Friedman: J Schmaltz possibly available

[Rzombo4 prez]

It sounds petty, but we can't give up our 2018 2nd. We can't be waiting until the 3rd round to select. Tatar doesn't interest me, as an undersized LHS LW with 3 more years of term. Nyquist would be an excellent addition, however. Would you accept Schmaltz and a 2018 3rd, or a 2019 2nd for Nyquist? Perhaps another minor prospect?

You need to decide if the Blues are in win-now mode or not. Part of being in win-now mode is selecting later in the draft.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Pens are doing quite well without sound asset management.
2014 - No 2, 3
2015 - No 1, 3, 4
2016 - No 1, 7 (but two 2nds)
2017 - No 1, 4

It's rare that teams trade away both 1st and 2nd in a draft, but it happens and some team willing to risk may get rewarded with cups... And the Pens of that time had nowhere near the quality of prospects St Louis does now.

You can't really compare us to PITT in any way shape or form. Our core was not founded on having multiple 1st overall picks. We do not have Crosby, Malkin and Fleury (of the past) to build from.

I do generally believe that we can afford to not pick until 3rd round but with how well Bill Armstrong does with drafting given draft position I'm more than happy to keep all draft picks.

 

[BleedBlue14]

You need to decide if the Blues are in win-now mode or not. Part of being in win-now mode is selecting later in the draft.

We were in win now mode for like the last 5+ years. We underwent a bit of a retool and now I'd say we are a year or two out of being serious serious contenders. We haven't really selected before the 20th pick since Schwartz/Tarasenko unless I'm missing someone.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I think he'll either get traded at the deadline for a rental or at the draft for a similar-aged prospect that's struggling to crack their NHL squad. If he's on the team come October, I can't see him fetching much more than 2nd/3rd. Teams know that he'll be sent down through waivers because St. Louis doesn't have any other option unless they want to carry 8 defensemen.

I think there's a pretty good chance Gunnarsson isn't with the team next year. They're already having to dress 7 defensemen just to get him into games. He seems likely to be moved either as part of a trade (as salary going back the other way to facilitate the deal), or in the offseason to clear some room. He simply makes too much to be a 7th guy that you have to bend over backwards for to get playing time.

It's possible the trade Schmaltz anyway, but I don't think the Blues will ever find themselves in the position where they're forced to choose between exposing Schmaltz to waivers or carrying 8 defensemen.

 

[67Blues]

Ryan Hartman it is then.

It would be fun to reunite the brothers, but yeah, not happening.

You would be hard pressed to get a bag of used sock tape from STL going to Chicago let alone a player
When was the last time a trade was made between those team? I can't recall anything significant.

 

[ffh]

who.

 

[Stealth JD]

Both Barbashev and Schmaltz could be a fit in Buffalo if a forward was coming back. Can't imagine Kane has that much value as a rental, but someone with term like ROR may be good in the off-season, if the Blues can't get into the Tavares negotiations.

 

[The Note in MI]

I think we should keep Schmaltz what happens when we lose a RHD to injury over the next 5 seasons. We don’t have an NHL capable RHD prospect currently aside from Schmaltz. Unless Sergeev or Vanelli suddenly turn into NHLers against all odds

 

[67Blues]

The issue the Blues have is half of our defense has contracts expiring after next season. Why not keep Schmaltz, and when Bortuzzo, Gunner, and JBo's contracts are up, pursue a tough LD to replace them and also bring up Walman? Gunner and JBo are both Charmin soft, so that is a lateral move with Schmaltz (who is more physical than either of those two) and Walman. I can't remember but doesn't David Noel play with a bit of grit?

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

You can't really compare us to PITT in any way shape or form. Our core was not founded on having multiple 1st overall picks. We do not have Crosby, Malkin and Fleury (of the past) to build from.

I do generally believe that we can afford to not pick until 3rd round but with how well Bill Armstrong does with drafting given draft position I'm more than happy to keep all draft picks.

They gave up a lot of futures to get Kessel, which turned out to be what put them over the top. Doubt they win the cups without Kessel and fair play to Pittsburgj makong that bold move. Dont think St Louis should care that much what draft picks they lose when they should be going all in with a gteat mens roster and pretty good prospect pool. A couple of draft picks wont make a massive difference in their future.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Blues fans need to explain why some have his value so high. 9 games at the age of 24? You can only use he was a first rounder for so long

 

[Alklha]

Blues fans need to explain why some have his value so high. 9 games at the age of 24? You can only use he was a first rounder for so long

He doesn't have high value, but we have no reason to move him for what he'd realistically return in trade.

Gunnarsson is the 7th defenseman, and he has a cap hit of $2.9m. It's unlikely that a cap team is going to continue that situation into next season. So why would we move a defenseman who is NHL ready for a third?

You need to decide if the Blues are in win-now mode or not. Part of being in win-now mode is selecting later in the draft.

Why can't you wait until 3rd round? You are in win now mode and have decent prospects in the pipe.

Blues fans certainly aren't pushing the narrative that the team is in "win now mode", quite the opposite. Our GM has also said we aren't in the same place to compete as we have in the past.

Next year we'll hopefully be in a far stronger position.

 

[BleedBlue14]

They gave up a lot of futures to get Kessel, which turned out to be what put them over the top. Doubt they win the cups without Kessel and fair play to Pittsburgj makong that bold move. Dont think St Louis should care that much what draft picks they lose when they should be going all in with a gteat mens roster and pretty good prospect pool. A couple of draft picks wont make a massive difference in their future.

Right, the gist that I was getting at though is we don't have a Crosby/Malkin/Fluery/Letang core to add a Kessel too. We a good core but we could use upgrades at RW2 and 1C. We don't have the 2 franchise centers who can drive their own line and a franchise type of goalie. We need depth scoring a lot more than PITT. We need someone to drive a 3rd line or drive center for Tarasenko. While we can afford to tradedraft picks or prospects I don't see types we need being available for what we can spare. Our amateur scouting department has been incredibly good given our daraft positions as wel.

Sorry if my formatting and autocorrects make it hard to read my phone is really buggy.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Blues fans need to explain why some have his value so high. 9 games at the age of 24? You can only use he was a first rounder for so long

Before going down with an injury, and losing time to call-ups, he was leading the Rampage in points. He’s 6th for defensemen in the AHL in PPG, with only Devon Toews and Jacob MacDonald being the only players in the same age range ahead of him. Plus he’s a righty, which is hard to come by. Good draft pedigree, peers with similar production (Matheson and Skjei) have done good things in the NHL, and he’s been solid every league he’s played in so far. He’s just a victim of too few roster spots on the Blues right now. But he’s a very solid player, he’s in control in all 3 zones, and he is great on the PP. He can move the puck, he can carry it, he can shoot it. We don’t really have any huge reason to move him, unless doing so helps us in another area of need, hence the Virtanen and Kapanen talk (and both of those teams could use a bump on the right side too). So, yeah he’s a former first rounder, but his value isn’t because of that

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Right, the gist that I was getting at though is we don't have a Crosby/Malkin/Fluery/Letang core to add a Kessel too. We a good core but we could use upgrades at RW2 and 1C. We don't have the 2 franchise centers who can drive their own line and a franchise type of goalie. We need depth scoring a lot more than PITT. We need someone to drive a 3rd line or drive center for Tarasenko. While we can afford to tradedraft picks or prospects I don't see types we need being available for what we can spare. Our amateur scouting department has been incredibly good given our daraft positions as wel.

Sorry if my formatting and autocorrects make it hard to read my phone is really buggy.

Isnt Nyqvist the depth scoring we are talking about? I dont see how giving up a pick for Nyqvist causes an issue for St Lous. He can be used for a couple of cup runs. I think it makes sense as a trade for St Louis even if it means they cant puck top2 rounds this year amd lose a prospect that doesnt have a place on the team anyway.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Before going down with an injury, and losing time to call-ups, he was leading the Rampage in points. He’s 6th for defensemen in the AHL in PPG, with only Devon Toews and Jacob MacDonald being the only players in the same age range ahead of him. Plus he’s a righty, which is hard to come by. Good draft pedigree, peers with similar production (Matheson and Skjei) have done good things in the NHL, and he’s been solid every league he’s played in so far. He’s just a victim of too few roster spots on the Blues right now. But he’s a very solid player, he’s in control in all 3 zones, and he is great on the PP. He can move the puck, he can carry it, he can shoot it. We don’t really have any huge reason to move him, unless doing so helps us in another area of need, hence the Virtanen and Kapanen talk (and both of those teams could use a bump on the right side too). So, yeah he’s a former first rounder, but his value isn’t because of that

Whenever I read heavy use of AHL STATS I tend to zone out. History proves good in the ahl does mean good in the NHL. Considering the ask from some it is like he is NHL all star already.

I keep hearing the old trooper song 3 dressed up as a 9 when reading this thread

 

[BleedBlue14]

Isnt Nyqvist the depth scoring we are talking about? I dont see how giving up a pick for Nyqvist causes an issue for St Lous. He can be used for a couple of cup runs. I think it makes sense as a trade for St Louis even if it means they cant puck top2 rounds this year amd lose a prospect that doesnt have a place on the team anyway.

Sorry I may have been confused about what the ask was. I am on board for a Schmaltz + Gunnar + pick for a Nyquist type. Would generally like to get some retention on that but I'm not so sure as to whether Detroit would do that without a first coming back.

I think the confusion came from this not being a Thomas + Kyrou + 1st for you know who thread.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Ideally, I’d like to keep Schmaltz as he’s really the only RD prospect in the Blues system with a legit chance of having an NHL career. But if he’s going to continue to be blocked and he’s not in the immediate plans, he becomes waiver eligible at the beginning of next season so it may be time to cut bait.

The problem is that we can all say he COULD be in the NHL right now but in reality, he hasn’t proven himself to be a legit NHL d-man yet, circumstances be damned. And that hurts his trade value as there’s still a definite question mark lingering over his head.

I’d say he’s worth about a 2nd rounder. And unless the Blues plan is for him to be in the group of 7 next season (or they’re planning on trading one of the current 7 yet this season) then I’d trade him.

 

[PAZ]

I think there's a pretty good chance Gunnarsson isn't with the team next year. They're already having to dress 7 defensemen just to get him into games. He seems likely to be moved either as part of a trade (as salary going back the other way to facilitate the deal), or in the offseason to clear some room. He simply makes too much to be a 7th guy that you have to bend over backwards for to get playing time.

It's possible the trade Schmaltz anyway, but I don't think the Blues will ever find themselves in the position where they're forced to choose between exposing Schmaltz to waivers or carrying 8 defensemen.

Ah, I forgot about Gunnarsson.

Just curious, is it purely a number games with Schmaltz or is it a mix between that and not gaining Yeo's trust? I know for the Avs Bigras had a bit of trouble transitioning to the NHL and didn't warrant enough for Bednar to trust him.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Sorry I may have been confused about what the ask was. I am on board for a Schmaltz + Gunnar + pick for a Nyquist type. Would generally like to get some retention on that but I'm not so sure as to whether Detroit would do that without a first coming back.

I think the confusion came from this not being a Thomas + Kyrou + 1st for you know who thread.

The pick discussion started based on someone proposing this:
"Nyquist or Tatar for Schmaltz + 2nd?"
As a neutral I think this makes sense for both teams.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Ah, I forgot about Gunnarsson.

Just curious, is it purely a number games with Schmaltz or is it a mix between that and not gaining Yeo's trust? I know for the Avs Bigras had a bit of trouble transitioning to the NHL and didn't warrant enough for Bednar to trust him.

Take this with a grain of salt, Easton is a much more reliable source when it comes to this. Schmaltz last year looked a bit timid when he got a chance. This year he's looked more composed. It's a numbers in a sense of how good Vince Dunn has been. If Dunn had not emerged on the left side where we are notably weaker then on the right the 3rd pairing would probably be Gunnar - Schmaltz. Once Dunn can play with Parayko and handle those minutes I don't see any reason why Schmaltz can't play with JBouw on the 3rd pairing and the Bort is the 7th guy.

Bort is currently higher on the depth chart due to his physicality and being good with Dunn in that 3rd pairing role if that makes sense. Again Easton is more qualified than I am so if he says something completely different take his vision with more credibility than mine.

 

[THall4]

Is St. Louis interested in Maroon? I think the Oilers could be interested in Schmaltz if Maroon is a target for the Blues. We only have 2 NHL RD at the moment so it could be a fit.

Probably already been said but I doubt the Blues move Schmaltz for Maroon.

But I wonder what the want would be from the Oilers. I mean currently..he cant be any worse than Benning.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Probably already been said but I doubt the Blues move Schmaltz for Maroon.

But I wonder what the want would be from the Oilers. I mean currently..he cant be any worse than Benning.

Benning's biggest issue is that he is being played over his head because we don't have any other options. The only problem with bringing Schmaltz in is that it would essentially pencil Benning in as our #2RD unless Schmaltz takes that spot from him. I liked Benning last season when he was on the bottom pair. He was steady, yet unspectacular. This year, he is being expected to do too much and its costing him, and the team.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Whenever I read heavy use of AHL STATS I tend to zone out. History proves good in the ahl does mean good in the NHL. Considering the ask from some it is like he is NHL all star already.

I keep hearing the old trooper song 3 dressed up as a 9 when reading this thread

So we can’t use draft position, and we can’t cite his stellar play outside of the NHL, and we can’t cite having Pietrangelo, Parayko, and Shattenkirk in front of him, and we can’t cite that our coach prefers physicality in the bottom pairing and Gunnarsson isn’t being sent to the AHL to fit in Schmaltz. Yeah, other than his ability, circumstance, pedigree, and handedness, he’s terrible.

I’m sure GMs view him similarly.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Whenever I read heavy use of AHL STATS I tend to zone out. History proves good in the ahl does mean good in the NHL. Considering the ask from some it is like he is NHL all star already.

I keep hearing the old trooper song 3 dressed up as a 9 when reading this thread

Well, that’s your prerogative, but fwiw it was the other teams that offered those pieces for Schmaltz, it wasn’t Blues fans demanding crazy over-the-top things for him.