Tribute Jack Campbell Discussion

[Beaumaris]

How do you think he gets the kind of $ that is less than even average starting goalies get, when he’s been the 2nd best goalie this year?

View attachment 499127

I did say he is having a very good year.It’s just I’m expecting him to
nose dive.I truly hope I’m wrong,but I can see another Freddy
on the horizon.

 

[hotpaws]

That's exactly what you said. Your first comment was that "i guess some of us aren't are confident in Mzarek/Woll/Hutch as you are". I then explained that we wouldn't be going into the season making zero goaltending moves if Campbell decided to leave, and your response was to claim that we didn't have the cap space to do "something else" other than the Mrazek/Woll/Hutch combo, which is wrong.

Oh, quite a few are. You'd think they would have learned by now.

learned what by now ? you keep acting like we've been winning cups instead of getting knocked out in the first rd year after year

and my point wasn't we wouldn't make a goaltending move in the summer but that if we don't have the cap to sign Soup where do we find a replacement for cheaper ? but you don't give a damn right now since your not interested in the team but only to try to spin losing Soup as a positive and that he's easily replaceable

 

[4thline]

You're making an assumption here that I'm not sure is valid - maybe Dubas didn't view Campbell more highly because he had the same view some other seem to have - small sample size etc.?

Mid term also covers a broad range - maybe Dubas was only willing to offer 3 years and Campbell held out for 4?

All we can be reasonably sure of as of today, is that we were unwilling to meet his demands whatever they were (assuming he was willing to sign at all, I think that's a safe assumption) in the summer, and now we wish had given him what he was asking for.

All the noise pointed to a Campbell led tandem. That strongly implies he was seen as >=Mrazek, otherwise it would have been a Mrazek lead tandem. In any case, pointing to the lack of a ~3.8 million dollar deal as if it's something the team turned down is nonsense.

And I've shown you the math to why a savvy agent would turn it down and have far higher expectations based on the market and expected value than many here are giving credit. When you've made 6m, turning down 12-16 for a shot at 25-30 where the only real downside is your career ending is not a big a leap, and is the mathematically prudent course

 

[NinjaKick]

What I meant was if his value goes down it means he's had a poor playoffs. Will they want to commit to that?

and what happens if Campbell plays well in the playoffs and hits free agency? we'll lose him to a team on a deal we couldn't afford to match.
gotta get him signed asap

 

[keonsbitterness]

I would imagine many Leaf fans who believe Campbell is the real deal would want the Leafs to pay him and play him as the starter and prefer Leafs figure out how to dump Mrazek for cheap and use most if not all of the recaptured money towards Campbell's next deal.

What would you want?

 

[Dekes For Days]

learned what by now?

Learned how silly these panicked predictions of our imminent demise are, every time somebody might leave our team.

and my point wasn't we wouldn't make a goaltending move in the summer but that if we don't have the cap to sign Soup where do we find a replacement for cheaper?

Sure sounded like you were talking about not making a goaltending move in the summer when you talked about going into the season with Mrazek/Woll/Hutch, and when you pushed back on my suggestion that we'd be making other moves, by falsely suggesting that we didn't have the cap space for "something else".

We'll have cap space to put towards goaltending, and while the Leafs may not want to pay what Campbell is looking for if he decides to chase the money (still a big if at this point), there are always quality goaltenders out there that can perform well behind a quality defense. We're still pretty far out from that decision.

your not interested in the team but only to try to spin losing Soup as a positive and that he's easily replaceable

I haven't said anything close to either of these things. Please stop lying about me.

 

[ACC1224]

and what happens if Campbell plays well in the playoffs and hits free agency? we'll lose him to a team on a deal we couldn't afford to match.
gotta get him signed asap

There in a bad spot with him now regardless. If he plays well at least we may see a series win, look at the bright side I guess.

What's a deal you feel they couldn't match? Even if he wins the Conn Smythe I can't see anyone giving him large money over a bunch of years.

 

[The Podium]

Poor is a relative term so I don't see how anyone can answer this question.



Not me. If we had no other option then you never know, he could do a good job but I wouldn't want to bet on it.



We never know for certain what goes on behind the scenes but it seems like a safe assumption. A guy who's never been paid a lot being offered a contract that sets him up for life, I think it seems like 99% yes he would be willing to sign. But if you can think of a reason that he would be unwilling to sign at all, I'd love to hear it.

As far as reasonable price goes, sure that's always an issue. But if he was deemed to be someone who will not sign for a reasonable price, maybe they should have decided at that point to go in another direction. If he's not reasonable today, why would he be reasonable tomorrow especially then tomorrow he has much more leverage? Who knows what happened but I sure hope Dubas wasn't trying to nickel and dime him, I would have been willing to overpay him to keep him myself, not "infinitely" overpay to borrow your term but overpay him somewhat, sure.

Based on draft pedigree and previous performance he would get backup, or even 1B, money regardless of how he performed this season. Since this deal is likely the last chance to cash in, it was smart to gamble on himself rather than take the first deal offer ended. Basically, outside of a career ending injury, going into the season unsigned was low risk high reward.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We never know for certain what goes on behind the scenes but it seems like a safe assumption.

You're correct that we'll never know for certain what goes on behind the scenes, but that doesn't seem to stop people from making bad assumptions in order to blame Dubas. The safe assumption is that Dubas offered Campbell a reasonable deal, and Campbell looked at the risk/reward ratio and opted to bet on himself in a good situation. Nobody is to blame for that.

As far as reasonable price goes, sure that's always an issue. But if he was deemed to be someone who will not sign for a reasonable price, maybe they should have decided at that point to go in another direction.

Campbell's value to the team this year was high, regardless of what the future holds.

 

[hotpaws]

Learned how silly these panicked predictions of our imminent demise are, every time somebody might leave our team.

Sure sounded like you were talking about not making a goaltending move in the summer when you talked about going into the season with Mrazek/Woll/Hutch, and when you pushed back on my suggestion that we'd be making other moves, by falsely suggesting that we didn't have the cap space for "something else".

We'll have cap space to put towards goaltending, and while the Leafs may not want to pay what Campbell is looking for if he decides to chase the money (still a big if at this point), there are always quality goaltenders out there that can perform well behind a quality defense. We're still pretty far out from that decision.

I haven't said anything close to either of these things. Please stop lying about me.

imminent demise , lol , you just can't help yourself , most people want to progress the team towards a cup , i have no idea what the f*** you want
where do you all this magical cap space we'll have this summer?

right now we have about 9.5m with only 14 players signed , i'm guessing you believe we'll easily be able to dump Ritchie/Mzarek , lol

we also need to sign Soup/Mik/Kase/Sandin/Lily and while i don't see the last 4 breaking the bank i do see them getting about 6m combined which would leave us only a little over 3m to sign Campbell or another goalie and another player to get to a 20 man roster

so please inform us who this cheap goalie is who'll replace Campbell since you keep suggesting his out there

 

[Nylanderthal]

Wait, you were the guy talking about other people who don’t follow the rest of the league, right?

Why did Detroit discard him for a mid round pick (maybe 2) several years ago despite solid stats and at an age where he’d be coming into his prime?

Why did Carolina trade Ned to Detroit after a Calder nomination season? Teams make moves that are in line with their team timeline. Mrazek was an upcoming FA they sent him to philly for a 3 & 4th that could’ve been a 2 & 3rd based on performance. At the time detroit was 7 points back of a playoff spot and going to miss.
I’m not entirely sure what the point is you were trying to make?

 

[NinjaKick]

There in a bad spot with him now regardless. If he plays well at least we may see a series win, look at the bright side I guess.

What's a deal you feel they couldn't match? Even if he wins the Conn Smythe I can't see anyone giving him large money over a bunch of years.

lets say Campbell continues to play well and has a strong performance in the playoffs...
I look at a team like NJ... they have a crazy amount of cap space and a desperate need for a starting goalie. Subban's $9M comes off the books.. maybe they throw some of that at Campbell.
can we match that? I think we can afford a fair contract for Soup but not the overpayment that it would take to get him in free agency.
just my 2 cents.

 

[Nylanderthal]

imminent demise , lol , you just can't help yourself , most people want to progress the team towards a cup , i have no idea what the f*** you want
where do you all this magical cap space we'll have this summer?

right now we have about 9.5m with only 14 players signed , i'm guessing you believe we'll easily be able to dump Ritchie/Mzarek , lol

we also need to sign Soup/Mik/Kase/Sandin/Lily and while i don't see the last 4 breaking the bank i do see them getting about 6m combined which would leave us only a little over 3m to sign Campbell or another goalie and another player to get to a 20 man roster

so please inform us who this cheap goalie is who'll replace Campbell since you keep suggesting his out there

Haven’t noticed you around since the team is doing well, I guess hiding in the thread for the supposed struggling goalie is as good a place for you to hide.

 

[keonsbitterness]

What's a deal you feel they couldn't match? Even if he wins the Conn Smythe I can't see anyone giving him large money over a bunch of years.

Binnington was an RFA but he got two yrs @ $4.4 after winning a Cup. Something in the fives seems doable to get Campbell re-signed.

 

[hotpaws]

Haven’t noticed you around since the team is doing well, I guess hiding in the thread for the supposed struggling goalie is as good a place for you to hide.

sorry you missed me but i was busy with work and my father in law passed away the end of Dec

sorry for putting life ahead of this hockey board , i'll try to keep my priorities straight next time

 

[NinjaKick]

Binnington was an RFA but he got two yrs @ $4.4 after winning a Cup. Something in the fives seems doable to get Campbell re-signed.

if we can get him signed around the 5ish number... we gotta get that done asap

 

[Dekes For Days]

most people want to progress the team towards a cup , i have no idea what the f*** you want

I want to see this team win a cup.

where do you all this magical cap space we'll have this summer?

While we may not have piles of cap space this summer, we do have cap space to allocate, and we have a bunch of various options to create more if necessary. We've effectively maneuvered much bigger cap squeezes than this, and we're quite a ways away from those decisions.

 

[hotpaws]

I want to see this team win a cup.

While we may not have piles of cap space this summer, we do have cap space to allocate, and we have a bunch of various options to create more if necessary. We've effectively maneuvered much bigger cap squeezes than this, and we're quite a ways away from those decisions.

considering how you keep believing we've had successful seasons even though we've got knocked out in the first rd it doesn't seem that way

every team has various ways to create more cap space , unfortunately our ways are a choice between paying to dump players or move players we'd much rather keep

 

[ACC1224]

lets say Campbell continues to play well and has a strong performance in the playoffs...
I look at a team like NJ... they have a crazy amount of cap space and a desperate need for a starting goalie. Subban's $9M comes off the books.. maybe they throw some of that at Campbell.
can we match that? I think we can afford a fair contract for Soup but not the overpayment that it would take to get him in free agency.
just my 2 cents.

Understood. If he does play well and leads them to a few round wins Dubas will be lynched if he lets him walk.

Very tricky spot Dubas has put them in.

 

[Dekes For Days]

considering how you keep believing we've had successful seasons even though we've got knocked out in the first rd it doesn't seem that way

Just because somebody considers more than just contextless end playoff outcomes in their discussions about teams, that doesn't mean that they don't want to see their team win.

unfortunately our ways are a choice between paying to dump players or move players we'd much rather keep

That's simply not true at all.

 

[ACC1224]

Binnington was an RFA but he got two yrs @ $4.4 after winning a Cup. Something in the fives seems doable to get Campbell re-signed.

5 would be fine, he'll want a bunch of years as well.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

and what happens if Campbell plays well in the playoffs and hits free agency? we'll lose him to a team on a deal we couldn't afford to match.
gotta get him signed asap

If he plays full season and does well and then gets us over hump and we win a playoff round or two then pay da man his $$$ .. we can always off load a couple guys .. you always keep a great tender before anyone else on a team .. if we don't make it past round 1 then Dubie/(Shanny maybe) will be fired and Mitch will get traded by new GM and then we can afford him .. signing him LT now makes little sense to me .. it only leads to an overpay

 

[Nylanderthal]

sorry you missed me but i was busy with work and my father in law passed away the end of Dec

sorry for putting life ahead of this hockey board , i'll try to keep my priorities straight next time

I don’t think too many have necessarily missed you, well not me at least. Sorry for your family’s loss. Holidays are tough for us too because of similar circumstances. Just found it funny the time you do have is to poopoo on something as opposed to maybe finding some good in the world. I mean the teams only top 5 overall right now.

 

[Nylanderthal]

considering how you keep believing we've had successful seasons even though we've got knocked out in the first rd it doesn't seem that way

every team has various ways to create more cap space , unfortunately our ways are a choice between paying to dump players or move players we'd much rather keep

None of Mrazek Holl Dermott or Kerfoot would require any retention or sweeteners and all would bring back draft capital in the summer. Ritchie might require a sweetener or he can be ballast for an upgrade. There’s no cap issue in the summer.

 

[hotpaws]

Just because somebody considers more than just contextless end playoff outcomes in their discussions about teams, that doesn't mean that they don't want to see their team win.

That's simply not true at all.

considering it's been 5 straight 1st rd exists with you praising the team after each season it's pretty safe to say you couldn't give a damn how this team performs

so if it's not true enlighten us on who these expendable players who we don't have to pay to trade are