Confirmed with Link: Islanders sign Austin Czarnik

[Throttle]

This player is the reason why in the future you do NOT sign fourth liners like Martin, Clutterbuck, Cizikas to long term deals. Cizikas you can make an argument for, but these players who are hungry and have not gotten a full shot yet are always more than good enough.

Go back to Bardreau when he was here. The dude was fine on the fourth line and was much cheaper.

And where did Bardreau eventually end up after his stint?

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

And where did Bardreau eventually end up after his stint?

Ohhhhhh, snap!!!

 

[YearlyLottery]

And where did Bardreau eventually end up after his stint?

You are totally missing the point. The Islanders cap wise are in a terrible position mainly because they have insisted on paying guys like Clutterbuck, Martin, Cizikas, etc (all bottom six players) instead of simply having players like Bardreau, Cznarnick, Timashov, etc play in those positions.

Replace those three names with any other decent players and you get the point right? And no I do not count Pageau as your typical bottom sixer.

 

[The Real JT]

You are totally missing the point. The Islanders cap wise are in a terrible position mainly because they have insisted on paying guys like Clutterbuck, Martin, Cizikas, etc (all bottom six players) instead of simply having players like Bardreau, Cznarnick, Timashov, etc play in those positions.

Replace those three names with any other decent players and you get the point right? And no I do not count Pageau as your typical bottom sixer.

Throw in Leo who is a fifth liner masquerading as a third liner.

 

[Throttle]

You are totally missing the point. The Islanders cap wise are in a terrible position mainly because they have insisted on paying guys like Clutterbuck, Martin, Cizikas, etc (all bottom six players) instead of simply having players like Bardreau, Cznarnick, Timashov, etc play in those positions.

Replace those three names with any other decent players and you get the point right? And no I do not count Pageau as your typical bottom sixer.

I understand your point. You can cycle in the scrap yard when you are two line team and those two lines play most of the game and provide the offense, which is relied on every night to win games: Good: Pittsburgh, Bad: Edmonton. When you are 4 line team, you need stability on that 4th line as you are relying on them to contribute more to the overall game.

The Isles are not built like a 2 line team, well, because they do not have that elite talent up front to tip the roster in that favor. So, supporting the 4 line team with actual NHL players is what the Isles are doing. Rolling out the scrap yard, adds risk to the game since scoring and defense are distributed. Very easy to think the scrap yard can just play, they are adequate, cheaper, etc. but time and time again, teams (coaches) want consistent NHL players. We know fans think these things are interchangeable, but they are not.

 

[IslesNorway]

Throw in Leo who is a fifth liner masquerading as a third liner.

Not to mention Ladd and Hickey and throwing huge contracts at the likes of Eberle

 

[YearlyLottery]

I understand your point. You can cycle in the scrap yard when you are two line team and those two lines play most of the game and provide the offense, which is relied on every night to win games: Good: Pittsburgh, Bad: Edmonton. When you are 4 line team, you need stability on that 4th line as you are relying on them to contribute more to the overall game.

The Isles are not built like a 2 line team, well, because they do not have that elite talent up front to tip the roster in that favor. So, supporting the 4 line team with actual NHL players is what the Isles are doing. Rolling out the scrap yard, adds risk to the game since scoring and defense are distributed. Very easy to think the scrap yard can just play, they are adequate, cheaper, etc. but time and time again, teams (coaches) want consistent NHL players. We know fans think these things are interchangeable, but they are not.

I see you point but I’d make the argument this team could have added Hoffman under the cap had they not had so much money tied into the bottom six.

Can’t become a two line team if you don’t have the cap to become a two line team.

 

[Throttle]

I see you point but I’d make the argument this team could have added Hoffman under the cap had they not had so much money tied into the bottom six.

Can’t become a two line team if you don’t have the cap to become a two line team.

The contracts are what they are. If the Isles let all these guys go that the fans seem to rail against all day long, then you have an annual bottom 10 team waiting/hoping all the draft cards go in there favor year over year. Fans were ALREADY railing against that for years.

You become a two line team by drafting and in some sense getting lucky it works in your favor. Doubtful in the cap era you can build a successful two line team out of trades and UFAs.

 

[Throttle]

Not to mention Ladd and Hickey and throwing huge contracts at the likes of Eberle

Lou inherited Ladd, Hickey was serviceable, but it did not work out, and Eberle, well, go back and find a 50pt RWer in UFA for his price - not saying to like him or love him, just on the face of his 'numbers' he was on par. He leaves, Isles have another hole to fill - the often misaligned assumption is that player will be cheaper and better. Color me skeptical on that and also LMAO when the Isles fill his void with a 25pt has been or not yet developed prospect.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Interesting thread about Czarnik (click through and read em)

 

[Uncle Duke]

I understand your point. You can cycle in the scrap yard when you are two line team and those two lines play most of the game and provide the offense, which is relied on every night to win games: Good: Pittsburgh, Bad: Edmonton. When you are 4 line team, you need stability on that 4th line as you are relying on them to contribute more to the overall game.

The Isles are not built like a 2 line team, well, because they do not have that elite talent up front to tip the roster in that favor. So, supporting the 4 line team with actual NHL players is what the Isles are doing. Rolling out the scrap yard, adds risk to the game since scoring and defense are distributed. Very easy to think the scrap yard can just play, they are adequate, cheaper, etc. but time and time again, teams (coaches) want consistent NHL players. We know fans think these things are interchangeable, but they are not.

More overpay for average talent rambling. A recipe for long term mediocrity. Or worse.

 

[Throttle]

More overpay for average talent rambling. A recipe for long term mediocrity. Or worse.

Rebuild, rebuild, rebuild...The Story of the New York Islanders.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Rebuild, rebuild, rebuild...The Story of the New York Islanders.

So you keep buying into a so-so hand? You don't have many chips to begin with and there are 31 other players at the table and at least 10 to 15 of them have a better hand then we do. We might be able to bluff our way past a few of them but we're not going to bluff our way past all of them.

We need better cards.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Rebuild, rebuild, rebuild...The Story of the New York Islanders.

Really?

We haven't been in a rebuild the past few years.

 

[beach]

Interesting thread about Czarnik (click through and read em)

A bit too early to make this proclamation based on one game, but based on his history, he would make a good replacement for Cizikas in the C role.

 

[SI90]

Rebuild, rebuild, rebuild...The Story of the New York Islanders.

we re-signed most of our veterans. We made it to the ECF last year and have had 3 straight 100pt pace seasons. What rebuild?

 

[Throttle]

So you keep buying into a so-so hand? You don't have many chips to begin with and there are 31 other players at the table and at least 10 to 15 of them have a better hand then we do. We might be able to bluff our way past a few of them but we're not going to bluff our way past all of them.

We need better cards.

Maybe, you need better cards. Most owners want to compete vs. investing in losing for several years, only hoping to win. The Isles had enough of a team to compete. See where it goes.

 

[Throttle]

Really?

We haven't been in a rebuild the past few years.

Just going with a certain mantra proffered.

 

[Throttle]

we re-signed most of our veterans. We made it to the ECF last year and have had 3 straight 100pt pace seasons. What rebuild?

You realize that's not good enough. Do you see the contracts? The cap space? The draft picks? The prospect pool? The 4th line?

 

[Uncle Duke]

Maybe, you need better cards. Most owners want to compete vs. investing in losing for several years, only hoping to win. The Isles had enough of a team to compete. See where it goes.

I have no idea what that first sentence means. I'm not the one in the game.

As to the rest of it, you're right, it all comes down to what the owners want/wanted to achieve. If mortgaging their future to be competitive - but not Cup competitive - for a few years was their goal then they have achieved it. I hope that it has been and will be worth the price.

 

[Throttle]

I have no idea what that first sentence means. I'm not the one in the game.

As to the rest of it, you're right, it all comes down to what the owners want/wanted to achieve. If mortgaging their future to be competitive - but not Cup competitive - for a few years was their goal then they have achieved it. I hope that it has been and will be worth the price.

Here's the dividing line. Competitive vs. Cup Competitive. There are few teams annually that are sustained annual Cup Competitive. However, there are plenty of Competitive teams that can, maybe, get over the hump somehow to win a Cup. One is very fan driven, the other is more business driven.

I understand your premise. Business side says the team was competitive enough, go for it, being competitive (as a playoff contender) works for the business side until ambivalence sets in where a decision needs to be made by the owner(s).

 

[13th Floor]

A bit too early to make this proclamation based on one game, but based on his history, he would make a good replacement for Cizikas in the C role.

Solely so we can continue to just say Czjasfksadas and still be right.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Here's the dividing line. Competitive vs. Cup Competitive. There are few teams annually that are sustained annual Cup Competitive. However, there are plenty of Competitive teams that can, maybe, get over the hump somehow to win a Cup. One is very fan driven, the other is more business driven.

I understand your premise. Business side says the team was competitive enough, go for it, being competitive (as a playoff contender) works for the business side until ambivalence sets in where a decision needs to be made by the owner(s).

I don't disagree with any of that. I just think they made the wrong choice in thinking that the team was/is competitive enough and that ultimately that choice is going to hold us back from becoming truly Cup competitive for some time to come. And that pisses me off.

There remains a degree of hope that Bellows and Wahlstrom will yet become highly productive 1st and/or 2nd line players thereby relegating some of our now 1st and 2nd line players to their proper places on 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines (though you can't afford to have that much dough devoted to 3rd and 4th lines so maybe just gone), that Sorokin will become the goalie we all hope he'll be and that somewhere among the Holmstroms, Bolducs, Dufours, Wildes and so on that there are some Palats or Points in the mix.

The point is, we're not trading or free agenting our way to a Cup (or overpaying our way for that matter). We are who we are, new building or no new building.

 

[beach]

Solely so we can continue to just say Czjasfksadas and still be right.

 

[doublechili]

Solely so we can continue to just say Czjasfksadas and still be right.

Showing my age here... what was that Soupy Sales song - Fafalafaka?