Jagr vs Crosby, who "was" more talented?

[Sentinel]

Crosby was NEVER the best skater in the league. Not the fastest, not the smoothest, not anything.

Jagr, without hesitation. Crosby is a little more driven and has a slightly better hockey sense. In everything else it's Jagr quite handily.

 

[billybudd]

Is strength considered a talent? If it is, I'd lean Jagr, if it's not I'd lean Sid.

Jagr got a lot of points on account of being stronger than the guy covering him. Crosby gets some, but not nearly as many.

 

[Sonic Disturbance]

Crosby was NEVER the best skater in the league. Not the fastest, not the smoothest, not anything.

Jagr, without hesitation. Crosby is a little more driven and has a slightly better hockey sense. In everything else it's Jagr quite handily.

Who were better skaters 2005-2007? He was closest to being the fastest (ridiculous acceleration) around that time IMO and had great edges. Could turn on a dime, tremendous balance, change directions very quickly. Could skate north-south and east-west equally well. His skating has since declined but is still very good.

 

[billybudd]

Who were better skaters 2005-2007? He was closest to being the fastest (ridiculous acceleration) around that time IMO and had great edges. Could turn on a dime, tremendous balance, change directions very quickly. Could skate north-south and east-west equally well. His skating has since declined but is still very good.

Think Crosby won a player poll for "best skater" at least once. I know he finished second a bunch of times.

 

[Sonic Disturbance]

Think Crosby won a player poll for "best skater" at least once. I know he finished second a bunch of times.

Yeah, he was voted #2 in 2012 behind Marian Gaborik in 2012, and this was post-ankle sprain.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/01/22/qmi-agency-nhl-player-poll

He finished #2 (again behind Gaborik) in 2011:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=870783

 

[Plural]

Better skater? Crosby
Better Passer? even
Better stickhandler? Jagr
Better Backhand? Crosby
Better wrister? Jagr
Better puck possession? Tie
Hockey sense? Crosby

I call huge BS on that one. Jagr might just be the best possession player in the game, ever. Crosby does not come close to that.

Purely talent? Jagr.

 

[MadArcand]

Jagr, by a landslide.

 

[daver]

Jagr wouldn't be losing Art Ross' like Crosby has.

What does this have to do with the OP and I'm assuming this is the "Art Ross winning" Jagr not the "Art Ross losing, out the Top 3 in PPG" Jagr you are referring to?

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Crosby IMO is arguably the best skater in the league. He edge work shiftiness is second to none. Just watch the edge work he did against spezza. Also has great balance and explosiveness. When I watched crosby play live his skating immediately stood out

 

[Bengan]

No. Jagr and his big butt win by quite a margin.

I was thinking the same thing. Those wide hips together with his skating+stickhandling+reach makes him one of the best puck possession players ever. It´s really sick to see that this 43 y o man can still control the puck along the boards.

One area where Crosby is better than Jagr though is behind the net, more exactly the formers playmaking abilities behind the net. But then again, is Jagr even supposed to occupy this area of the ice?

The question in the OP doesn´t have an obvious answer. It´s better to compare their talents in relation to different parts/aspects of the game. For instance, take passing. Could one really say that Jagr is the better passer? I´m not so sure about that. I´d rather say that they are pretty even, with Crosby having the slight edge.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I would say crosby is a better skater. Better hockey sense. Better agility. And better hand eye coordination.

 

[drganon]

Jagr.

 

[Voight]

What does this have to do with the OP and I'm assuming this is the "Art Ross winning" Jagr not the "Art Ross losing, out the Top 3 in PPG" Jagr you are referring to?

It has everything to do with the OP. He has more talent considering he won 5 of them in a 7 year span, only losing them to his team mate, a top 4 all time player in Lemieux.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Jagr.

He was ridiculously good.

Better skater? Crosby

I don't think so. Jagr is a tank on skates and actually was pretty quick in his younger days too.

Better puck possession? Tie

Yeah.. no.. Jagr, easily.

Hockey sense? Crosby

I think this is true. Jagr relies more on his physical abilities than Crosby. Although obviously Jagr is no slouch in the hockey sense dept.

 

[Big Phil]

This is a victory for Jagr. When you do an all-time list of players and their 1-on-1 ability Jagr is right there after Mario. Crosby isn't. There are lots of times I thought Crosby should just keep his foot on the pedal. He did this for glimpses such as the 2009 playoffs, the 2010-'11 season before he got hurt, etc. But the thing - among others - that separates Crosby from someone like Gretzky is that Gretzky played the same way regardless of the score. This is why there is a lot of "what if" behind Crosby.

Jagr had hands as good as anyone. I don't think the speed is that much different. Jagr could get to places in a hurry and maybe Crosby has better jets, but not by much. Jagr had the better shot. Crosby the better playmaker. Jagr was stronger, could hang onto the puck even better and at the end of the day if we saw career highlights for their careers it would be Jagr with the more jaw-dropping goals.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Too close to call. Jagr does some things better (especially staying healthy); Crosby does some things better.

I tend to agree but think Jagr is more "talented" but he is more like Mario in terms of greatness and Sid more like Wayne if you follow.

 

[Wrath]

Didn't Jagr finish 2nd to only Fedorov in one of those mid 90s all-star fastest skater competitions?

He was quite fast before that groin injury.

I'd say Crosby might have the edge on agility/edgework, but in flat out speed Jagr probably wins, and thus overall it's close.

 

[FlaPantherSwe*]

Jagr any day any week any month any year any decade.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Jagr any day any week any month any year any decade.

Ok, year 2015.

So?

 

[FlaPantherSwe*]

Ok, year 2015.

So?

Yes talent is timeless body is not

 

[daver]

It has everything to do with the OP. He has more talent considering he won 5 of them in a 7 year span, only losing them to his team mate, a top 4 all time player in Lemieux.

Crosby has/had the talent to win multiple times too, he just got injured. Seems like an irrelevant point to make.

 

[authentic]

I think a lot of people in this thread are seriously underrating Crosby's overall talent level by saying Jagr was easily more talented. Crosby is a better passer, skater, better hockey sense, better backhander, and while his stickhandling and puck possession ability are both not quite on Jagr's level, they're not so far behind either like some are stating in this thread. I would call this a tie to be honest, I always go back and forth on these two when trying to decide who's a better player overall, it's honestly too close to call, and anybody who has watched both of them enough should be able to see that.

 

[Blues88]

One v one play has been brought up and I think that's what ultimately separates Jagr from Crosby. If you itemized every facet of their games, they'll likely be neck and neck, but Jagr had more of a DIY approach in his prime. Not in a negative sense, because I don't think he gives up much, if anything, in IQ and vision to Crosby, but he deferred much less than even a peak goal scoring Crosby, and that's part of the reason he was winning scoring titles handily, regardless of who was around him.

Crosby plays a quick counter attacking style and utilizes acceleration and agility to create gaps and space. He's constantly looking for his teammates and likes to pull the defense out of position with puck movement. He's a fair bit more conservative in his approach to the game in comparison to Jagr. Jagr would take the play to the defenseman more and challenge them individually. He had/has one of the best skill sets in the game and abused multiple players even if they were hanging on him with his size and tenacity. Crosby plays more like Sakic/Forsberg in that respect (maybe Gretzky)...he seems to prefer creating odd man situations and mismatches. Jagr simply carrying the puck was a mismatch because he very rarely circled back high or pulled up in the corner to hit a trailer. He felt he could beat players and did that.

Crosby is more of a distributor, but I think he's altered his game a bit since his injuries, for better or worse. I'd like to see him get a bit more "selfish" because he doesn't give up much either with respect to his hands and stickhandling. Jagr was way more likely to beat defenders with his hands, Crosby with his feet (strafing).

Crosby, with all the respect in the world, is more comparable to Forsberg's skill level in my opinion. Less flashy, deferred to teammates, a distributor with an underutilized but good shot and quick release. They won't be turning defenders inside out like Jagr or a guy like Datsyuk, but their ability to shield the puck, stop and start, and create lanes is what produced scoring chances. Jagr was just a bit too dominant and too durable to fairly compare. He's had more success in arguable a muckier style of game. The fact that Jagr finished 27th in league scoring last season as a New Jersey Devil and at 42 years old speaks volumes...at least to me....about his talent level.

 

[livewell68]

I think a lot of people in this thread are seriously underrating Crosby's overall talent level by saying Jagr was easily more talented. Crosby is a better passer, skater, better hockey sense, better backhander, and while his stickhandling and puck possession ability are both not quite on Jagr's level, they're not so far behind either like some are stating in this thread. I would call this a tie to be honest, I always go back and forth on these two when trying to decide who's a better player overall, it's honestly too close to call, and anybody who has watched both of them enough should be able to see that.

For those calling Crosby the better playmaker, I would say they were pretty close at their peaks in this category.

Jagr might be the greatest playmaking winger in NHL history (or tied with Howe) while Crosby isn't top 5 among centers in that category. In fact I would go as far as to say Jagr is the 6th best playmaker in NHL history behind Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Oates, Thornton and just ahead of Howe and Francis.

Jagr finished 1st in assists 3 times in his career and was top 5 in 1995-96, 1999-00 (despite missing 19 games) and 2005-06 and 2006-07. If anything, Jagr's playmaking ability is being vastly underrated.

Also if people want to claim Crosby is a better skater pre-ankle injury, I say Jagr was the better skater pre-groin injuries and pre bulking up era. Circa 1992-96 he was among the 5 best skaters in the league, up there with Bondra, Federov, Selanne and Bure. Jagr's backhand is also being vastly underrated, he had one heck of a backhand and his stick handling/ puck possession is probably only equalled or bettered by Lemieux.

Jagr was also 4-5 inches taller, had a wider wing span and had about 20-25 lbs on Crosby despite being as fast. Jagr was a hybrid of a modern Kane-Getzlaf and Malkin.

Another aspect of Jagr's game that is being vastly underrated on here is his hockey sense and IQ, the fact that he can still play at a high level at age 43 is in large part due to his sense and IQ. He did't win 5 Art Ross trophies off of talent alone, otherwise Kovalev would have been right up there with Jagr.

I would say a more fair comparison would be Malkin and Jagr in terms of talent. Very few hockey players have ever had the combination of pure talent that Jagr had, I would only count Lemieux, Orr, Howe and Bobby Hull as being as talented as Jagr was.

 

[livewell68]

Didn't Jagr finish 2nd to only Fedorov in one of those mid 90s all-star fastest skater competitions?

He was quite fast before that groin injury.

I'd say Crosby might have the edge on agility/edgework, but in flat out speed Jagr probably wins, and thus overall it's close.

No one could spin and turn and change paces the way Jagr could in his prime. His agility was out of this world, especially for a such a big man. Jagr also did it with players hanging off of his back.