Jack Hughes or Alexis Lafreniere?

[Nicomo Cosca]

Not close... Lafreniere by a mile 100% of NHL GM will take him before Hughes ... He is bigger, stronger, more clutch, playing a abrasive style of game winning championship probably a PPG player a 19 years old ... sorry Hughes lover but they are not in same category Hughes is more of a Ryan Hopkins 1b or elite 2nd line center

I think this will probably look extremely silly in a few years...

 

[Dominance]

I'm still searching for the perfect player comp for Lafreniere.

Mr. Hockey.

 

[2014nyr]

That is some cherry-picking. Take a look how they really match-up:

(1) At the 2017 World Hockey Challenge, Lafreniere scored 6 pts in 6 games as a 16-year old (1.0 ppg). Hughes, also a 16-year old, scored 15 points in same amount of games (2.5 ppg).

(2) At the 2018 World U18, as a 16-year old, Lafreniere, scored 6 points. Also as a 16-year old, Hughes doubled Lafreniere's point total with 12 and won tournament MVP

(3) At 2019 World Juniors, Hughes was hurt...played in only half the games (and not at full strength). Yet he still put up a point-per-game as a 17-year old. Lafreniere put up 1 assist in five games (0.2 ppg) as a 17-year old in same tournament.

(4) At the 2019 World Championship, Hughes scored 3 assists in 7 games as a 17-year old (and was player of game against Russian team whose youngest player was Mikhail Sergachev, who already had two full NHL seasons under his belt). Lafreniere was not selected for Canadian team.

(5) At 2020 World Juniors, Lafreniere's play as 18-year was dominant with 2.0 ppg and MVP honors. Hughes didn't appear because he was playing in the NHL.

There is no way any professional talent evaluator would take PLAYER A at his best international tournament and PLAYER B at his worst international tournament and make that judgment.

If Lafreniere were born a few weeks earlier and was included in the 2019 draft, Hughes still would have been #1. And the conversation would be Lafreniere vs Kakko at #2.

Looking at 16 year old tournaments isn't relevant... the quality of play and structure even for elite levels changes so much from what the hockey looks like at a world hockey challenge to even u-18s, there's too much development going on in those years...not to mention for that specific one its a us team thats been playing together, and hughes year was an especially good one overall, while canada throws a couple regional teams together just prior

hughes had a great u-18s, no one would say otherwise, but thats another one where you have to keep in mind the continuity of the us team canada doesn't have. although one may note hughes was completely shut down in the gold medal game.

one key thing not mentioned about hughes being injured in the 19 world juniors is it was entirely his fault...he put himself in a position to get bundled by not being aware, and that was against team kazakhstan. it was a perfectly clean hit where he never picked his head going for a puck...he cannot put himself in spots like that if he's gonna survive in the nhl. i didn't see much of canada in 19, though laf did make the team d-1 while hughes did not make the us the prior year - and he was also likely buried on the canada bench and brought largely to get experience to be a leader the following year. sure he could have played his way up the lineup - would be interested to see some of his play that year to see what the eyeball test looked like rather than the statistics. certainly fair to consider since both were there..was also another gold medal game jack was so so at best

the worlds - look good for jack. showed well for his age at 17. but then again kakko was far better there than him, after besting him in the 18 and 20 gold medal games. so its not like he was even the best draft eligible there. and hey - its an awesome thing for him to get that experience, and its certainly an achievement to be considered / make a team like that...so 0 taken away from him there. but to note laf wasn't selected is just...head scratching. not sure if you're aware but the us has made it a priority to bring in some future talent on those teams annually. canada, meanwhile, does not do this...mostly because they have a far deeper pool of nhl guys with early summers to select from. its one thing to acknowledge jack for going and flashing some potential, but to knock laf for not going with canada is ignorant of reality. not to mention i'm not sure if there's been anyone selected prior to their draft year...i don't care enough to research that - prob an instance or 3 but id be shocked if it was a can/rus/swe/us team that did it

bottom line i don't have anything against jack. i love his style of play and was a much bigger fan of his than kakko last year. a year in, kakko's grown on me, but jack is going to be electric. he's another barzal type in how his skating and handles will carry the pace of shifts and we'll see how much offense he'll be able to add. i don't think him and laf are that close as prospects personally - to me laf brings just as much skill/hands, more size, i think better iq, physical, better shot...he's just far more well rounded and his production has been at the elite level...i also value that his production has sort of elevated continually into the draft where i did feel at times his draft year jack leveled. if you're looking at them as who you take on draft day as the higher probability player to be a franchise guy, its laf no question. i've seen and heard similar sentiment... by their draft i think hughes was closer to kakko than either are to laf as prospects. the former two look like they could become high end 1st line players/producers if everything works out, but laf is a guy that has the potential to be in that elite tier...not quite crosby/mcdavid level, but mackinnon/matthews are the sphere he belongs in. either way, they're all so young and so much can happen who knows what this looks like in 10 years. and at the end of the day i have my reasons for my opinion much the same as you have yours, doubt either of us will be the first posters in history to say "you know what, after reading how you see it i take back my thoughts and agree with yours" so we have that working against us

 

[Favin]

Looking at 16 year old tournaments isn't relevant... the quality of play and structure even for elite levels changes so much from what the hockey looks like at a world hockey challenge to even u-18s, there's too much development going on in those years...not to mention for that specific one its a us team thats been playing together, and hughes year was an especially good one overall, while canada throws a couple regional teams together just prior

hughes had a great u-18s, no one would say otherwise, but thats another one where you have to keep in mind the continuity of the us team canada doesn't have. although one may note hughes was completely shut down in the gold medal game.

one key thing not mentioned about hughes being injured in the 19 world juniors is it was entirely his fault...he put himself in a position to get bundled by not being aware, and that was against team kazakhstan. it was a perfectly clean hit where he never picked his head going for a puck...he cannot put himself in spots like that if he's gonna survive in the nhl. i didn't see much of canada in 19, though laf did make the team d-1 while hughes did not make the us the prior year - and he was also likely buried on the canada bench and brought largely to get experience to be a leader the following year. sure he could have played his way up the lineup - would be interested to see some of his play that year to see what the eyeball test looked like rather than the statistics. certainly fair to consider since both were there..was also another gold medal game jack was so so at best

the worlds - look good for jack. showed well for his age at 17. but then again kakko was far better there than him, after besting him in the 18 and 20 gold medal games. so its not like he was even the best draft eligible there. and hey - its an awesome thing for him to get that experience, and its certainly an achievement to be considered / make a team like that...so 0 taken away from him there. but to note laf wasn't selected is just...head scratching. not sure if you're aware but the us has made it a priority to bring in some future talent on those teams annually. canada, meanwhile, does not do this...mostly because they have a far deeper pool of nhl guys with early summers to select from. its one thing to acknowledge jack for going and flashing some potential, but to knock laf for not going with canada is ignorant of reality. not to mention i'm not sure if there's been anyone selected prior to their draft year...i don't care enough to research that - prob an instance or 3 but id be shocked if it was a can/rus/swe/us team that did it

bottom line i don't have anything against jack. i love his style of play and was a much bigger fan of his than kakko last year. a year in, kakko's grown on me, but jack is going to be electric. he's another barzal type in how his skating and handles will carry the pace of shifts and we'll see how much offense he'll be able to add. i don't think him and laf are that close as prospects personally - to me laf brings just as much skill/hands, more size, i think better iq, physical, better shot...he's just far more well rounded and his production has been at the elite level...i also value that his production has sort of elevated continually into the draft where i did feel at times his draft year jack leveled. if you're looking at them as who you take on draft day as the higher probability player to be a franchise guy, its laf no question. i've seen and heard similar sentiment... by their draft i think hughes was closer to kakko than either are to laf as prospects. the former two look like they could become high end 1st line players/producers if everything works out, but laf is a guy that has the potential to be in that elite tier...not quite crosby/mcdavid level, but mackinnon/matthews are the sphere he belongs in. either way, they're all so young and so much can happen who knows what this looks like in 10 years. and at the end of the day i have my reasons for my opinion much the same as you have yours, doubt either of us will be the first posters in history to say "you know what, after reading how you see it i take back my thoughts and agree with yours" so we have that working against us

I wasn't really debating Hughes vs Kakko....feel like that's for another day. And I think Lafreniere also didn't go to worlds last year because he was still in playoffs until about a week before. I don't know if he was even being considered or not...but even if he was, he may have been unavailable.

Also, one can never take out in obvious bias in evaluating these guys. Obviously a fan of one team will support their guy. But it is national rivalry thing too. Last year, Fins thought Kakko deserved #1, Americans thought Hughes #1. In this debate, Canadians (and NYR fans) see Lafreniere #1 while Americans (and NJD fans) generally would take Hughes over Lafreniere. I remember 2007 when many Canadians said Kyle Turris should be #1 overall over Patrick Kane. And in 2015 when Americans would say Eichel and McDavid were equal prospects. Or in 2013 between Seth Jones and Nathan MacKinnon. 1995, Berard and Redden. Its never said but always present.

 

[TheShowBizPizzaBear]

I'm still searching for the perfect player comp for Lafreniere.

Taylor Hall is one that comes to mind. They're similar profiles as 6'1 playmaking LWs and both have comparable CHL hardware going into their drafts. Hall was the undoubtedly the faster of the two, where as Lafrieniere seems to be the more well rounded of the two, less reliant on his skating than Hall and also pestier. I'd be interested to see where Hall would rank if thrown into this conversation.

 

[bsu]

pierre luc dubois but better play maker.

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

pierre luc dubois but better play maker.

Honestly whenever I watch him, I get this scrappier, better playmaking at expense of goals, Jarome Iginla vibe.

 

[bigdog16]

Taylor Hall is one that comes to mind. They're similar profiles as 6'1 playmaking LWs and both have comparable CHL hardware going into their drafts. Hall was the undoubtedly the faster of the two, where as Lafrieniere seems to be the more well rounded of the two, less reliant on his skating than Hall and also pestier. I'd be interested to see where Hall would rank if thrown into this conversation.

I dont think they play very similar. Laf would run Hall thru the glass

 

[ICanMotteBelieveIt]

This is how i see it.

Kakko could become a real good 2-way RW, Hossa-esque. No I'm not saying as good... Kakko needs to work on his skating, he looked better after the break.

Hughes could use some muscles, but he has gamebreaking potential. But i really think he needs to gain some more weight.

LAF seems like a beast. Really well rounded with that mentality you need when the playoffs start. He seems to have eyes in his neck, ridiculous vision. He compares himself to Patty Kane.

I get what he's saying, he's a skilled winger with absurd vision but he's way more physical and got a larger frame.

IMO he reminds me of a mesh between a skilled guy and some hardworking fwd. Kind of like Crosby, obviously nowhere near his level. But his skill, hardwork and will reminds me of Crosby.

First back to back winner of the CHL MVP since Crosby.


I think all three players will do well eventually.

Hughes and LAF are both supertalented.

Kakko as well, but he doesn't have the same ceiling as the others. Not a diss, just my POV.

Potential scoring if they reach their ceilings:

Hughes 90-100 points
LAF 90+ points
Kakko 60-70 points

 

[TheShowBizPizzaBear]

I dont think they play very similar. Laf would run Hall thru the glass

Hall's always had a bull in a china shop thing going but I totally agree that Lafreniere will likely be the more physically intimidating of the two.

 

[TheShowBizPizzaBear]

Lafreniere > Hughes for me, but it's close and both seem great.

 

[2014nyr]

I wasn't really debating Hughes vs Kakko....feel like that's for another day. And I think Lafreniere also didn't go to worlds last year because he was still in playoffs until about a week before. I don't know if he was even being considered or not...but even if he was, he may have been unavailable.

Also, one can never take out in obvious bias in evaluating these guys. Obviously a fan of one team will support their guy. But it is national rivalry thing too. Last year, Fins thought Kakko deserved #1, Americans thought Hughes #1. In this debate, Canadians (and NYR fans) see Lafreniere #1 while Americans (and NJD fans) generally would take Hughes over Lafreniere. I remember 2007 when many Canadians said Kyle Turris should be #1 overall over Patrick Kane. And in 2015 when Americans would say Eichel and McDavid were equal prospects. Or in 2013 between Seth Jones and Nathan MacKinnon. 1995, Berard and Redden. Its never said but always present.

sorry for any confusion, but i didn't intend to make this hughes vs kakko either, no interest in going there. it just so happened he was the second pick in jack's draft but yea it sucks they're part of the same rivalry because i didn't intend at all to try and turn this into a pi**ing match. really it was meant to bucket them at one level - very high end prospects - while in my opinion i would put lafreniere in a tier above that in the eichel/matthews/mackinnon sphere. mentioning the worlds specifically brought him to mind since they were both there and played very well ...that was the biggest reason i used him. And certainly agree on no matter how hard you try to remain conscious of your own biases and want to be completely objective be it team/nationality/whatever your affiliation, its likely at least subconsciously that will influence how you take in the information you use to arrive there. and while i am a ranger fan and overjoyed with the player we're likely about to add i will say i'm not in the "anything devils = bad" boat by any means. i'm also an american, and i loved hughes coming out and still do. just happen to think lafreniere is a higher caliber prospect. but i'm open to being wrong, wouldn't be the first time. just something to talk about when there's not much else going on

 

[BB88]

This is how i see it.

Kakko could become a real good 2-way RW, Hossa-esque. No I'm not saying as good... Kakko needs to work on his skating, he looked better after the break.

Hughes could use some muscles, but he has gamebreaking potential. But i really think he needs to gain some more weight.

LAF seems like a beast. Really well rounded with that mentality you need when the playoffs start. He seems to have eyes in his neck, ridiculous vision. He compares himself to Patty Kane.

I get what he's saying, he's a skilled winger with absurd vision but he's way more physical and got a larger frame.

IMO he reminds me of a mesh between a skilled guy and some hardworking fwd. Kind of like Crosby, obviously nowhere near his level. But his skill, hardwork and will reminds me of Crosby.

First back to back winner of the CHL MVP since Crosby.


I think all three players will do well eventually.

Hughes and LAF are both supertalented.

Kakko as well, but he doesn't have the same ceiling as the others. Not a diss, just my POV.

Potential scoring if they reach their ceilings:

Hughes 90-100 points
LAF 90+ points
Kakko 60-70 points

Off topic but that’s real low for Kakko

 

[golgoXIII]

I think this will probably look extremely silly in a few years...

you wanna bet

 

[twotonfrankie1]

This is how i see it.

Kakko could become a real good 2-way RW, Hossa-esque. No I'm not saying as good... Kakko needs to work on his skating, he looked better after the break.

Hughes could use some muscles, but he has gamebreaking potential. But i really think he needs to gain some more weight.

LAF seems like a beast. Really well rounded with that mentality you need when the playoffs start. He seems to have eyes in his neck, ridiculous vision. He compares himself to Patty Kane.

I get what he's saying, he's a skilled winger with absurd vision but he's way more physical and got a larger frame.

IMO he reminds me of a mesh between a skilled guy and some hardworking fwd. Kind of like Crosby, obviously nowhere near his level. But his skill, hardwork and will reminds me of Crosby.

First back to back winner of the CHL MVP since Crosby.


I think all three players will do well eventually.

Hughes and LAF are both supertalented.

Kakko as well, but he doesn't have the same ceiling as the others. Not a diss, just my POV.

Potential scoring if they reach their ceilings:

Hughes 90-100 points
LAF 90+ points
Kakko 60-70 points

60-70 points for Kakko as his ceiling? Yikes. All things go well with him he's a 90 point player.

 

[J bo Jeans]

That is some cherry-picking. Take a look how they really match-up:

(1) At the 2017 World Hockey Challenge, Lafreniere scored 6 pts in 6 games as a 16-year old (1.0 ppg). Hughes, also a 16-year old, scored 15 points in same amount of games (2.5 ppg).

(2) At the 2018 World U18, as a 16-year old, Lafreniere, scored 6 points. Also as a 16-year old, Hughes doubled Lafreniere's point total with 12 and won tournament MVP

(3) At 2019 World Juniors, Hughes was hurt...played in only half the games (and not at full strength). Yet he still put up a point-per-game as a 17-year old. Lafreniere put up 1 assist in five games (0.2 ppg) as a 17-year old in same tournament.

(4) At the 2019 World Championship, Hughes scored 3 assists in 7 games as a 17-year old (and was player of game against Russian team whose youngest player was Mikhail Sergachev, who already had two full NHL seasons under his belt). Lafreniere was not selected for Canadian team.

(5) At 2020 World Juniors, Lafreniere's play as 18-year was dominant with 2.0 ppg and MVP honors. Hughes didn't appear because he was playing in the NHL.

There is no way any professional talent evaluator would take PLAYER A at his best international tournament and PLAYER B at his worst international tournament and make that judgment.

If Lafreniere were born a few weeks earlier and was included in the 2019 draft, Hughes still would have been #1. And the conversation would be Lafreniere vs Kakko at #2.

(1) and (2) are not best on best tournaments. The World hockey challenge is always dominated by US teams as Canadian teams pick from second tier jr A leagues. Furthermore, your play as a 16 year doesnt mean squat. And how can you say Hughes would've been #1? Laf put up 105 points in the Q that year. Jack Hughes put up similar numbers only on the u18 team.

 

[mphmiles]

Curious to see if anyone's opinions have changed in here. This was a pretty lopsided poll.

 

[Akrapovince]

Not really sure there is much to discuss at this point, Hughes floor and ceiling trends towards something higher than Laf will ever be.

Don’t get me wrong, Laf is the ultimate Swiss Army knife, high compete level, leadership, coupled with a well rounded offensive game. However, it’s pretty clear, if you’re looking for the safest, most impactful NHL player, you’re going with Hughes.

You’re an expending franchise and need to absolutely hit on a player? You pick Hughes. You’re a fringe playoff team that luckily lucked into the first overall draft pick and looking for a player to push you over the bubble? Yeah. You go Hughes.

All around, plug and play 70+ player go Laf
Drive offense, breakout plays 80+ Player go Hughes

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Curious to see if anyone's opinions have changed in here. This was a pretty lopsided poll.

Mine has not

 

[bsu]

This has been Hughes all along. I've said it on here forever.

 

[ijuka]

Well I voted for Hughes and don't see reason to change.

 

[lawrence]

apparently my unchanged vote was Hughes. He has 34 points in 31 games. dude is already above point per game. He's an offensive beast and the scouts got it right.

 

[koyvoo]

So, it was definitive in one directed when they were 18-19 years old. Now, they’re 20-21 years old and opinion has swayed heavily?

Definitive, you guys?

 

[NJ DevLolz]

So, it was definitive in one directed when they were 18-19 years old. Now, they’re 20-21 years old and opinion has swayed heavily?

Definitive, you guys?

Yes it’s definitive. Hughes was driving offense in his second year and produced 2C numbers playing with Sharangovich and Kuokkanen lol.

 

[Peasy]

93leafs put it exactly how it has sort of shaped out. Hughes has shown his dynamic and elite skills that will help him be a top producer in this league, while laf has struggled to adjust and has yet to show any elite NHL tools.

Throughout hughes' first two seasons it was so obvious to separate the people that actually watch Hughes from the people that just looked at his stat line. Hughes has shown his elite skills ever since he entered the NHL. He was just extremely undersized and took some time to adjust. He also had horrible linemates his first two years as well and had extremely low on ice shooting %s.

I still remember people calling Hughes a massive bust after his second season. Hughes will likely flirt with 100 points throughout his career. His skating, vision, passing and puck handling are all elite.