Player Discussion Jack Eichel Part 1

[enthusiast]

I would have hoped to see a top 5 centre at this point, but that's my expectation as a fan and not his fault.

 

[Mattilaus]

HFboards, where an undrafted teenager is already a lock to be a 100 pt player and is more valuable than a 22 year old #1 C who is a proven ppg player on the worst team in the league.

 

[Icicle]

Here's a question. LA wants a big name, they win the lottery. Would you trade Eichel for the #1 pick and just hit the reset button? Possible we get #2, Start building with Dahlin, Hughes, Kakko, and Mitts.

Replace Eichel with Reinhart and we’re talking. Around these parts Reinhart is a pretty big name

 

[Aladyyn]

Eichel from first half of the season was all we wanted him to be. Just gotta figure out how to get that guy for an entire season.

 

[OkimLom]

Huh?

He is definitely well above average offensively. Maybe not in a traditional way, but his point totals and transition numbers put him in the top 15 of centers.

Love his transition game. Seeing how much of the game goes through him, I would expect a higher point total, quite frankly.

But outside of those areas, he really is easy to contain on the ice. If you can get a guy on him, you can keep him to the outside pretty easily thus shutting down the Sabres offense and shutting down Jack. Sure he may possess the puck for a bit, but he's not at risk of attacking the middle of the ice for the majority of the time.

He has trouble making a pass into space for his guy to skate/retrieve the puck in, and instead of simple passes that are far more effective and safer, he goes for the more the riskier, and "highlight reel" pass.

His shot accuracy, is very bad considering the power of his shot. He doesn't put himself into high scoring areas of the ice when he doesn't have the puck, not to mention, he's slow to get into support areas where players can relieve the pressure and keep possession alive.

I love the guy's raw talent, and for the most part that is what has gotten him to this point in his hockey career. But the guys that really are top notch and well above average in offense do the small things consistently and thrive on creating small plays which lead to bigger plays. I do believe he can get there. But he's going to need to be coached this, or train with guys where he can pick it up.

 

[Orange Fanta]

Love his transition game. Seeing how much of the game goes through him, I would expect a higher point total, quite frankly.

But outside of those areas, he really is easy to contain on the ice. If you can get a guy on him, you can keep him to the outside pretty easily thus shutting down the Sabres offense and shutting down Jack. Sure he may possess the puck for a bit, but he's not at risk of attacking the middle of the ice for the majority of the time.

He has trouble making a pass into space for his guy to skate/retrieve the puck in, and instead of simple passes that are far more effective and safer, he goes for the more the riskier, and "highlight reel" pass.

His shot accuracy, is very bad considering the power of his shot. He doesn't put himself into high scoring areas of the ice when he doesn't have the puck, not to mention, he's slow to get into support areas where players can relieve the pressure and keep possession alive.

I love the guy's raw talent, and for the most part that is what has gotten him to this point in his hockey career. But the guys that really are top notch and well above average in offense do the small things consistently and thrive on creating small plays which lead to bigger plays. I do believe he can get there. But he's going to need to be coached this, or train with guys where he can pick it up.

I'd also add that he needs to add shiftiness to his skating arsenal and be more deceptive and work on his play away from the puck but he has improved steadily every year both in production and defensive ability

 

[Member 308457]

The desperation of the Sabres has forced a huge leadership burden on Eichel and has taken away from his normal development as a player. He still needs to get used to the NHL level of hockey and round out his game. Look at his defensive liabilities, his attempts to do it all, the lockerroom interviews after losses... He cannot consistently lead by example at this stage. What Eichel needs is what Evander Kane got. To be inserted onto a team with built-in veteran leadership so he can contribute at his own pace as he ramps up his career.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

The desperation of the Sabres has forced a huge leadership burden on Eichel and has taken away from his normal development as a player. He still needs to get used to the NHL level of hockey and round out his game. Look at his defensive liabilities, his attempts to do it all, the lockerroom interviews after losses... He cannot consistently lead by example at this stage. What Eichel needs is what Evander Kane got. To be inserted onto a team with built-in veteran leadership so he can contribute at his own pace as he ramps up his career.

A great young player in today's NHL cannot lift a team all by himself.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Eichel from first half of the season was all we wanted him to be. Just gotta figure out how to get that guy for an entire season.

Right? First half of the season, Eichel was a Hart contender --- near the top of league scoring and lifting this sad bunch into a playoff spot. He's shown us he's capable of great things. I'm optimistic that a capable coaching staff could get that type of play and production for an entire 82 games (and also a lot more from the rest of the roster). Just keeping my fingers crossed that the Sabres finally manage to hire some competent people this off-season.

 

[truthbluth]

Serious question. What do we do if Jack demands a trade? Let him sit out a season?

 

[Gabrielor]

Serious question. What do we do if Jack demands a trade? Let him sit out a season?

Try with all our might to get a mammoth package, and build around Dahlin. I don’t want this at all, but we would have a logical fall-back.

If Dahlin wants a trade? I don’t know...fold the franchise?

 

[truthbluth]

Try with all our might to get a mammoth package, and build around Dahlin. I don’t want this at all, but we would have a logical fall-back.

If Dahlin wants a trade? I don’t know...fold the franchise?

I think this is where I'm. I don't believe Dahlin would request yet. It's been four years of toxicity for Jack. I could see him just being done. Listening to WGR this morning, I had a waking nightmare about what could happen if the lockerroom just hates Phil, and he doesn't get tossed.
Jack demands a trade.
Sam demands a trade once Jack is traded.
Risto demands a trade (he was clearly a different player after the trade rumors swirled)
And then Terry, who reportedly values loyalty quite a bit, tells Botts to get rid of all of them.

This is obviously a nightmare fantasy and wouldn't happen, but I couldn't imagine a result from such a thing that wouldn't just destroy the franchise completely. Er, maybe we're already there and I just don't realize it.

 

[Gabrielor]

I think this is where I'm. I don't believe Dahlin would request yet. It's been four years of toxicity for Jack. I could see him just being done. Listening to WGR this morning, I had a waking nightmare about what could happen if the lockerroom just hates Phil, and he doesn't get tossed.
Jack demands a trade.
Sam demands a trade once Jack is traded.
Risto demands a trade (he was clearly a different player after the trade rumors swirled)
And then Terry, who reportedly values loyalty quite a bit, tells Botts to get rid of all of them.

This is obviously a nightmare fantasy and wouldn't happen, but I couldn't imagine a result from such a thing that wouldn't just destroy the franchise completely. Er, maybe we're already there and I just don't realize it.

I think there’s credibility to the idea that the tank core wants out. Girgensons Larsson and Ristolainen. They’ve seen too much of the black hole.

I don’t think Jack wants out. For all the bashing he’s given, including from myself, he’s shown motivation to be great, and loyalty to Buffalo.

 

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

Try with all our might to get a mammoth package, and build around Dahlin. I don’t want this at all, but we would have a logical fall-back.

If Dahlin wants a trade? I don’t know...fold the franchise?

The future will be so bright, we'll have all the conditional 1st rounders!

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Larsson and Girgensons' first priorities are NHL contracts.

 

[Chainshot]

How much has the coaching improved in the last 3 seasons? How much has the supporting cast around him improved?

The coaching has not moved the needle on anyone in that time, Bylsma or Housley both. The cast has improved marginally IMO, especially now that Reinhart has matured, Dahlin has arrived, and how Skinner opened up the ice for that line in a way players like Kane never did.

The rest of the roster is not good and deployment of Reinhart with Jack does nothing to drive any other line. I still see a player who is trying to do it all himself now that the season has unwound around them. The unravelling looks like it bothers him, that his own performance is bothering him. I don't get an entitlement vibe from him presently, but I do sense serious frustration.

 

[GellMann]

Eichel from first half of the season was all we wanted him to be. Just gotta figure out how to get that guy for an entire season.

I 100% believe we would have gotten that if the inevitable dry spell was backed up by middle-six scoring. Our middle six did stretches like 1 goal combined in a 4 week stretch instead.

The snowball effect then took down the entire top line, which is the only thing the other team has to care about.

If only we had a rock solid center for the other top six line instead of Vladimir Sobotka (who yes, is now being used as a bottom line/bottom six player, but was the 4th-most-played forward for the entire collapse until recently).

But yeah, basic roster construction competence would have kept us afloat and Jack would have churned out 95 points. Sam would have been over 70, etc.

 

[GellMann]

Try with all our might to get a mammoth package, and build around Dahlin. I don’t want this at all, but we would have a logical fall-back.

If Dahlin wants a trade? I don’t know...fold the franchise?

I had a dream where the Oilers and Sabres both failed their tank prizes, and both requested a trade (it wasn't this summer, it was next summer in the dream).

I don't think it'll happen with Jack, but I think the Oilers fans are going to have to brace for it. I hope neither team does.

My god our franchises are a joke.

 

[GellMann]

I think there’s credibility to the idea that the tank core wants out. Girgensons Larsson and Ristolainen. They’ve seen too much of the black hole.

I don’t think Jack wants out. For all the bashing he’s given, including from myself, he’s shown motivation to be great, and loyalty to Buffalo.

And every small comment I've ever heard, in public and through the grapevine, indicates that while we're mean on the internet, in real life people are incredibly kind and gracious to Jack when they see him at Wegmans and stuff. And that he truly appreciates it and understands what life can be like for hockey players in markets like Toronto/MTL.

 

[Buffaloed]

Serious question. What do we do if Jack demands a trade? Let him sit out a season?

The Sabres need to beef up the medical staff and be more proactive recognizing the symptoms and treating PTSD. Ketamine is turning out to be a PTSD wonder drug. The great thing about it is they'll have no memory of being abducted during the night and treated.

 

[1972]

Eichel from first half of the season was all we wanted him to be. Just gotta figure out how to get that guy for an entire season.

I agree, but those this point the longest stretch of elite play from him has probably only been 30 games. In an 82 game season we need 60 games of elite play from Jack, not 40. I get no player is at his best each and every game, but he has to be more often then not.

 

[sabrebuild]

Love his transition game. Seeing how much of the game goes through him, I would expect a higher point total, quite frankly.

But outside of those areas, he really is easy to contain on the ice. If you can get a guy on him, you can keep him to the outside pretty easily thus shutting down the Sabres offense and shutting down Jack. Sure he may possess the puck for a bit, but he's not at risk of attacking the middle of the ice for the majority of the time.

He has trouble making a pass into space for his guy to skate/retrieve the puck in, and instead of simple passes that are far more effective and safer, he goes for the more the riskier, and "highlight reel" pass.

His shot accuracy, is very bad considering the power of his shot. He doesn't put himself into high scoring areas of the ice when he doesn't have the puck, not to mention, he's slow to get into support areas where players can relieve the pressure and keep possession alive.

I love the guy's raw talent, and for the most part that is what has gotten him to this point in his hockey career. But the guys that really are top notch and well above average in offense do the small things consistently and thrive on creating small plays which lead to bigger plays. I do believe he can get there. But he's going to need to be coached this, or train with guys where he can pick it up.

I don't disagree with many of your points.

I just think as long as the physical ability remains, the overall package is still incredible enough.

When he is engaged he is a top 15 or better offensive center.

 

[OkimLom]

I don't disagree with many of your points.

I just think as long as the physical ability remains, the overall package is still incredible enough.

When he is engaged he is a top 15 or better offensive center.

I like Eichel a lot, but there is just a lot missing from his game, things that if he worked on and put forth the effort into making a part of his game, he would absolutely become a top 3 player in the league today. A lot of that is Eichel himself pushing himself to do those things, and some of it needing to be taught by competent coaching. Imagine instead of Eichel coasting with his legs apart from the red line to the blue line/offensive zone, he was pumping his legs. It can't be a once in a while thing, it has to be done all the time. Sure in the beginning, it may not work, but if there is effort and determination from Jack to do this, he would find it easier as the games wore on. The zone entries would be easier for him as teams would need adjust for his speed and power. That leads to teams maybe backing off the line, which opens up lanes for his teammates. Things like that. There is so much potential in Jack.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I like Eichel a lot, but there is just a lot missing from his game, things that if he worked on and put forth the effort into making a part of his game, he would absolutely become a top 3 player in the league today. A lot of that is Eichel himself pushing himself to do those things, and some of it needing to be taught by competent coaching. Imagine instead of Eichel coasting with his legs apart from the red line to the blue line/offensive zone, he was pumping his legs. It can't be a once in a while thing, it has to be done all the time. Sure in the beginning, it may not work, but if there is effort and determination from Jack to do this, he would find it easier as the games wore on. The zone entries would be easier for him as teams would need adjust for his speed and power. That leads to teams maybe backing off the line, which opens up lanes for his teammates. Things like that. There is so much potential in Jack.

I'm so sick of this myth that Eichel is coasting just because he's not always churning his legs. The guy is elite on his edges, and, if you watch him closely, you'll notice he's constantly making much smaller, more energy-efficient moves to maintain or even gain speed as he's moving. I also have no questions about his work ethic -- you don't get to be the caliber of athlete and player Eichel is by being lazy. The biggest thing that's missing for him is competent guidance from our coaching staff. This is Eichel's 4th year with this team, and he's still yet to play for a half decent coach.

 

[sabrebuild]

I'm so sick of this myth that Eichel is coasting just because he's not always churning his legs. The guy is elite on his edges, and, if you watch him closely, you'll notice he's constantly making much smaller, more energy-efficient moves to maintain or even gain speed as he's moving. I also have no questions about his work ethic -- you don't get to be the caliber of athlete and player Eichel is by being lazy. The biggest thing that's missing for him is competent guidance from our coaching staff. This is Eichel's 4th year with this team, and he's still yet to play for a half decent coach.

No disagreement on the coaching. But the he is a big guy/posture defense is bogus.

He regularly slows down offense, to his detriment. He is visibly not a high pace player. It's a successful strategy for some players. It's just odd when he is probably a top 5 skater in the league.

But that probably leads back to coaching and discipline.