Waived: Jake Dotchin on Unconditional Waivers

JuniorNelson

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In the picture he looks heavy, like twenty pounds or so.

Is it two fifties and a twenty five? That's two hundred and seventy pounds with the bar. A lot of weight! Years ago a defenseman named Sopel worked out to build upper body mass all Summer. When he came to camp he couldn't turn. His upper body wasn't flexible enough with the added muscle and tendon tension.
 
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Boom Boom Apathy

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You can't send a guy to the minors you've claimed off waivers right away. He would just be sent back to Tampa.

There's a little more to it than that.

You can send a guy to the minors that you claim, but you must waive him again first. At that point, any other team can put a claim on him with priority going to those lower in the standings (Tampa doesn't get first dibs just because he came from them). If he clears that waivers, you can send him to the minors. If he doesn't clear, he goes to the other team who claimed him.

If TB claims him (which I would doubt) on the 2nd waivers and they are the ONLY team that put in a claim, then they can send him down without waiving him again.
 
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Nick Hansen

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Picture of Dotchin at the first day of Training Camp for the medical/physical testing. From the Tampa Bay Times. So he did show up for the testing day then was put on unconditional waivers the next day.

AR-309149662.jpg

Why is he trying to lift it using only two fingers of each hand?
 

Canuck Luck

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You can't send a guy to the minors you've claimed off waivers right away. He would just be sent back to Tampa.

Tampa is the only 1 nhl team guaranteed not to claim him. So no he wouldn’t be sent back to Tampa. Why would they claim a guy they are trying to terminate?

What would happen is either one of the other 29 teams claim him or he goes unclaimed which is more likely to happen since no team claimed him at just over 800k.

The last option a team has is sign him and keep him on the nhl roster long enough without playing they can send him on a conditioning stint to the ahl without waivers ala Frankie corrado and the maple leafs. That or have him miss time due to “injury” so they can send him down on a conditioning stint without waivers
 

AppsSyl

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Tampa is the only 1 nhl team guaranteed not to claim him. So no he wouldn’t be sent back to Tampa. Why would they claim a guy they are trying to terminate?

What would happen is either one of the other 29 teams claim him or he goes unclaimed which is more likely to happen since no team claimed him at just over 800k.

The last option a team has is sign him and keep him on the nhl roster long enough without playing they can send him on a conditioning stint to the ahl without waivers ala Frankie corrado and the maple leafs. That or have him miss time due to “injury” so they can send him down on a conditioning stint without waivers
I may be wrong but I thank that if a guy goes through waivers and is picked up by another team and then waived, he goes to the minor league team of the original team automatically unless someone behind the team that claimed him picks him up.
 

TampaJay

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Dotchin is a repeat offender.

I can't believe this thread, about a fringe NHLer, has 9 pages. I guess that's what happens when Victor Hedman makes you look good for 20 games.
This situation has more significance than the talent, or lack thereof, of the player involved. It has the potential to be precedent setting. There are lots of contracts that GMs would like to unload, and the NHLPA is not going to want to establish a precedent that reporting to camp out of shape justifies a material breach of contract. What’s interesting is that this is the first move of a brand-new GM whose expertise is in legal matters (he’s a lawyer) who apparently wants to take on the NHLPA in a precedent setting case that he would likely lose – if it really is just about being too fat. There just has to be more to the story, or Julien BriseBois is coming out of the gate opening pandora’s box. Not a low-key start. Why not just send him to the AHL (he cleared) and tell him to get in shape? The money savings by unloading the contract is insignificant. Something doesn’t add up.
 

uncleben

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I may be wrong but I thank that if a guy goes through waivers and is picked up by another team and then waived, he goes to the minor league team of the original team automatically unless someone behind the team that claimed him picks him up.
Not quite

If player is claimed (by Team B) and then but back onto waivers, a normal waiver process begins.
The player goes to the claiming team with highest priority. That may be the original team (Team A), or it may be a previously involved third team (Team C).

If a Team C successfully claims him, then they are in the same boat as Team B was - play him in the NHL or put him through the normal waiver process.

If the original Team A successfully claims him there are two possible outcomes:
1) Team A was the successful claiming team, but there were other teams also putting in a claim. In this case Team A is subject to the same conditions as Team C would have been and as Team B was previously - play him in the NHL or put him through the normal waiver process
2) Team A is the only claiming team. In this case Team A can lend the player to an affiliate league without waivers, however it is not automatic and they can choose to keep him in the NHL if they choose.



The idea behind waivers is to keep a player in the NHL.

If Team A thinks a player is "not NHL worthy" they can send him down through waivers and offer up that player to anyone else who thinks he is NHL worthy.
If he clears, that in effect, is the whole League saying he is not NHL worthy.

If he is claimed, that's someone saying "Hey, wait up, we think he is an NHL player". He passes muster, remains an NHL player, and any worthiness-check needs to be made again if his new team wants to send him down.

If the new team realizes, okay maybe he isn't an NHL player and want to waive him, three possible checks are made.
1) He clears waivers - no one thinks he is an NHL player. He goes down.
2) A third team puts in a claim. Whether successful or unsuccessful, it doesn't matter. All that matters is there is someone in the League saying, "we still think this guy has potential to play on our NHL roster". He remains an NHL players.
3) No one puts in a claim other than the original team - original team can effectively say, "see we told you so, and since we already declared him as not NHL worthy, and you, his new team, also don't think he's NHL worthy, and no one else in the League is speaking up, then it's as if he passed waivers, and if we want to send him down now, we're just gonna do so without asking permission again".



Or for a third analogy, and one that is my favourite...

You're at a party and ask, "hey, does anyone mind if I finish this bowl of chips?"
If there is no protest, you finish them.
If somebody wants some, you pass the bowl along.
But then imagine that new person has their fill, and decides they are done, and they ask "hey, does anyone want the rest of these chips?"
If someone else this time wants some, you share with them or let them finish it.
Bu if no one else says anything and every one has had their fair chance to eat some chips, and they don't want to, you have fair game to just finish the bowl yourself.
 

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Has he cleared waivers yet ?

Yes. That was pretty much to be expected though. If you want him, best let Tampa terminate the current contract so that you can offer him a new contract on your team's terms.

The fact that he cleared doesn't mean there isn't interest, necessarily.
 

VoluntaryDom

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Yes. That was pretty much to be expected though. If you want him, best let Tampa terminate the current contract so that you can offer him a new contract on your team's terms.

The fact that he cleared doesn't mean there isn't interest, necessarily.
But if u don’t claim him on waivers he gets to choose which team he signs with if you claimed him you get him if u have higher priority
 

tucker3434

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If it was over conditioning, it certainly sends a message.

It seems like a long summer break, but these days guys are taking a couple weeks off immediately after the season and then getting right back after it in the gym. If you’re waiting til August to get back into shape, you’re going to be way behind. It isn’t like it used to be.
 

The Macho King

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Honestly it seems like a bizarre fight for TBL to start. Dotchin is on a 1 year contract and the money is completely able to be buried in the AHL, so even if he gets through waivers it doesn't have *too* much of an effect. So it frees up a contract spot, but that doesn't seem like it's worth the headache to me - especially since the NHLPA is probably going to fight over this.
 
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Charlie Conway

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Honestly it seems like a bizarre fight for TBL to start. Dotchin is on a 1 year contract and the money is completely able to be buried in the AHL, so even if he gets through waivers it doesn't have *too* much of an effect. So it frees up a contract spot, but that doesn't seem like it's worth the headache to me - especially since the NHLPA is probably going to fight over this.

There must be more to it. Maybe they're sending a larger message to the club as a whole.
 

Davegarri

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Why is he trying to lift it using only two fingers of each hand?

That's just the form for front squats. I personally hate it so I just do back squats lol He's not really lifting it with two fingers, it's resting on you as you squat down. It's apparently supposed to be easier on your body, but whatever.

He does look thicc in that picture though
 

DFC

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Also - paying a guy 1 million dollars who isn't doing his job is a crappy message to send as well. Brisebois got some balls though.

Probably goes back to last year, and I'm sure there are factors we don't know about. That suspension he received last preseason was suspiciously long. And we saw his play never did get up to the simple "Do No Harm" level that he had attained the previous year. Cooper always talks about how guys who miss the preseason take a long time to get up to speed, and you have to wonder if that was the case. Could also be the case that they weren't happy with his conditioning for a long time, and gave him the summer to get it in check.

Agreed on Brisebois' balls. :p There's a part of me that wants to nod in approval just because he seems to be following Yzerman's lead right out of the gate, with a cold-blooded move, where it would have been a lot easier to just go the non-confrontational route and bury him in the AHL before cutting ties.
 

HoseEmDown

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Honestly it seems like a bizarre fight for TBL to start. Dotchin is on a 1 year contract and the money is completely able to be buried in the AHL, so even if he gets through waivers it doesn't have *too* much of an effect. So it frees up a contract spot, but that doesn't seem like it's worth the headache to me - especially since the NHLPA is probably going to fight over this.

They don't want him in the AHL near all their top prospects. This is two years in a row for him, not a good example for your young kids to have around. They also have Foote and Cernak who are better who need the minutes. All he'd do is block Thomas and Spencer from playing. They should've just tried to trade him but that's too late now.
 

DFC

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In the picture he looks heavy, like twenty pounds or so.

Is it two fifties and a twenty five? That's two hundred and seventy pounds with the bar. A lot of weight! Years ago a defenseman named Sopel worked out to build upper body mass all Summer. When he came to camp he couldn't turn. His upper body wasn't flexible enough with the added muscle and tendon tension.

It's not a whole lot of weight considering his size, and that he's a pro athlete. He can probably bench press that. I don't think that picture proves a whole lot one way or the other. If TB is saying the issue was conditioning, I'll buy it, especially when this isn't the first problem they've had with the player, and also when you consider how little BS the Bolts tolerate since the Drouin debacle.

I'm not sure if on-ice testing had happened by the time they waived him or if they made their decision in the gym. Either way, it must have been pretty bad.
 
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Starat327

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Honestly it seems like a bizarre fight for TBL to start. Dotchin is on a 1 year contract and the money is completely able to be buried in the AHL, so even if he gets through waivers it doesn't have *too* much of an effect. So it frees up a contract spot, but that doesn't seem like it's worth the headache to me - especially since the NHLPA is probably going to fight over this.

I think thats why theres a lot more to it than we're getting. I agree with everything above, but what if he came in and tested positive for an illegal substance, or something like that? I think that would supercede all of the above, in the "we dont want this guy around our 'clean' players" mantra. If it really was just about conditioning, despite his previosu offense - this is one hell of a way to start off your tenure as a GM.
 

DFC

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I think thats why theres a lot more to it than we're getting. I agree with everything above, but what if he came in and tested positive for an illegal substance, or something like that? I think that would supercede all of the above, in the "we dont want this guy around our 'clean' players" mantra. If it really was just about conditioning, despite his previosu offense - this is one hell of a way to start off your tenure as a GM.

Brisebois is an Yzerman disciple though. And that's a very Yzerman move.
 

Starat327

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Brisebois is an Yzerman disciple though. And that's a very Yzerman move.

I'm not saying its the wrong move by any stretch - especially given that hes done it before, apparently. Just think the optics make it look like an odd hill to set your first flag on, that's all.
 

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