Player Discussion Jack Eichel Part 1

[sabrebuild]

Who is Layne? And what did he say?

I hadn’t heard this and am curious what you are talking about now.

Thanks.

La cosa nostra’s old username. He just said it. It’s silly pants talk.

 

[stokes84]

I love both players and wish the best for both, it is sad others are incapable of doing the same.

I’m pretty sure we all wish the best for both, but we have different opinions of how valuable they are to the team. Let’s not conflate what’s going on here.

 

[Royal Thunder]

Eichel's contract is just fine, thrilled to have a superstar center locked up long term at market value.

 

[haseoke39]

The war for when it's an appropriate time to talk about something wages on. Literally told all last year he wasn't making that money yet so it's irrelevant to complain.

 

[jc17]

True, move on from something that starts this season. Sounds pretty reasonable.

Ignore everything and just be a blind homer that loves everything about the franchise. Why bother with critical thinking?

Ugh, the Jerry Sullivan special.

Sorry we can't all match the critical thinking skills of you intellectuals on this board. We'll go back to reading simple Archer comics and daydream about the Sabres being a better team.

Why can't people just be accept that the contract's already signed?

 

[Aladyyn]

I have no need to prop up something that has been settled. We all want the Sabres to be good, and that would include Reinhart being an impact player. But hoping for that to happen vs. expecting it to happen vs. thinking it has happened already are different levels that various different posters are on.

Did you skip like, the last 9 months?

 

[joshjull]

I've always been confused by this perception. If you pick any player on a consistently bad team, one that gets interviewed a lot, and watched them closely, you get the exact same stuff as Eichel has shown. McDavid has broken sticks and had pissed off interviews plenty of time, but he's a calm, cool leader.

But when Jack does it everyone assumes he's storming into Terry's office telling him to fire coaches, spitting in the faces of reporters, ignoring all his teammates who he thinks suck.

The general perception of Jack around the league/among fans here and what Jack actually is, relative to any other hockey player and person, are starkly different things.

I agree with your general sentiment here for those on the outside looking in. But it seems the gist of this article is about how Jack feels. As in he feels he needs to stop with that stuff.

I am struck by how much it sounds like Jack Eichel has matured (ans not just in this interview alone).

Also, he did not sound at all broken up over the moves made this summer, including the ROR trade.

Just the opposite - he seems to be somewhat energized by the moves, IMO. And says that these changes needed to happen.

Hopefully we see that carry into camp and the season. I'm excited to see it.

And yet some on here won’t like that he’s producing like that because we’ll Jack just isn’t blue collar enough for their liking. #onlyinbuffalo

I disagree with a lot of the criticism Jack gets on here but I don't think it has much to do with being blue collar enough or not.

 

[joshjull]

True, move on from something that starts this season. Sounds pretty reasonable.

Ignore everything and just be a blind homer that loves everything about the franchise. Why bother with critical thinking?

You might want to take your own advice.

He can talk all he wants, time for him to step up to the price tag and carry this team

I would hardly call this critical thinking. Its just complaining about his deal and declaring he needs to do something individual players don't actually do in the NHL (carry a team). All because a few posters had the temerity to get excited about what Jack had to say in a recent interview. Heaven forbid we let that slide by without some countering negativity.

 

[joshjull]

Ugh, the Jerry Sullivan special.

Sorry we can't all match the critical thinking skills of you intellectuals on this board. We'll go back to reading simple Archer comics and daydream about the Sabres being a better team.

Why can't people just be accept that the contract's already signed?

There is nothing wrong with debating the deal. But I think the framing by some is missing the big picture. The fact that Jack gets 10mil per year doesn't really matter. What matters is the team made a huge commitment to him with a 8 year deal and the expectations that come with it. He needs to meet the expectations the franchise has for him or we are in trouble. That would be the case if he was making 8, 9, 10 or 11mil per on his 8yr deal. I felt this way when he signed it. I was glad he was locked up for 8 years. Its how I will feel if we get Sam locked up long term. Even if its perceived to be an "overpayment". I don't really care nor should anyone else. I want my young stars locked in during their prime years. Those are not the deals that get you in trouble. Its overpaying support or lesser players that do you in (Moulson and maybe Okposo but hopefully not). It hasn't hurt us now because we aren't in a cap crunch.

 

[Montag DP]

I just find it incredibly lame that no matter what the thread is actually supposed to be about, the discussion always makes its way back to only 3 things:

1. Is Jack overpaid?
2. Reinhardt vs Eichel
3. The ROR trade

Of course, in this thread Eichel contract discussion is perfectly on topic, but as a broader point, do we really have that short a collective attention span?

 

[WeDislikeEich]

La cosa nostra’s old username. He just said it. It’s silly pants talk.

Thanks. Appreciate it.

Yeah it sounded pretty far fetched to me, which is why I was interested in the details...

 

[sabrebuild]

There is nothing wrong with debating the deal. But I think the framing by some is missing the big picture. The fact that Jack gets 10mil per year doesn't really matter. What matters is the team made a huge commitment to him with a 8 year deal and the expectations that come with it. He needs to meet the expectations the franchise has for him or we are in trouble. That would be the case if he was making 8, 9, 10 or 11mil per on his 8yr deal. I felt this way when he signed it. I was glad he was locked up for 8 years. Its how I will feel if we get Sam locked up long term. Even if its perceived to be an "overpayment". I don't really care nor should anyone else. I want my young stars locked in during their prime years. Those are not the deals that get you in trouble. Its overpaying support or lesser players that do you in (Moulson and maybe Okposo but hopefully not). It hasn't hurt us now because we aren't in a cap crunch.

I think everyone agrees with the idea of locking up great young players.

But the cap hit does matter to judging the gm. And I suspect lots of ppl who get annoyed with anyone discussing if Eichel is worth that contract, think that it’s personal towards Eichel. It’s not at all. The questionable aspect of that deal is on Botts.

How soon into the deal does he become worth that cap hit? Did that deal cause any issues with putting pressure on Jack? What was the need to sign him at that point for top dollar?

The Jack contract talk in my mind is mostly about Botts’ies judgment and whether we should trust his judgment.

I’m very curious about Matthew’s deal. If Matthews or Laine get 11-12 this summer, I will take back my concerns, to some degree, about the decision to give that deal to Eichel.

But if Toronto locks up Matthews for 9 a year...

That Kucherov deal really hurts the idea that 10 was the number Eichel was worth after one less than ppg 60 game season.

 

[jc17]

I just find it incredibly lame that no matter what the thread is actually supposed to be about, the discussion always makes its way back to only 3 things:

1. Is Jack overpaid?
2. Reinhardt vs Eichel
3. The ROR trade

Of course, in this thread Eichel contract discussion is perfectly on topic, but as a broader point, do we really have that short a collective attention span?

It is lame, but at the same time it's august and nothing new is happening. I've been watching the same Dahlin highlight videos to try to get excited.

I think the biggest still up in the air that can be discussed is who makes the final roster.

There is nothing wrong with debating the deal. But I think the framing by some is missing the big picture. The fact that Jack gets 10mil per year doesn't really matter. What matters is the team made a huge commitment to him with a 8 year deal and the expectations that come with it. He needs to meet the expectations the franchise has for him or we are in trouble. That would be the case if he was making 8, 9, 10 or 11mil per on his 8yr deal. I felt this way when he signed it. I was glad he was locked up for 8 years. Its how I will feel if we get Sam locked up long term. Even if its perceived to be an "overpayment". I don't really care nor should anyone else. I want my young stars locked in during their prime years. Those are not the deals that get you in trouble. Its overpaying support or lesser players that do you in (Moulson and maybe Okposo but hopefully not). It hasn't hurt us now because we aren't in a cap crunch.

I agree. And I understand the argument that if you save 1 million or 2 on eichel you can use it to get better supporting players, I just think it's another debate without an end-goal. There's a group of people who are fine with the deal and a group that aren't, and its unlikely anyone will change their minds in the immediate future.

The contract debates are so tough because we really don't know what goes on behind closed doors. I guess you can make that argument for anything, though. Like, if Eichel was demanding 10 and not budging what would have happened. There's 0% chance we were ever going to trade the face of our franchise.

 

[sabrebuild]

I just find it incredibly lame that no matter what the thread is actually supposed to be about, the discussion always makes its way back to only 3 things:

1. Is Jack overpaid?
2. Reinhardt vs Eichel
3. The ROR trade

Of course, in this thread Eichel contract discussion is perfectly on topic, but as a broader point, do we really have that short a collective attention span?

True.

But what things are actually interesting right now that isn’t complete guessing?

Convos hoping a dozen rookies and no names show up and are good, are fun, but don’t last long.

Is our gm good, dumb or incomplete is about the only existential thing that matters after 7 years of irrelevance.

 

[5 Minute Major]

True, move on from something that starts this season. Sounds pretty reasonable.

Ignore everything and just be a blind homer that loves everything about the franchise. Why bother with critical thinking?

Critical thinking.

Like we are discussing nuclear physics.

You critical thinker you!

 

[jc17]

I think everyone agrees with the idea of locking up great young players.

But the cap hit does matter to judging the gm. And I suspect lots of ppl who get annoyed with anyone discussing if Eichel is worth that contract, think that it’s personal towards Eichel. It’s not at all. The questionable aspect of that deal is on Botts.

How soon into the deal does he become worth that cap hit? Did that deal cause any issues with putting pressure on Jack? What was the need to sign him at that point for top dollar?

The Jack contract talk in my mind is mostly about Botts’ies judgment and whether we should trust his judgment.

I’m very curious about Matthew’s deal. If Matthews or Laine get 11-12 this summer, I will take back my concerns, to some degree, about the decision to give that deal to Eichel.

But if Toronto locks up Matthews for 9 a year...

That Kucherov deal really hurts the idea that 10 was the number Eichel was worth after one less than ppg 60 game season.

Again, I'm not exactly sure what the expectations for Botterill were. "Just sign him for $8M" is easier said than done. There's no magic wand. The only option would have been to just not sign him until he gave in, which is a really bad relationship to start off with, or trade him which would have been outrageous. Eichel had the bargaining power.

 

[jc17]

Regarding Kucherov:

• He gets to play for a cup contender
• He get's more of the money due to taxes (although cost of living is probably higher)
• He's being paid 9.5M until he's 33. Eichel until he's 29. I think this is overlooked. They both could still be good players at those points in their career, I hope Eichel is but there's less of a risk involved. If Kucherov goes downhill TB is on the hook for $$$

And don't forget Kucherov was signed after Eichel. Draisaitl got 8.5. There was no way Eichel was getting less than him. Maybe 9 or 9.5 would have been nice, but at that point we're splitting hairs.

 

[Tatanka]

IIRC Jack said before camp last year that "he hasn't done anything yet" and was perfectly happy playing out the year and taking contract in the offseason. Our GM was faced with a choice. A, offer a decent deal that might be excessive based on historical numbers and ensured the avoided a possible breakout McJesus like year that would have increased his market value or; B hope Jack fell on his face and he could low ball him to get a long term deal at below market value. I am not a Botts fanboy and have been critical of a majority of his moves while also giving credit where deserved like the Sheary acquisition. I will give him the benefit of the doubt on this one because whether I think Botts is the guy or not, I do not any GM rooting for our guys to fall on their face. Is it a great deal? No. Is Jack the guy? Jury is still out. But if he is not in the long term plan after this year, which I do not remotely believe, the contract is movable. JMHO.

 

[Aladyyn]

I just find it incredibly lame that no matter what the thread is actually supposed to be about, the discussion always makes its way back to only 3 things:

1. Is Jack overpaid?
2. Reinhardt vs Eichel
3. The ROR trade

Of course, in this thread Eichel contract discussion is perfectly on topic, but as a broader point, do we really have that short a collective attention span?

Oh so we're not supposed to talk about
1. Our franchise player and the implications of his contract
2. The 2 most important known commodities on the team
3. The team's biggest loss since 2007

Sorry but I'd rather talk about those things than gush about how our bottom 6 is improved by bringing in some washed up vets.

 

[Montag DP]

Oh so we're not supposed to talk about
1. Our franchise player and the implications of his contract
2. The 2 most important known commodities on the team
3. The team's biggest loss since 2007

Sorry but I'd rather talk about those things than gush about how our bottom 6 is improved by bringing in some washed up vets.

Nope, that's not what I said. Try again.

 

[haseoke39]

It hasn't hurt us now because we aren't in a cap crunch.

Aren't we? We have to clear cap in order to sign Sam and leave room for rookie bonuses.

 

[joshjull]

Aren't we? We have to clear cap in order to sign Sam and leave room for rookie bonuses.

Poorly worded but I was trying to convey how contracts like Moulson's are killers. Since we haven't been near the cap the last few years it hasn't mattered but going forward they will be. As for fitting in Sam's new deal and the bonuses we should be fine.

 

[haseoke39]

As for fitting in Sam's new deal and the bonuses we should be fine.

... If we find a way to clear cap. Might need to be around 3M and won't happen naturally.

 

[sabrebuild]

Again, I'm not exactly sure what the expectations for Botterill were. "Just sign him for $8M" is easier said than done. There's no magic wand. The only option would have been to just not sign him until he gave in, which is a really bad relationship to start off with, or trade him which would have been outrageous. Eichel had the bargaining power.

There’s no reason to trade him or think it’s an option in the summer before his last year of his elc.

There was also no requirement to make that deal so early. If his feelings were so hurt that you didn’t agree to whatever he wanted, you have a pretty low opinion of Eichel’s maturity.

He had no special bargaining power. He was an rfa, with a year left on his elc, who had not yet provided a ppg season or any league awards.

If the premise is that Eichel had shown the potential to be a McDavid level player, I just don’t see any factual basis to support that idea.

 

[haseoke39]

If Jack didn't move off $10M last summer, Botterill should have waited. He certainly didn't improve his value last season. I think his side would have been very likely to lower their demand. He would not get a $10M offersheet if he were on the market, either.

Toronto's doing it with Matthews right now. It's not controversial. It's not going to lead to the player leaving.

Good relations between player and franchise are based a bunch of different factors. After they fired the coach he disliked and traded his competition for captain and traded for new wingers for him, I think they've done more than enough to maintain good relations. Making reasonable offers in contract negotiations and sticking to them is not grounds for a reasonable player to become disaffected and demand a trade or something.