Jack Johnson leaves Michigan and is a KING!!!

[sweatypickle]

He's only 6'1 and looks shorter than that on the ice with the guys hes against, and how many physical d man are at that height

Scott Stevens is one of the most dominant hitters ever

 

[haelwho]

So wait, even if Gleason turns out to be the better player the Kings win? How do you figure that?

Of course if I was LA I'd take the risk, but it's not like LA gave up a 5th or 6th round draft choice. Gleason is a decent player at worst. That's nothing to sneeze at.

At the time of the deal, I don't see how you can say that the Kings didn't win the trade. Based purely on potential, Johnson was hands down the most valuable asset in the trade.

Nobody is saying Gleason isn't a good player, what everyone is saying is that Johnson has potential to be one of the best defensemen in his generation of players, which is saying something when it includes guys like Phaneuf, Weber, Pitkanen, etc.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Looking at the league leading hitters among defenseman;

Sean Hill 6'0
Anton Volchenkov 6'1
Stephane Robidas 5'11
Ruslan Salei 6'1
Garnet Exelby 6'1

Johnson is doing fine considering he just came up from playing college hockey right into the NHL. He doesn't show any panic or hesitation when handling the puck and he can handle the hits and will start dishing out his share of hits real soon.

 

[TC20]

Looking at the league leading hitters among defenseman;

Sean Hill 6'0
Anton Volchenkov 6'1
Stephane Robidas 5'11
Ruslan Salei 6'1
Garnet Exelby 6'1
QUOTE]


Well you proved me wrong at that point, he is going to be a very good defenceman and ill just wait and see if he ends up dominating physically still a few years away until the point at where he should anyways

 

[What the Faulk]

At the time of the deal, I don't see how you can say that the Kings didn't win the trade. Based purely on potential, Johnson was hands down the most valuable asset in the trade.

Nobody is saying Gleason isn't a good player, what everyone is saying is that Johnson has potential to be one of the best defensemen in his generation of players, which is saying something when it includes guys like Phaneuf, Weber, Pitkanen, etc.

That's not what the poster said. The poster said that if Gleason turns out to be a better player, the Kings still win the trade. That makes no sense.

And yes, several people have been saying Gleason is nothing.

Serves the Divers right

So how's Luongo working out this year?

 

[hototogisu]

So wait, even if Gleason turns out to be the better player the Kings win? How do you figure that?

Of course if I was LA I'd take the risk, but it's not like LA gave up a 5th or 6th round draft choice. Gleason is a decent player at worst. That's nothing to sneeze at.

Okay "win" is a strong word, but if Gleason turns out to be a solid D-man and Johnson busts, I'm calling it even. Reason being is that guys of Gleason's ilk are, while not being a dime a dozen, are not exactly uncommon either. He's replaceable from a Kings' perspective, to me. Johnson on the other hand is not replaced so easily for Carolina (or any team for that matter).

And you also have to consider how great of a difference it would be between Johnson's worst and Gleason's best. But that's getting into a whole other realm of hypotheses...

 

[Goallum]

That's not what the poster said. The poster said that if Gleason turns out to be a better player, the Kings still win the trade. That makes no sense.

And yes, several people have been saying Gleason is nothing.

You know why Kings still win the trade? If they were to trade JMFJ right now, or at the draft, do you really think they couldn't get a MUCH better deal than Gleason+Belanger+having to take Tverdovsky? You know that the return would be a lot better than that. Or let's put it in reverse, do you think that if over the Summer the Canes were to trade Gleason and Vasicek, and use Oleg's salary to sign a free agent the return would even come close to comparing with the return the Kings could get for JMFJ? That's why the Kings win the trade, they get more value. The Kings' net assets went up after the trade, while the Canes' went down.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

I hope staying an extra year to not even finish a worthless general studies degree was worth not winning a Stanley Cup, Jack!

 

[danaluvsthekings]

I hope staying an extra year to not even finish a worthless general studies degree was worth not winning a Stanley Cup, Jack!

I said this in another thread but there's no guarantee Johnson would have won a Stanley Cup if he had turned pro and started playing in Carolina last season. To convince him to leave school early it's likely they would have had to promise him big minutes in the playoffs because I doubt he would have left school to be a spare part like Tverdovsky was used in the playoffs last year. Doing that would have meant sitting one of their 6 d-men that had been playing regularly all season. Sitting a d-man that had been playing all season in favor of a rookie playing his first games in the NHL playoffs is something that a veteran isn't likely going to take too kindly to and it could have upset the chemistry in the locker room as well as messing up on ice chemistry by changing up defense pairs and potentially PP and/or PK units depending on which regular was taken out of the lineup. Plus, as great of a prospect as Johnson is, there's no guarantee he would have played well in the playoffs. That would have been tremendous pressure for Johnson, stepping right into the NHL playoffs without any regular season experience. The intensity of NHL playoff games is going to be a lot more than an NCAA game. Who knows what would have happened if the Canes changed their lineup to accommodate Johnson. He could have made mistakes that cost the Canes games or the series. New defense pairs or PK/PP units created by taking a regular out of the lineup could have made mistakes as well.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

I said this in another thread but there's no guarantee Johnson would have won a Stanley Cup if he had turned pro and started playing in Carolina last season. To convince him to leave school early it's likely they would have had to promise him big minutes in the playoffs because I doubt he would have left school to be a spare part like Tverdovsky was used in the playoffs last year. Doing that would have meant sitting one of their 6 d-men that had been playing regularly all season. Sitting a d-man that had been playing all season in favor of a rookie playing his first games in the NHL playoffs is something that a veteran isn't likely going to take too kindly to and it could have upset the chemistry in the locker room as well as messing up on ice chemistry by changing up defense pairs and potentially PP and/or PK units depending on which regular was taken out of the lineup. Plus, as great of a prospect as Johnson is, there's no guarantee he would have played well in the playoffs. That would have been tremendous pressure for Johnson, stepping right into the NHL playoffs without any regular season experience. The intensity of NHL playoff games is going to be a lot more than an NCAA game. Who knows what would have happened if the Canes changed their lineup to accommodate Johnson. He could have made mistakes that cost the Canes games or the series. New defense pairs or PK/PP units created by taking a regular out of the lineup could have made mistakes as well.

That's all true. But the fact is he passed up the opportunity to join a Stanley Cup contender to get another year on a degree of dubious value that he'll be hard pressed to finish in the first place. He doesn't seem to have any qualms joining a basement dweller like the Kings, though I expect they'll improve somewhat next season. Yeah it's great that he supposedly wants a college degree and I understand that playing college hockey and doing coursework is no easy task, but general studies? Give me a break.

 

[What the Faulk]

I really am wondering if anyone does any research before saying things on forums. Same defensive guys all year? Kaberle, Wesley, Ward, Hedican, Commodore, Tverdovsky, Wallin and Hutchinson all played over 35 games. You better believe if Johnson was signed, he would have played at least over Tverdovsky, Wallin and Hutchinson. Maybe Hedican and Ward too.

It's just no use arguing with some people. If Jack Johnson is a bust, the Canes win. Go back to the Caniacforever analogy. Yes there's a very good chance he could be better, but if he wasn't then you lose. Plain and simple.

 

[danaluvsthekings]

I really am wondering if anyone does any research before saying things on forums. Same defensive guys all year? Kaberle, Wesley, Ward, Hedican, Commodore, Tverdovsky, Wallin and Hutchinson all played over 35 games. You better believe if Johnson was signed, he would have played at least over Tverdovsky, Wallin and Hutchinson. Maybe Hedican and Ward too.

It's just no use arguing with some people. If Jack Johnson is a bust, the Canes win. Go back to the Caniacforever analogy. Yes there's a very good chance he could be better, but if he wasn't then you lose. Plain and simple.

The point is still valid. I wasn't talking regular season, I was talking playoffs, since the Canes made that push to sign Johnson before the playoffs started. Never have I tried to argue who won the trade/lost the trade.

In the playoffs last year Wesley, Ward, Commodore, Kaberle, Wallin, and Hedican all played 25 games with Tverdovsky playing 5 in games the Canes went with 7 d-men. Do you really think any of those veterans would have been happy to see their spot taken away in the playoffs by a kid with no NHL experience who hadn't been there helping the team all season? I don't think someone like Hedican or Ward would have taken too kindly to that. Taking one of those 6 out for Johnson would have upset at least 1 defensive pair and likely the PP/PK units as well. People always say Johnson missed out on the Cup by not going pro and joining the Hurricanes for the playoffs. I was just trying to point out that there is no guarantee that if you changed the makeup of the Canes defense (that was very consistent during the playoffs) that the Canes would have won the Cup, especially if they were using an untested rookie defenseman for decent minutes in the Stanley Cup playoffs.

 

[What the Faulk]

Carolina was trying to sign Johnson with the intention of playing him. Do you really think they would have signed him and kept him on the bench?

No, there is no guarantee that the Canes would have won the cup with Johnson. They probably even would have had a worse shot. Every one of those players with the exception of maybe Hedican contributed a lot to the playoff run. But Lavi had been going with 7 defensemen all year. You likely would have seen Ladd or LaRose or Craig Adams or someone like that sit instead of a defenseman. Johnson would have probably seen a good deal of ice time too with lots of time on the power play.

 

[no name]

That's all true. But the fact is he passed up the opportunity to join a Stanley Cup contender to get another year on a degree of dubious value that he'll be hard pressed to finish in the first place. He doesn't seem to have any qualms joining a basement dweller like the Kings, though I expect they'll improve somewhat next season. Yeah it's great that he supposedly wants a college degree and I understand that playing college hockey and doing coursework is no easy task, but general studies? Give me a break.

Who cares what he gets his degree in? I for one dont use the degree I earned. I rarely hire people based on what they majored in at school. It is the degree alone that earns respect and shows dedication.

He says he will finish his degree and from what we have seen from the kid we can only expect him to continue living up to his word.

 

[danaluvsthekings]

Carolina was trying to sign Johnson with the intention of playing him. Do you really think they would have signed him and kept him on the bench?

No, there is no guarantee that the Canes would have won the cup with Johnson. They probably even would have had a worse shot. Every one of those players with the exception of maybe Hedican contributed a lot to the playoff run. But Lavi had been going with 7 defensemen all year. You likely would have seen Ladd or LaRose or Craig Adams or someone like that sit instead of a defenseman. Johnson would have probably seen a good deal of ice time too with lots of time on the power play.

No, I said they probably would have had to promise him major minutes to get him to leave school going into the playoffs so I agree that they wouldn't have then kept him on the bench. I was just trying to point out for the people saying Johnson passed up a Stanley Cup that there's no guarantee he would have won one by turning pro for last year's playoffs. People tend to think in situations where they are talking about adding someone to a lineup about the positive impact someone is going to bring if you can add them to the lineup while forgetting that changing a lineup that's been working can have negative consequences as well. Who knows, perhaps it could have taken less games for the Canes to win if they had Johnson. But you can never guarantee a certain outcome when you start talking about changing a lineup. Chances might improve or decrease but there aren't guarantees.

 

[dabeechman]

That's all true. But the fact is he passed up the opportunity to join a Stanley Cup contender to get another year on a degree of dubious value that he'll be hard pressed to finish in the first place. He doesn't seem to have any qualms joining a basement dweller like the Kings, though I expect they'll improve somewhat next season. Yeah it's great that he supposedly wants a college degree and I understand that playing college hockey and doing coursework is no easy task, but general studies? Give me a break.

Heh...thats a pretty bold statement right there (literally and figuratively).

 

[Agent_Torpor]

Who cares what he gets his degree in? I for one dont use the degree I earned. I rarely hire people based on what they majored in at school. It is the degree alone that earns respect and shows dedication.

And this is exactly what's wrong with higher education today. Yeah, I double-majored in basketweaving and Icelandic botany, with a minor in obscure YouTube short film studies.

Why even bother looking at someone's college degree then? There's no dedication, esp. if daddy's footing the bill all four years and there's a raging kegger every weekend.

 

[danaluvsthekings]

And this is exactly what's wrong with higher education today. Yeah, I double-majored in basketweaving and Icelandic botany, with a minor in obscure YouTube short film studies.

Why even bother looking at someone's college degree then? There's no dedication, esp. if daddy's footing the bill all four years and there's a raging kegger every weekend.

That's not what the poster was trying to say. The poster was saying that many people go to college and get a degree and somehow end up working in a field that has nothing to do with their degree.

For example, my father has a BA in geography and went into the restaurant business with a fellow geography student. My dad has been working for the company for 27 years now and they have locations in 7 states. The only time he remotely comes close to using his geography skills is when they ask him to scout out potential locations for new restaurants.

Most college students end up changing their majors at least once. Asking a person to decide at 18 what they want to be doesn't always work for everyone. Many people get further and further along in their coursework for their paticular major and realize it's not for them. My cousin was 1 class away from her degree in nursing when she realized it wasn't for her, switched her major and now teaches middle school and loves it.

Could Johnson have been working on a more challenging major than general studies? It's easy to say he could have when we're looking at it from the perspective of outsiders. My cousin is redshirting this season for college baseball. He still has to go to practice, attend games, and work out with the team. He was an A student in high school but he's struggling trying to keep up his grades and his committments with the baseball team. He's not traveling with his team because he's not playing so he gets to attend more classes than some of the other players that have to travel for road trips. Let's be honest, the majority of college athletes in sports where there is the opportunity to turn professional (so I'm not talking about gymnasts and women's water polo) likely did not take a challenging course load full of AP classes in high school. Do I admire athletes that take challenging classes when in college or that go back to finish their degrees after they turn pro? Yes. But I also understand that many college athletes aren't the sharpest tools in the shed and understand that it might not be easy for athletes with their schedules to take harder classes than they do.

 

[sharkyz15]

That's not what the poster was trying to say. The poster was saying that many people go to college and get a degree and somehow end up working in a field that has nothing to do with their degree.

For example, my father has a BA in geography and went into the restaurant business with a fellow geography student. My dad has been working for the company for 27 years now and they have locations in 7 states. The only time he remotely comes close to using his geography skills is when they ask him to scout out potential locations for new restaurants.

Most college students end up changing their majors at least once. Asking a person to decide at 18 what they want to be doesn't always work for everyone. Many people get further and further along in their coursework for their paticular major and realize it's not for them. My cousin was 1 class away from her degree in nursing when she realized it wasn't for her, switched her major and now teaches middle school and loves it.

Could Johnson have been working on a more challenging major than general studies? It's easy to say he could have when we're looking at it from the perspective of outsiders. My cousin is redshirting this season for college baseball. He still has to go to practice, attend games, and work out with the team. He was an A student in high school but he's struggling trying to keep up his grades and his committments with the baseball team. He's not traveling with his team because he's not playing so he gets to attend more classes than some of the other players that have to travel for road trips. Let's be honest, the majority of college athletes in sports where there is the opportunity to turn professional (so I'm not talking about gymnasts and women's water polo) likely did not take a challenging course load full of AP classes in high school. Do I admire athletes that take challenging classes when in college or that go back to finish their degrees after they turn pro? Yes. But I also understand that many college athletes aren't the sharpest tools in the shed and understand that it might not be easy for athletes with their schedules to take harder classes than they do.

Great post

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Who cares what he gets his degree in? It is the degree alone that earns respect and shows dedication.

.. maybe 20 or 30 years ago. I really don't think this is still the case today, unless you have work experience that overshadows any necessary education credentials.

Could Johnson have been working on a more challenging major than general studies? It's easy to say he could have when we're looking at it from the perspective of outsiders. My cousin is redshirting this season for college baseball. He still has to go to practice, attend games, and work out with the team. He was an A student in high school but he's struggling trying to keep up his grades and his committments with the baseball team. He's not traveling with his team because he's not playing so he gets to attend more classes than some of the other players that have to travel for road trips. Let's be honest, the majority of college athletes in sports where there is the opportunity to turn professional (so I'm not talking about gymnasts and women's water polo) likely did not take a challenging course load full of AP classes in high school. Do I admire athletes that take challenging classes when in college or that go back to finish their degrees after they turn pro? Yes. But I also understand that many college athletes aren't the sharpest tools in the shed and understand that it might not be easy for athletes with their schedules to take harder classes than they do.

I realize it can't be easy to practice, play 30 odd games or however many it is per season and take a full courseload. But it really makes me wonder what he's thinking when he wasn't willing to leave college for a Stanley Cup run. Again it would make more sense if he was dedicated to some particular field of study, but it sounds more like he was satisfied with college life and didn't put that much importance on playing in the NHL. Sure that's speculation but there's gotta be a reason why Rutherford soured on him the way he did.

 

[Lupul*]

That's not what the poster said. The poster said that if Gleason turns out to be a better player, the Kings still win the trade. That makes no sense.

And yes, several people have been saying Gleason is nothing.



So how's Luongo working out this year?

amazingly

 

[no name]

.. maybe 20 or 30 years ago. I really don't think this is still the case today, unless you have work experience that overshadows any necessary education credentials.



I realize it can't be easy to practice, play 30 odd games or however many it is per season and take a full courseload. But it really makes me wonder what he's thinking when he wasn't willing to leave college for a Stanley Cup run. Again it would make more sense if he was dedicated to some particular field of study, but it sounds more like he was satisfied with college life and didn't put that much importance on playing in the NHL. Sure that's speculation but there's gotta be a reason why Rutherford soured on him the way he did.

He said he wanted to stay two years from the get go. Rutherford pushed him anyways. JJ stuck to his guns. They drafted him assuming they can push him into signing.

 

[The Viking Fury]

I hope staying an extra year to not even finish a worthless general studies degree was worth not winning a Stanley Cup, Jack!

Is it even remotely possible that he just did not want to play for Carolina? I mean, its not that far fetched is it?

 

[Kopistar]

This thread has turned into the Canes fans bashing johnson thread.

 

[dabeechman]

This thread has turned into the Canes fans bashing johnson thread.

That is what it always turns into