It's over! Oilers Lose 4-3 in the SO

[Rawg]

Not every coach has had something against Nail. In fact Kreuger, Nelson, got the best out of Nail and Nail enjoyed very much playing for those coaches. Its not too much of a secret what Nail feels about Eakins.

But if you need to falsely generalize to suit your argument you should recognize holes in your argument.

As for Drai he's the outlier player in this lineup. A guy that offseason substantially improved his game. Which no other player in this lineup does. Sure, I could wish Yak does the same but no other team does and they still have their cushy lines insured all season.

Nuge just had a horrendous production year for a guy that has been slotted in topsix all season. Yet nothing ever happens there. No demotion, lol they actually move Drai, who has been better than Nuge and more deserving all year, to wing, sot that Special NUge can play Center.

if you think there isn't some differential treatment here and a few sacred cows I don't know what to tell you. Nuge is obviously inferior to McDavid or Drai and yet the team still wants to insure a top C position for him. just because. with that player, who finished with 34pts, theres no play your way into the topsix rotation expectation. Its guaranteed. When do you ever see Nuge anywhere else. His pts/60mins production is as bad as Yaks and his GA are worse.

I haven't commented about anyone elses' current years or past years, only nails and drais. When you're forced to resort to bringing up other players to attempt to defend him it shows a lack of substance in your arguments, especially regarding RNH because post injury he was on the third line with Leon and Mcdavid composing the top two centers, and even during this awful season of his he still has 4 more goals, 11 more points a +6 in 5 less games, while going through his injuries. He also faced much better competition then Yakupov as the coach decided he was fit to play those minutes over Yakupov... Drai was moved to the wing because that line was really good earlier in the season prior to RNHs injury, it has nothing to do with Nail.

Not every coach has had something against Nail. In fact Kreuger, Nelson, got the best out of Nail and Nail enjoyed very much playing for those coaches. Its not too much of a secret what Nail feels about Eakins.

Nuge is obviously inferior to McDavid or Drai and yet the team still wants to insure a top C position for him. just because. with that player, who finished with 34pts, theres no play your way into the topsix rotation expectation. Its guaranteed. When do you ever see Nuge anywhere else. His pts/60mins production is as bad as Yaks and his GA are worse

I'll respond to both of these at the same time. RNH although in my mind not a good enough player in the first place, is still a much better NHL player then Nail Yakupov. Any statistic, any measure, any eye test will show you that as well. RNH throughout his career has been facing MUCH better competition and faring much better because coaches can and do trust him in that role. There is a reason nail is spoon fed minutes against low quality players and does abysmal.Each and every coach we have had has given him these minutes because he is simply not good enough for a top 6 role or more specifically, we somehow always have better players then him for that role. Even in his season under Krueger, who I already analyzed and showed you the huge anomaly in a lockout shortened season(which you choose to ignore) this was the same. RNH is, has been and will be the better player. If Nail yakupov was anywhere near his draft pedigree he would have "differential treatment" too...
Stats under Nelson?
Nails stateline was 81 14 19 33 -35
RNH for comparison 76 24 32 56 -12
Cmon man, you gotta look at this subjectively here, Im not attacking Nail and you don't need to act like criticisms of nail are ones of you or your opinion, they are my opinion but the difference between us is mine are backed up by facts whereas yours are out of passion.

 

[Replacement*]

I haven't commented about anyone elses' current years or past years, only nails and drais. When you're forced to resort to bringing up other players to attempt to defend him it shows a lack of substance in your arguments, especially regarding RNH because post injury he was on the third line with Leon and Mcdavid composing the top two centers, and even during this awful season of his he still has 4 more goals, 11 more points a +6 in 5 less games, while going through his injuries. He also faced much better competition then Yakupov as the coach decided he was fit to play those minutes over Yakupov... Drai was moved to the wing because that line was really good earlier in the season prior to RNHs injury, it has nothing to do with Nail.

Drai and hALL were very good and it had nothing to do with Nuge. Not even sure what you're talking about or which Nuge injury you are referring to. When Drai and Hall were ripping it up Nuge was playing with Eberle.

I'll respond to both of these at the same time. RNH although in my mind not a good enough player in the first place, is still a much better NHL player then Nail Yakupov. Any statistic, any measure, any eye test will show you that as well. RNH throughout his career has been facing MUCH better competition and faring much better because coaches can and do trust him in that role. There is a reason nail is spoon fed minutes against low quality players and does abysmal.Each and every coach we have had has given him these minutes because he is simply not good enough for a top 6 role or more specifically, we somehow always have better players then him for that role. Even in his season under Krueger, who I already analyzed and showed you the huge anomaly in a lockout shortened season(which you choose to ignore) this was the same. RNH is, has been and will be the better player. If Nail yakupov was anywhere near his draft pedigree he would have "differential treatment" too...
Stats under Nelson?
Nails stateline was 81 14 19 33 -35
RNH for comparison 76 24 32 56 -12
Cmon man, you gotta look at this subjectively here, Im not attacking Nail and you don't need to act like criticisms of nail are ones of you or your opinion, they are my opinion but the difference between us is mine are backed up by facts whereas yours are out of passion.

[/QUOTE]Actually Nuge has been eaten alive in GA the past couple seasons with some of the highest GA totals in the whole league. But don't let that stop you from invoking the oft stated narrative that he's a complete player. Nuge got tough minutes here in the past and drowned. The only reason Nuges +/- looks different than Nuge is RNH is the beneficiary of the two highest producers on the club disguising his GA.

As per Nails rookie season and your silly look at his segments does it ever occur to you that perhaps a rookie player takes about 20 games to figure out the standard of play here. Yak was flying half way through the lockout shortened season. Few rookies that are not generational elites hit the ground running. That Yak scored at a .360GPG rate in his rookie season is freaking amazing. Although you try hard to find ways to fault that. That's why I didn't bother responding to that.

 

[Aerchon]

I know that Yak is extremely likeable and that he wasn't gifted opportunity like many others on our team but... The guy has never shown enough to think he should be used much more than he has been.

His nhl toolset isn't great and his junior hockey IQ really makes him tough to play, especially on this team, with the players legitimately in front of him.

He has been forced to push his way into the top six and instead of rising to the challenge he fails.

I can't count how many times I thought "yes, finally Yak looks like he is going well". Only to have him turn the puck over in the slot not 5 minutes after making some good plays or scoring a goal.

 

[Rawg]

Drai and hALL were very good and it had nothing to do with Nuge. Not even sure what you're talking about or which Nuge injury you are referring to. When Drai and Hall were ripping it up Nuge was playing with Eberle.



Actually Nuge has been eaten alive in GA the past couple seasons with some of the highest GA totals in the whole league. But don't let that stop you from invoking the oft stated narrative that he's a complete player. Nuge got tough minutes here in the past and failed.

When RNH returned from his first injury, he was slotted on the third line with Nail. Leon and Hall even in their cold streaks were paired with Kassian at the time.

I don't think RNH is a good player either, I know his statistics, but its very disingenuous to say RNHs GA is one of the most without mentioning Yakupov has won the green jacket 2/4 years of his career. RNH although not amazing defensively(agree with you here) is still light-years ahead of nail and there is no denying that.If you mention it, I will agree that nail has improved this year but prior to this season he has been league worst. Fact is RNH scores more, and gets scored on less, hes the better hockey player.

 

[Replacement*]

When RNH returned from his first injury, he was slotted on the third line with Nail. Leon and Hall even in their cold streaks were paired with Kassian at the time.

I don't think RNH is a good player either, I know his statistics, but its very disingenuous to say RNHs GA is one of the most without mentioning Yakupov has won the green jacket 2/4 years of his career. RNH although not amazing defensively(agree with you here) is still light-years ahead of nail and there is no denying that.If you mention it, I will agree that nail has improved this year but prior to this season he has been league worst. Fact is RNH scores more, and gets scored on less, hes the better hockey player.

Let me be clear here. Yaks GA was horrendous during the Eakins tenure here and I really think Eakins brought the absolute worst out of Yak. I think Yak was listless and beaten on some nights. The spirit was kicked out of the young kid due to the scapegoating. That's a theory, yes, but no so unreasonable when we know what a fool Eakins was.

This year Yak has made improvements in GA. That he is still a - player has a lot to do with Letestu only producing around 10 EV assists all season. Any GA are going to factor prominently when theres such limited GF. lets be clear here that nobody on the team has produced well given bottomsix minutes.

 

[Jet Walters]

Once again the post game thread gets turned into a Yakupov debate.

The problem with Yakupov is that even if he is scoring, he still costs the team with brutal turnovers and poor positional play. He's not a player you win with, simple as that. I look forward to his departure.

 

[Replacement*]

I know that Yak is extremely likeable and that he wasn't gifted opportunity like many others on our team but... The guy has never shown enough to think he should be used much more than he has been.

His nhl toolset isn't great and his junior hockey IQ really makes him tough to play, especially on this team, with the players legitimately in front of him.

He has been forced to push his way into the top six and instead of rising to the challenge he fails.

I can't count how many times I thought "yes, finally Yak looks like he is going well". Only to have him turn the puck over in the slot not 5 minutes after making some good plays or scoring a goal.

Yak had 4pts, 2G, 2A in last 4GP in only 13mins game and was still slotting in some of his minutes in bottomsix and of course not in the shootout. It really doesn't matter though.

Yak could finish a year being the top scorer on the team and be HS and benched the next season.

Yak could finish a year getting 20pts in last 28GP with the unsung Derek Roy and still be buried in lineup the subsequent season.

It doesn't really matter here what Yak does. He's buried.

 

[Rawg]

Let me be clear here. Yaks GA was horrendous during the Eakins tenure here and I really think Eakins brought the absolute worst out of Yak. I think Yak was listless and beaten on some nights. The spirit was kicked out of the young kid due to the scapegoating. That's a theory, yes, but no so unreasonable when we know what a fool Eakins was.

This year Yak has made improvements in GA. That he is still a - player has a lot to do with Letestu only producing around 10 EV assists all season. Any GA are going to factor prominently when theres such limited GF. lets be clear here that nobody on the team has produced well given bottomsix minutes.

I'll agree with that regarding issues with the bottom six production. Im just of the opinion that a player of first overall talent should be able to produce more in that situation and the others he has been in. In regards to your late edit

As per Nails rookie season and your silly look at his segments does it ever occur to you that perhaps a rookie player takes about 20 games to figure out the standard of play here. Yak was flying half way through the lockout shortened season. Few rookies that are not generational elites hit the ground running. That Yak scored at a .360GPG rate in his rookie season is freaking amazing. Although you try hard to find ways to fault that. That's why I didn't bother responding to that.

I agree had had a great rookie season and should have won the calder tbh, but you have to admit that the 3 months prior to April he was scoring 0.2 goals/game, but then in one month rose to 0.8 goals/game, and that is a little strange? His shooting percentage took a rocket into space for April and that production has never been repeated. He honestly had 10 good games out of 48. If he scored at that rate he did you realize he would be scoring 70 goals in a season, that's insane.

His rookie season was 3 seasons ago, I think its time we base opinions off what he is doing, not what he did. Hall and Eberles rookie seasons were worse, RNHs was better, Each of those guys has changed and improved their game as they continued in the league, Nail hasn't. I find it hypocritical to mention RNH getting minutes he doesn't deserve in an earlier post because right now yak is the definition of; Potential? Yes, results, No.

 

[Replacement*]

Once again the post game thread gets turned into a Yakupov debate.

The problem with Yakupov is that even if he is scoring, he still costs the team with brutal turnovers and poor positional play. He's not a player you win with, simple as that. I look forward to his departure.

He's made pretty good strides in his all round play. GA this season have not been a problem, have not been out of the ordinary.

Strange that you don't win with a player who was the only reason we even got a point last night and probably would have had two if he was in the shootout..

 

[rboomercat90]

Eh, that was a pretty nothing slash. The refs did their usual routine against us. Let an obvious trip go, and call us for a nothing retaliation. I don't blame Hall one bit for that play.

Except it wasn't. Pretty hard two hander across the ankle. Something he's done several times when he loses his cool. Something he does for his benefit only and certainly not for the good of the team.

Had he not done it, overtime just ends. Canucks were in no threat to score on that play. Instead, there's a face off in the Oilers end with seven seconds left and the Canucks get two good scoring chances and came close to ending the game. All this because of a bad, selfish penalty. Obviously this game didn't matter in the standings but I wonder if this is one of those many things that bugged Maclellan through out the year that he's trying to get rid of. I think he overlooked Hall in the shoot out to send one last message this season.

 

[McShogun99]

We could trade all of Hall, Eberle, RNH and Yakupov this off season and I wouldn't even care. A few years ago there would be no way that I would want any one of them traded. The players from rebuild 1.0 are tainted. Build this team around Mcdavid, Draisaitl, Klefbom, Nurse and whoever we draft this season. Trade the old core for veteran help and defence.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I'm not the biggest Talbot fan but part of the reason our team doesn't look worse is that he's there to cover up the mistakes, because this team makes many, many mistakes that a more competent team would've been all over. If that were the Kings we were playing last night the score likely would've been 6-1.

 

[Replacement*]

Except it wasn't. Pretty hard two hander across the ankle. Something he's done several times when he loses his cool. Something he does for his benefit only and certainly not for the good of the team.

Had he not done it, overtime just ends. Canucks were in no threat to score on that play. Instead, there's a face off in the Oilers end with seven seconds left and the Canucks get two good scoring chances and came close to ending the game. All this because of a bad, selfish penalty. Obviously this game didn't matter in the standings but I wonder if this is one of those many things that bugged Maclellan through out the year that he's trying to get rid of. I think he overlooked Hall in the shoot out to send one last message this season.

But sorry, and the irony in this is that if we're following the narrative is that Hall doesn't care about the 2 pts, McLellan doesn't either because half his shootout lineup is weird, we only get 1pt anyway and yet hall is catching flack in the thread.

Is McLellan mad at Hall and at himself..

 

[oobga]

Just hit me that we exceeded the cap for a 29th place team. That's pretty impressive. Florida can suck on that, I think our 10 year drought record is way more impressive considering the money spent. Of course, we couldn't have achieved this without all the hard work of Lowe, MacT, Howson, Tambo and all their friends, so props to them.

 

[rboomercat90]

But sorry, and the irony in this is that if we're following the narrative is that Hall doesn't care about the 2 pts, McLellan doesn't either because half his shootout lineup is weird, we only get 1pt anyway and yet hall is catching flack in the thread.

Is McLellan mad at Hall and at himself..

I'm not trying to absolve Mclellan for his choices. I found them just as baffling as you did. I'm just trying to figure out how he's getting to them. If Eakins makes those choices, it would have its own thread. Some here are chalking it up to "Todd just rewarding guys he thought played well". Bottom line is it did cost the team a win.

I'm not ripping on Hall either. Just wish he'd think a little before he whacks guys. He did put the team in a bind at the end even if it was only for seven seconds.

After the game I tried to understand the selections. The Yak one was is easy, I guess, they don't want him there and he doesn't want to be there anymore either. Not that I agree, but he seems to be nothing but an afterthought to this organization. It's become really easy for them to push him to the bottom of any pecking order. They're just buying time until he's gone.

Skipping Hall through seven rounds made no sense so I figure there has to be a reason. Considering his late season slide and all of Maclellan's outbursts towards the end of the year, my first thought was maybe he's one of the guys the organization has soured on. I think he's made it abundantly clear there are players they've soured on. I hope that isn't the case that's when I brought up the "punishment for bad penalty thing".

I guess we'll have a better idea what him and Chiarelli are thinking of these players as the summer goes on and maybe we'll be better able to understand some of his strange decisions a little better then. One thing for sure though, he needs to be a much better coach next year when games still matter than he was this year. The same can be said for Chiarelli too having undeserving players in the lineup for long stretches just in hopes of boosting their trade value from a fourth round pick to a third round pick.

 

[rboomercat90]

Just hit me that we exceeded the cap for a 29th place team. That's pretty impressive. Florida can suck on that, I think our 10 year drought record is way more impressive considering the money spent. Of course, we couldn't have achieved this without all the hard work of Lowe, MacT, Howson, Tambo and all their friends, so props to them.

Not surprised. I figured this was coming, both the basement finish and exceeding the cap, after Mac T's brutal final offseason. That money he spent on garbage players had me thinking about the 2009-10 season when it all really started falling apart. I remember being blasted about it that summer by the people who always thought that group could do no wrong.

 

[The Panther]

We could trade all of Hall, Eberle, RNH and Yakupov this off season and I wouldn't even care. A few years ago there would be no way that I would want any one of them traded. The players from rebuild 1.0 are tainted. Build this team around Mcdavid, Draisaitl, Klefbom, Nurse and whoever we draft this season. Trade the old core for veteran help and defence.

Agree. They can all go.

I suppose they'll keep Hall and Eberle, who are at times quite good players, and that's okay. But yes, they're tainted. Hall has failed to be a team leader.

Yakupov is quite capable of jumping off the bench and back into it. However, he's yet to achieve anything on the ice. Get rid of him, ASAP -- please.

 

[harpoon]

Skipping Hall through seven rounds made no sense so I figure there has to be a reason. Considering his late season slide and all of Maclellan's outbursts towards the end of the year, my first thought was maybe he's one of the guys the organization has soured on. I think he's made it abundantly clear there are players they've soured on. I hope that isn't the case that's when I brought up the "punishment for bad penalty thing".

Rob Brown made it abundantly clear on the post game show last night that he felt Mclellan left Hall out exactly because of what you say - he took a stupid, selfish penalty.
In fact Brown went on and on about it.

I think that might be the reason, but I disagree with it. Hall was trying so hard to win last night. When he went to the box he was breathing so hard I thought he was going to throw up a lung. He got a dirty play and he whacked the offender in the skates. Stupid ref made a bad call again.

I don't care who shot in the shootout last night. It was a nothing game and the extra point meant nothing. So who cares. If McLellan is choosing that moment in the season to punish some guys, well it seems a little petty to me. Rewarding his favorites I can see. Punishing guys in the last second of the last game seems dumb to me.

 

[ZJuice]

Rob Brown made it abundantly clear on the post game show last night that he felt Mclellan left Hall out exactly because of what you say - he took a stupid, selfish penalty.
In fact Brown went on and on about it.

I think that might be the reason, but I disagree with it. Hall was trying so hard to win last night. When he went to the box he was breathing so hard I thought he was going to throw up a lung. He got a dirty play and he whacked the offender in the skates. Stupid ref made a bad call again.

I don't care who shot in the shootout last night. It was a nothing game and the extra point meant nothing. So who cares. If McLellan is choosing that moment in the season to punish some guys, well it seems a little petty to me. Rewarding his favorites I can see. Punishing guys in the last second of the last game seems dumb to me.

Hall had no shootout attempts all season. He is also 4/17 (23.5%) in the shootout for his career. What did he do to deserve a shootout attempt last night?

 

[Up the Irons]

Yak had 4pts, 2G, 2A in last 4GP in only 13mins game and was still slotting in some of his minutes in bottomsix and of course not in the shootout. It really doesn't matter though.

Yak could finish a year being the top scorer on the team and be HS and benched the next season.

Yak could finish a year getting 20pts in last 28GP with the unsung Derek Roy and still be buried in lineup the subsequent season.

It doesn't really matter here what Yak does. He's buried.

This conspiracy/discrimination against Yak is getting awfully tired. Two consecutive NHL coaches didn't give him much ice time for a reason. I'm gonna take their side on this one.

 

[syz]

Not every coach has had something against Nail. In fact Kreuger, Nelson, got the best out of Nail and Nail enjoyed very much playing for those coaches. Its not too much of a secret what Nail feels about Eakins.

But if you need to falsely generalize to suit your argument you should recognize holes in your argument.

As for Drai he's the outlier player in this lineup. A guy that offseason substantially improved his game. Which no other player in this lineup does. Sure, I could wish Yak does the same but no other team does and they still have their cushy lines insured all season.

Nuge just had a horrendous production year for a guy that has been slotted in topsix all season. Yet nothing ever happens there. No demotion, lol they actually move Drai, who has been better than Nuge and more deserving all year, to wing, sot that Special NUge can play Center.

if you think there isn't some differential treatment here and a few sacred cows I don't know what to tell you. Nuge is obviously inferior to McDavid or Drai and yet the team still wants to insure a top C position for him. just because. with that player, who finished with 34pts, theres no play your way into the topsix rotation expectation. Its guaranteed. When do you ever see Nuge anywhere else. His pts/60mins production is as bad as Yaks and his GA are worse.

Krueger definitely had something against Nail. For the majority of his rookie year he was benched as soon as the Oilers had the lead so that Krueger could double shift Lennart Petrell or some other scrub. I vividly remember him having his best shift of the season, and then not getting another one the rest of the game.

He also saw zero 5 on 3 time, and PP time in general until injuries forced him into more ice time, upon which his point totals shot up to end the year.

We all seethed about Krueger's treatment of Yakupov at the time, and I'm constantly surprised how many people here have forgotten.

 

[Replacement*]

This conspiracy/discrimination against Yak is getting awfully tired. Two consecutive NHL coaches didn't give him much ice time for a reason. I'm gonna take their side on this one.

Yak had 7pts in last 10GP while playing low minutes and a mix of top and bottomsix toi. In that span he also had 2pts oddly taken away from what the original on ice calls were. Just saying. So in the span of last 10GP he was intimately involved in 9 scoring plays. Some of the goals and assists in that span being quite impressive.

Last night Yak had the two best passes of the night for assists.

Game before that was looking tough half way through until Yak scores with a tremendous shot. Then the Oilers gained some confidence. But interestingly not till Yak scored.

The guy is actually playing well. By any reasonable definition.

 

[Replacement*]

Krueger definitely had something against Nail. For the majority of his rookie year he was benched as soon as the Oilers had the lead so that Krueger could double shift Lennart Petrell or some other scrub. I vividly remember him having his best shift of the season, and then not getting another one the rest of the game.

He also saw zero 5 on 3 time, and PP time in general until injuries forced him into more ice time, upon which his point totals shot up to end the year.

We all seethed about Krueger's treatment of Yakupov at the time, and I'm constantly surprised how many people here have forgotten.

With all due respect in a year in which the Edmonton Oilers were being competitive, and actually vying for a playoff spot, virtually any coach would not be granting shifts liberally to a rookie player in a shortened 48 game season where every game was monumentally important. In retrospect it makes sense Krueger would shorten his bench as most coaches do. Most coaches also seem to have their favorite players that they think are least likely to result in GA. Again with a rookie yak being an ill advised candidate to be putting out late in a game with a 1 goal lead. At the time it was frustrating and specially in instances of tie games or if we needed a goal but by the last segment Yak was getting that toi afairc.

 

[rboomercat90]

Krueger definitely had something against Nail. For the majority of his rookie year he was benched as soon as the Oilers had the lead so that Krueger could double shift Lennart Petrell or some other scrub. I vividly remember him having his best shift of the season, and then not getting another one the rest of the game.

He also saw zero 5 on 3 time, and PP time in general until injuries forced him into more ice time, upon which his point totals shot up to end the year.

We all seethed about Krueger's treatment of Yakupov at the time, and I'm constantly surprised how many people here have forgotten.

There seems to be a lot of selective memory here regarding Krueger's treatment of Yakupov. Many people at the time were blaming him for Yakupov not winning the Calder because he was limiting his ice time. I haven't heard that mentioned here for years.

 

[Up the Irons]

Yak had 7pts in last 10GP while playing low minutes and a mix of top and bottomsix toi. In that span he also had 2pts oddly taken away from what the original on ice calls were. Just saying. So in the span of last 10GP he was intimately involved in 9 scoring plays. Some of the goals and assists in that span being quite impressive.

Last night Yak had the two best passes of the night for assists.

Game before that was looking tough half way through until Yak scores with a tremendous shot. Then the Oilers gained some confidence. But interestingly not till Yak scored.

The guy is actually playing well. By any reasonable definition.

Good for him.