morgan Rielly becoming a better player does not mean Jake Gardiner would not be important.