Player Discussion Jack Eichel – Part 3

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old kummelweck

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I'm curious whether they are apart on dollar amount based on what Eichel has done, or what he thinks he can do or says he will be worth? Is there disagreement around the 'new market' Botterill described after the McDavid contract?
 

Jim Bob

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I'm curious whether they are apart on dollar amount based on what Eichel has done, or what he thinks he can do or says he will be worth? Is there disagreement around the 'new market' Botterill described after the McDavid contract?

My guess is that both of the Oilers deals this summer have increased Eichel's asking price and it wouldn't surprise me if Botterill isn't exactly excited about the idea of 8 years and in the neighborhood of $80M.
 

old kummelweck

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My guess is that both of the Oilers deals this summer have increased Eichel's asking price and it wouldn't surprise me if Botterill isn't exactly excited about the idea of 8 years and in the neighborhood of $80M.

It'll cost more later.
 

hizzoner

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Interesting discussion. I think Eichel is a star. I think when he puts his mind to it he is outstanding. I never see Crosby or McDavid taking a shift off. I do not see them lallygagging back on D or skating slowly to the bench on shift change. I do see those things happening with Jack from time to time. Was it coaching? Was it having the life sucked out of him from what was happening around him? Is he unable to perform at the highest level as consistently as other elite talent? Answer those questions or reject my premises--either way that determines whether waiting to sign him is good for Jack or Sabres....
 

SackTastic

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Maybe, maybe not.

People seem to think that player development is linear progression and that is simply not the case.

If Eichel is outside the top 10 in PPG again, I don't see the price going up.

Player progression isn't linear, no. But the contract AAVs pretty much are. :)
 

Dreakon13

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Interesting discussion. I think Eichel is a star. I think when he puts his mind to it he is outstanding. I never see Crosby or McDavid taking a shift off. I do not see them lallygagging back on D or skating slowly to the bench on shift change. I do see those things happening with Jack from time to time. Was it coaching? Was it having the life sucked out of him from what was happening around him? Is he unable to perform at the highest level as consistently as other elite talent? Answer those questions or reject my premises--either way that determines whether waiting to sign him is good for Jack or Sabres....
I'm torn on this.

On the one hand, I do believe Jack is a bit less mature than other young elite talents in the league. He pouts, occasionally appears lackadaisical on the ice, comes across as unprofessional at times to the media. Wears his frustrations on his sleeve.

On the other hand, of players like McDavid and Matthews, he came into easily the worst situation. Completely incompetent coaching and almost no secondary scoring these last two years. Reinhart only recently started coming into his own, O'Reilly/Kane/Okposo were supposed to be the guys to ease his load the first few years and for whatever reason (coaching, injury, personal frustrations, etc) they couldn't step up consistently. If Eichel wasn't on his game any given night, the team sunk with him.

That's exactly what we were trying to avoid by bringing in so much established top 6 forward talent... but it all kinda fell onto Eichel anyways. I think in a better environment and a better mindset, like what this year will hopefully start with... we'll see the dominant Eichel more nights than not. I hope.
 

Tatanka

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If I'm the VGK and a a RFA of Eichel's caliber beomes available I tender him McDavid money offer sheet and move forward. Similar to the Sabres landing Perreault on the luck of the wheel. He is a draw and with all the ELC players the cap hit is nothing. Plus tbey have stockpiled picks so giving up their firsts wont hurt.
 

Der Jaeger

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If I'm the VGK and a a RFA of Eichel's caliber beomes available I tender him McDavid money offer sheet and move forward. Similar to the Sabres landing Perreault on the luck of the wheel. He is a draw and with all the ELC players the cap hit is nothing. Plus tbey have stockpiled picks so giving up their firsts wont hurt.

Sabres would match. And they should. It's not the same as the Vanek situation. Vanek was a LW who did not play a 200 foot game. Nor was a the type of player to build a franchise around. Eichel is a franchise center. You don't let those players go. Ever.
 

Tatanka

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Sabres would match. And they should. It's not the same as the Vanek situation. Vanek was a LW who did not play a 200 foot game. Nor was a the type of player to build a franchise around. Eichel is a franchise center. You don't let those players go. Ever.
I don't disagree, but the argument of whether he is "worth" it disappears. The market dictates that he is and now the cap hit is 12.5 not the 10-11 that most are unwilling to pay today.
 

AustonsNostrils

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Sabres would match. And they should. It's not the same as the Vanek situation. Vanek was a LW who did not play a 200 foot game. Nor was a the type of player to build a franchise around. Eichel is a franchise center. You don't let those players go. Ever.

This is another reason ******* around with him now exposes us to great risk - he could get offer sheeted as much or more than McDavid's deal. He's absolutely worth the 4 first round picks he'd cost in compensation.
 

wunderpanda

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Yeah...time for a hf break, my goodness what a disgust full thing to try to digest. The thought process is unreal. You do NOT give EICHEL a darn bridge deal for 5.1...think think think think. I'm sure the organization is better in your mind if they did. So Salute!!...cheers.

I completely agree his idea of a bridge at 5.1 annually is hard to comprehend. You do realize the numbers were provided by the person quoted, I just divided the money by the suggested quoted term in the 3 scenarios provided.

"max term possible" is the new "directly behind the net"

Or the new intangibles, something vague and undefined. (or loosely defined because of contract limits)

Originally Posted by Jame
"max term possible" is the new "muffin"

Fixed this for you...

Both were said by Sabres GM's so it could be.
 
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Der Jaeger

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This is another reason ******* around with him now exposes us to great risk - he could get offer sheeted as much or more than McDavid's deal. He's absolutely worth the 4 first round picks he'd cost in compensation.

If Vancouver offered 4 1st for Eichel, would you take it?

I wouldn't.

He's a franchise center. Nobody trades those with much regularity. You only get them at the top of the draft with any regularity or predictability. No way 4 1sts is worth Eichel.
 

Jim Bob

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If Vancouver offered 4 1st for Eichel, would you take it?

I wouldn't.

He's a franchise center. Nobody trades those with much regularity. You only get them at the top of the draft with any regularity or predictability. No way 4 1sts is worth Eichel.

You missed his point. He was saying it would be worth it to Vegas to give up 4 1sts to get Eichel via OS.

Personally, I would be tempted by owning Vegas' 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022 1st rounders. Even with Eichel, they could still be really bad in 2018-19 and beyond. There is potential there to get multiple All-Stars in the deal.

That said, I would be surprised if it even gets to that.

I am more worried about Reinhart getting an OS at the high end of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd compensation level.
 

Meichel Kane

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If I'm the VGK and a a RFA of Eichel's caliber beomes available I tender him McDavid money offer sheet and move forward. Similar to the Sabres landing Perreault on the luck of the wheel. He is a draw and with all the ELC players the cap hit is nothing. Plus tbey have stockpiled picks so giving up their firsts wont hurt.

Vegas doing it would be interesting given that those 4 1sts are going to be high. With what we've seen Vegas do thus far, though, I doubt they'd blitz future assets to try to land one guy.
 

darcyRegier

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If the deal doesn't get done before the season begins, do you see Bottsy telling Jack to go out and show him he's worth the 10-11 aav and then sign the extension in December-January?

This could cost the Sabres more money on the contract if Jack goes out and has 40-45 points midway through the season though so that wouldn't be the smart move imo.

What's taking so long anyways?
 

Der Jaeger

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You missed his point. He was saying it would be worth it to Vegas to give up 4 1sts to get Eichel via OS.

Personally, I would be tempted by owning Vegas' 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022 1st rounders. Even with Eichel, they could still be really bad in 2018-19 and beyond. There is potential there to get multiple All-Stars in the deal.

That said, I would be surprised if it even gets to that.

I am more worried about Reinhart getting an OS at the high end of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd compensation level.

Got it. For Vegas, sure. I don't see them getting an Eichel-like talent in the next four drafts. And Vegas with a motivated Eichel could be good enough to ensure that the Sabres wouldn't get a top pick anyway.

That's why I don't think GMBOT let's the situation get that far.

I think Reinhart will be signed prior to the RFA/UFA period if he plays well this season.
 

AustonsNostrils

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If Vancouver offered 4 1st for Eichel, would you take it?

I wouldn't.

He's a franchise center. Nobody trades those with much regularity. You only get them at the top of the draft with any regularity or predictability. No way 4 1sts is worth Eichel.

that was my point, Eichel's worth more than 4 first round picks and that makes it more likely he would get offer sheeted. McDavid's been signed, I guarantee you the Leafs will extend Mathews next summer - Eichel needs to be signed now.
 

AustonsNostrils

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You missed his point. He was saying it would be worth it to Vegas to give up 4 1sts to get Eichel via OS.

Personally, I would be tempted by owning Vegas' 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022 1st rounders. Even with Eichel, they could still be really bad in 2018-19 and beyond. There is potential there to get multiple All-Stars in the deal.

That said, I would be surprised if it even gets to that.

I am more worried about Reinhart getting an OS at the high end of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd compensation level.

That's nuts, how long do you want this rebuild to last? And then there's that the lottery is now a bigger crapshoot - Vegas could finish last or 2nd/3rd to last 4 straight years and you may not even get one 1st or 2nd overall pick out of the bunch.
 

AustonsNostrils

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There's a thread on the trade forum about a Boston trade for Eichel where somebody proposed Pastrnak, McAvoy, Carlo, Krug, Forsbacka-Karlsson and a first for Eichel. We couldn't keep those players for long, or we'd be trading some of our own players away. But anyway I made a Sabres lineup with Pastrnak, McAvoy and Carlo added and Eichel deleted and decided I wouldn't make that trade. If we want to add a promising young dman then Reinhart and/or Nylander would be the players in play for us.
 

SackTastic

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Are we seriously talking about offer sheets now? That can't happen until July 1 NEXT YEAR?

Go outside, folks.
 

joshjull

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It'll be hilarious if the Sabres hold out to pay him what he's actually earned, he underperforms, and fans blame it on the contract being a distraction.

It would be great if some posters understood that Eichel' deal, just like McDavid's and Draisatl's, is based largely on potential and that they will be going forward. They are not based on a player "earning" them with just their play to date as the basis for them.
 

Montag DP

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It would be great if some posters understood that Eichel' deal, just like McDavid's and Draisatl's, is based largely on potential and that they will be going forward. They are not based on a player "earning" them with just their play to date as the basis for them.
However, the higher the ask by Eichel's side, the higher the risk he does not end up making a large contact worthwhile. Therefore, the more inclined Botterill would be to gather more data (watch Eichel play another season or partial season) to mitigate that risk. So there is definitely an element of "earning it" in that the player has to give the GM confidence that he will be worth the contract.

In other words, a player's potential is still based on what he has already accomplished.
 
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