Georgetown Al*
Georgetown Al
- Oct 6, 2015
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News Article: It's time to cut the cord with Chris Thorburn & Anthony Peluso
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Georgetown Al*
Georgetown Al
- Oct 6, 2015
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Arthur Fonzarelli
"aaaaay"
So which forward deserves to watch the season from the press box?
1. Wheeler (29)*
2. Stafford (30)*
3. Little (28)*
4. Perrault (28)*
5. Matthias (28)*
6. Burmistrov (24)*
7. Tanev (24)
8. Scheifele (23)*
9. Armia (23)*
10. Lowry (23)*
11. Lipon (23)*
12. Dano (21)
13. Petan (21)
14. Ehlers (20)
15. Lemieux (20)
16. De Leo (20)
17. Connor (19)
18. Laine (18)
[*=waiver eligible)
No one will argue that there are far better options to make the team than Thorburn, but which 18-23 year old player will benefit from watching the Jets play from the pressbox?
For this reason alone Thorburn makes the Jets. No roster player is better suited for this role in 2016-2017.
Georgetown Al*
Georgetown Al
- Oct 6, 2015
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Georgetown Al*
Georgetown Al
- Oct 6, 2015
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Holden Caulfield
Eternal Skeptic
The thing is the 13th forward is likely playing 50-70 games. And the 14th likely 30-50. That's not "watching from the press box". Lots of regulars will play less just due to injuries and coaches decisions. This is a false narrative.
There's nothing at all wrong with this lineup
Ehlers - Scheifele - Wheeler
Connor - Little - Laine
Matthias - Perreault - Dano
Lowry - Burmistrov - Stafford
Copp - Armia
Copp and Armia would play at least 50 games probably more, IMO, from injuries and can rotate in and out with Matthias, Dano, Lowry, Burmistrov.
I agree with this point. I have no issue with Thor watching from the PB as its important for young players to play and develop.
I would also like to see Stuart stapled to the PB.
Well if there were injuries I would just as soon call up the young player from the Moose and play them ahead of Thor. Not that I expect Maurice to make those types of calls.
I feel that this is an important year for Moe. The talent is here and I feel the team will live or die by his roster decisions. Can he make the correct tough calls with his vets? He talked a big game at his year end press conference where he stated that the best players would play this coming season no matter their age etc... Now lets see if he actually follows through. I remain pretty skeptical myself.
Arthur Fonzarelli
"aaaaay"
You're correct in that a forward has yet to watch the greater part of a season from the press box, but it's certainly happened on defense with Paul Postma .This scenario is certainly within the realm of possibility particularly with the Moose closeby providing more options than simply the 13th (or 14th?) forward.
MardyBum
Registered User
If he's in the pressbox all year outside of emergency injuries on the road, i'm fine with it. I'd rather have Howden playing in the A trying to develop a game, and I don't want any of our young guys playing half a season and pressboxing the other half.
CaptainChef
Registered User
Everyone would be more than happy if that (Thorbs in the PB) was the case. But despite predictions that he will/should be there, most of us know that won't really be the case.
Arthur Fonzarelli
"aaaaay"
But if we do have him continuing to add to his franchise record totals of games played, who becomes the odd man out?
1) Ehlers / Scheifele / Wheeler
2) Laine / Little / Stafford
3) Burmistrov / Perrault / RW3
4) Matthias / C4 / Thorburn
RW3=Armia or Dano
C4=Lowry or Copp
One should assume that Armia & Lowry make the roster due to waiver eligibility, sending Copp & Dano to the Moose, but in this scenario at least 1 additional (maybe 2?) 19-23 year old player who make the roster lose valuable ice time they could have otherwise garnished on the Moose.
This decision won't be about whether Thorburn is good or bad at hockey. If the Jets are the draft & develop team they claim to be, there's no way Thorburn can see the ice with any regularity this season.
...unless a trade is coming.
voyageur
Hockey fanatic
- Jul 10, 2011
- 9,467
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Thorburn is not George's Laracque. He can skate with best. Not first stride but still a lot of power. He understands the system, his ability to backpressure is underated. Peluso was a plus 4th line player, Dano was a minus 3rd liner, so who perforned in their role? The writer makes subjective statements like fighting isn't needed anymore, but St. Louis used Reaves pretty effectively against us last year. Cody Mc Leod likes to goon it up, and take cheap shots. If fighting is out did Chicago sign Jordin Tootoo for goalscoring? Anaheim picked up Boll. L.A. still deploys scrappers. Calgary has them, Edmonton probably will too. It's just a wishful narrative. The NHL is still a mean place for hockey, even if they are no more pure goons. Thorburn has been good at momentum shifting checking shifts, and taking off goons (think of games we won where he took off Ballard, Boll). Can JC Lipon be equally effective? Possibly. I think with guys like Lowry and Lemieux we can be more effective, all around.
But I think this article panders to people who see hockey like a video game. Put the best player in and you win. But reality is that there is a part of the game that is played in the trenches. Look at the success the Islanders generated with a rather unskilled but tough as nails 4th line last year, and tell me that is not the case. If you want all skill maybe we should replace Maurice with Phil Housley. Personally I like the way we play. As much as Stuart was bad, I don't think we lost any more games because of Thorburn that we did because of Burmi, so accountability should be honest, not subjective to fit a voluntary narrative.
But I think this article panders to people who see hockey like a video game. Put the best player in and you win. But reality is that there is a part of the game that is played in the trenches. Look at the success the Islanders generated with a rather unskilled but tough as nails 4th line last year, and tell me that is not the case. If you want all skill maybe we should replace Maurice with Phil Housley. Personally I like the way we play. As much as Stuart was bad, I don't think we lost any more games because of Thorburn that we did because of Burmi, so accountability should be honest, not subjective to fit a voluntary narrative.
Would developing players on the Moose not be draft and develop? No reason players shouldn't develop their pro games in the AHL. Seems to have worked well for the Red Wings.
Jetsfan4life
Registered User
I'm with you on this topic.Most everyone does not like Thorburn or Peluso and that is why you see post like this.Bottom line is there will be fights in the NHL until they say no more fights or it's an instant penalty.The teams you mentioned did sign those players to have some muscle on there team.We need one of the two and if I was to pick I would pick Peluso.He is a legitimate enforcer in this league and every team should have at least one to keep the peace.
DudeWhereIsMakar
Bergevin sent me an offer sheet
I only want the three of them (Stuart, Thorburn, Peluso) playing at MTS Centre is if it's with the Moose.
Nothing wrong with that. I think Petan might push for some games. I have a hard time believing that Maurice won't keep either Thorbs or Peluso around for some muscle, based on his track record.
Take away Datsyuk and Zetterberg and the Wings are mediocre. I think their "model" is overblown. My own view is that there's a risk of wasting some good years of young players in the minors or behind vets. I don't mind another year of pushing young players into the line-up to accelerate the movement a bit. The Jets have plenty of leadership to mentor them.
MrBoJangelz71
Registered User
- Jan 14, 2014
- 4,965
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Why have Laine on the right?
Its been documented clearly he performs much better on the left, and Connor does well on the right.
Arthur Fonzarelli
"aaaaay"
Yes...of course it would...that's my point...it's in no one's best interest for Laine, Connor, Lemieux, Petan, Dano, Lipon, Armia, Lowry, Copp or Tanev's to be watching any more than a handful of games from upstairs.
That SHOULD be Thorburn's role at this point in his career. The projected bottom 6 & the extra 1 or 2 forwards are all in their very early 20's. If they aren't playing regularly, they should be playing for the Moose.
I certainly don't have the hate on for Thor that many do. I've found him adequate in a 4th line role & always understood the Jets lack of depth during injuries elevated him to a top 9 role where he was often out of place. Now that our forward depth is as strong as it is, I doubt we'll ever see him play anywhere other than RW4.
As for Peluso, there's no room for him on the Moose roster let alone the Jets.
1) Ehlers / Scheifele / Wheeler
2) Laine / Little / Stafford
3) Perrault / Burmistrov / Dano
4) Matthias / Lowry / Armia
1) Connor / Petan / Kosmochuk
2) Lemieux / De Leo / Lipon
3) Tanev / Copp / Lodge
4) Howden / Olson / Fronk
There's barely room for Blomquist. Pretty sure it's "Tulsa Time" for someone, particularly if Cormier returns to captain this squad.
voyageur
Hockey fanatic
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Ehhh. I like that lineup Fonz, top to bottom. I maybe replace Fronk with Blomqvist, for size. It's somewhat interesting that Copp finished the year as a serviceable, positive contributing 3rd line centre in the NHL, and finds himself in the same role on the Moose. Howden a 4th liner in the NHL also a 4th liner in the A. But I think there are assumptions being made. Do you think that Lipon who was a last cut last year, makes it through waivers? Just in our division teams like Minnesota and Chicago would likely pick him up with his low cap hit, and we lose a guy who will fill Thorburn's role, and kill penalties more effectively in the process , for nothing. Same for Peluso. Imagine him on the Hawks, 4th line limited minutes, crashing our crease. Who is going to stop him? He will do his job regardless of the uniform. Do you want Buff having to fight him to get him away from our net? That's not a good tradeoff.
I suspect that we are going to lose players off our current roster, either through trade or waivers. Peluso to Jersey would make sense, he'd be the Soprano there. leaving room for the versatile Lipon in the PB.
The way Thorburn is respected in the dressing room and by his coach I think he is safe, though in the role you underline. If Armia out plays Dano in camp, I think the latter is the guy that falls to the Moose, because Armia on the 3rd line, and Thorburn on the 4th, looks a bit more like a Maurice team, and perhaps our PB consists of Lipon and Howden, with the young players forming a stellar group of callups, battling with the likes of Lowry and Matthias to move up the roster.
I sure hope Cormier is gone for good. I yelled at him last year in one game to do something. He has no speed, which just makes him a plug. I think Strait is the C for the Moose, Kichton an A, and I'd give the other one to DeLeo.
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Holden Caulfield
Eternal Skeptic
Haha lets start at the top. Thorburn can skate with the best of them? That's patently false. By every single measure false. Funny thing is I have no problem with Thorburn as the 13/14th forward. Like you mention he understands his role and plays the safe game. But to say he is even an average skater is overstating it. And I think skating is the most overrated attribute out there.
Now let's move on to the really ridiculous claims. As has been said when you pull out the +/- that's when you've proved you really don't understand. +/- is a terrible stat that isn't even worth mentioning unless it is to prove ignorance. It is not repeatable, it is subject to massive bias and it is all around useless. If you try even the SLIGHTEST bit to understand why that had happened you would see. Dano was subject to the worst luck while Peluso was subject to some of the best. Dano was waaaaaay below the rest of the Jets. Does that mean that the winger on the line managed to be so bad that he completely screwed over the defense of the team? No not at all as can clearly be seen. His PDO was so much lower thanks to no finishing teammates and poor puck luck in the defensive zone. Wingers don't affect the defense that much.
Onto the enforcer angle. The thing is that the other team's enforcers can actually play the game of hockey or add another angle to the game. Peluso does neither. He is straight enforcer. He sucks at basically every aspect of hockey beside straight line skating (which as I mentioned above is VASTLY overrated). At least other enforcers add defensive awareness (ala Thorburn whereas Peluso is easily the worst defensive player in the league), or forechecking ability (whereas Peluso has the most brutal angles I've ever seen), or agitating (whereas Peluso is a straight honor code goon) or energy (whereas Peluso is too slow to the punch to add that energy). He does nothing well enough to stay in NHL beside fighting ability. And while willingness to fight is valuable (of which Jets have plenty) the ability to win fights matter NONE at all. And this is proven.
The "bias" should be towards players that help us win. Burmi did not help us win in the first half and you'd find even the most ardent advance stats supporters supporting that. But based on his historically numbers and his 2nd half numbers he did help us win. And Peluso in particular is always a minus player. He has ALWAYS hurt the team from the very moment he arrived in Winnipeg. He helps the team lose. Smart teams have jettisoned this anchors. We'll see if after 3 ****ing years of lessons if the Jets have learned their lesson.
