Islanders General Rumour, Trade, FA, & Waiver Speculation 2018-19 Part III

[aronjudge11]

MALKIN, was shaking his head at this trade..."Why trade a guy for a bunch of assets when you can let him.walk for nothing?"

 

[leeroggy]

You do realize he was essentially a 70 point player at one point, right? That’s where the decline was. He’s now a 50 point center who provided a good two way game, but he’s going to end up getting a long term deal worth $7+ million. He’s not worth that contract now and he’s not going to live up to it. He’s had streaky years mixed into his career as well and the fact that he “rebounded” when he started wanting to get traded and wanting a contract is concerning.

He can easily come here for free when his contract is up after the season if you want him so badly. So why would you give up assists for a guy who’s almost guaranteed to hit FA in under a year? This also isn’t “my way of thinking”. We aren’t going to be competitive this season. We aren’t in a position to make a trade like this when we’re rebuilding. Why do you want to give up assets with huge upsides who are years younger than Duchene when we aren’t in a position to win now?

He had ONE 70 point year.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Ottawa didn't get a single A+ level prospect/young player for the best defenseman of this generation. A guy that controls the game when he's on the ice.

If you are trading a player of that caliber you have to be getting multiple blue chip prospects. There is not a single player in that package that is likely turn into an allstar. Ottawa has become the laughing stock of the league.

True. They really didn't get any A+ level prospects.

And one has to think they wanted him out of the conference, because at first glance you'd simply have to think they could get better than that.

Nonetheless, when also looking at the Pacioretty deal, I think we all need to move away from believing a team can get the haul the actual player himself should demand if said player is in the last year of his contract. That simply changes EVERYTHING.

Because not a team in the league is selling the farm to chance it with only one guaranteed season of that guy.

Sure, again, everyone know a 1st and a 2nd and conditional picks are gonna be part of the package for a Karlsson one way or the other, coming from wherever, but getting the kind of young player or prospect who can totally kickstart your rebuild isn't happening (anymore). Not for that guy who is one season off of free agency.

Not for a guy who could easily just go the Tavares route.

I'm curious to see the mediocre return they get for Stone and Duchene.

True.

Ottawa has a pretty decent little group of prospects at the moment.

If they're ready to just entirely throw away the next season from a competitive standpoint, it'll be very fascinating to see what all these players bring and thus, what they'll end up with when all is said and done.

Alas, Duchene is also an upcoming UFA and may not have much of a market.

Stone should have a bit of a higher profile.

 

[PK Cronin]

I tried telling people during the Tavares fiasco that player value isn't a 1:1 relationship. Karlsson being twice as good as Duchene or Stone doesn't mean he'll return twice as many valuable assets. There's a limit to what teams are willing to part with for a single asset, and especially one that is on the last year of their contract. Many teams would rather spend less and get a slightly weaker version of the top guys.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Lou not overpaying for Karlsson or Patch shows me he is going to be patient on the Isles rather than try to push to be better soon. I think this is a positive compared to his latter years in NJ of some questionable moves, and more in line to what he did in Toronto. To me this is not a full rebuild, but retool in the VGK manner. They have some fine young draft picks mixed in with some vets. It can work. Gone are the days of the 5 year rebuild. Teams can come out of nowhere and compete in a year after missing the playoffs. All you need is capspace and some good Mgt.

 

[PWJunior]

Lou not overpaying for Karlsson or Patch shows me he is going to be patient on the Isles rather than try to push to be better soon. I think this is a positive compared to his latter years in NJ of some questionable moves, and more in line to what he did in Toronto. To me this is not a full rebuild, but retool in the VGK manner. They have some fine young draft picks mixed in with some vets. It can work. Gone are the days of the 5 year rebuild. Teams can come out of nowhere and compete in a year after missing the playoffs. All you need is capspace and some good Mgt.

Snow left him a mess, Lou will need time to fix things. Like Lehner, take a step back and then leap forward. This team could look vastly different in 2019-2020 and suddenly resemble a fast and skilled team that is a beeyotch to play against.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Lou not overpaying for Karlsson or Patch shows me he is going to be patient on the Isles rather than try to push to be better soon. I think this is a positive compared to his latter years in NJ of some questionable moves, and more in line to what he did in Toronto. To me this is not a full rebuild, but retool in the VGK manner. They have some fine young draft picks mixed in with some vets. It can work. Gone are the days of the 5 year rebuild. Teams can come out of nowhere and compete in a year after missing the playoffs. All you need is capspace and some good Mgt.

I'm super happy Lou is here and even more happy that Trotz is here. And I definitely give Lou the benefit of the doubt and we'll see in 2-3 years whether or not his approach is successful.

But so far this offseason (other than signing Trotz) has been vintage Snow. Letting UFAs walk, signing 4th liners/AHLers and passing on the big fish and preaching "patience."

 

[IODCPiper]

Now might be the time to inquire again on Duchene.

Heck, offer Quenneville, Bellows, Soderstrom, Cizikas and a 2020 1st?

For who? Duchene? Why would you want isles to trade that much for him??? 2020 1st, clutter and nelson

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Snow left him a mess, Lou will need time to fix things. Like Lehner, take a step back and then leap forward. This team could look vastly different in 2019-2020 and suddenly resemble a fast and skilled team that is a beeyotch to play against.

I really am curious how this team performs this year. I have no idea until the first couple of weeks this season. I look at the VGK. They were led by one scoring line and 3, good #3 lines with terrific goaltending all the way to the Cup. The structure and professionalism Lou and Barry have instilled in their quick time on the Island is already trickling down. You can see why he dealt for Martin. He has already had a positive effect on the team dynamics, so has Lehner. All these are good character people. Komarov is going to be another character guy. This is going to be an interesting team to play against. If Barzal takes another step fwd, I am not counting them out. One superstar, with a lot of character parts that pull together can go a long way.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I think Vegas will prove that last year wasn't a fluke. They may not reach the finals, but I think they are a top 3 team in the west, right behind Winnipeg and Nashville.

Ottawa has some huge decisions coming up Duchene, Stone, and Karlsson all pending ufas. I don't envy them whatsoever.

Vegas was given a really stacked draft, so it's no surprise they did well. In the previous draft, teams were allowed to protect more players, and had the option of protecting both goalies, and all the drafted players had to be split between two teams.

But the schedule was also stacked, at least in the first half. I did an analysis of their schedule at about the 50 game point, and by then they had played about 20 games where they were rested, while their opponent was on the back end of back-to-back games, or was playing their third game in four nights. A couple of other teams I checked had been in that situation 6 or 7 times. (Sorry, I don't have the exact numbers handy, but that's the ballpark.)

 

[notDatsyuk]

Folks, considering the whole world knew Karlsson was on his way out and the Sens were simply going to get younger in the process, Ottawa got a boatload in return.

<<<
The Senators will receive Chris Tierney, Dylan DeMelo, Josh Norris, Rudolfs Balcers, 2020 first-round pick, a 2019 second-round pick and two conditional picks in return.
<<<

This isn't about Tierney (who is BTW a much better, and more durable, offensive player than Cizikas) and DeMelo. It's not even all that much about a 1st, 2nd, and 2 conditionals - which you kind of knew were coming back in any kind of deal for Karlsson.

I'm just gonna suppose that you're simply not familiar with who Josh Norris and Rudolfs Balcers are???

Welp, read up. These are some really fine prospects. Although different types of players on whole, that'd be like us giving up Bellows and Ho-Sang in such a move.

This is a good haul for Ottawa under the circumstances. There are some nice pieces there to move forward with.

Yep. San Jose is in rental mode, because their window of opportunity is closing rapidly.

 

[CREW99AW]

I know Sens fans are holding out hope Melnyk sells,but with Seattle joining the league and bringing expansion $ + the new Ottawa arena Melnyk is pushing for, he has no reason to sell

 

[notDatsyuk]

I know Sens fans are holding out hope Melnyk sells,but with Seattle joining the league and bringing expansion $ + the new Ottawa arena Melnyk is pushing for, he has no reason to sell

Except maybe to get out of town before the lynch mob gets organized.

 

[CREW99AW]

Except maybe to get out of town before the lynch mob gets organized.

Isles have had plenty of lousy owners, whose #1 priority was the tv contract or developing the land surrounding the Coliseum. So, yeah it sucks having a majority owner like Melnyk.

 

[WangMustGo]

True. They really didn't get any A+ level prospects.

And one has to think they wanted him out of the conference, because at first glance you'd simply have to think they could get better than that.

Nonetheless, when also looking at the Pacioretty deal, I think we all need to move away from believing a team can get the haul the actual player himself should demand if said player is in the last year of his contract. That simply changes EVERYTHING.

Because not a team in the league is selling the farm to chance it with only one guaranteed season of that guy.

Sure, again, everyone know a 1st and a 2nd and conditional picks are gonna be part of the package for a Karlsson one way or the other, coming from wherever, but getting the kind of young player or prospect who can totally kickstart your rebuild isn't happening (anymore). Not for that guy who is one season off of free agency.

Not for a guy who could easily just go the Tavares route.

For a guy like Karlsson you need to get an A+ level prospect back, if not multiple high level prospects. From all accounts it seems that Sergachev was part of the package available from Tampa. That is the type of guy that you need to acquire in return for a franchise defenseman.

Trading a guy like Karlsson should absolutely strip a teams farm system, it's a trade that should hurt. Ottawa should have gotten their rebuild kickstarted off this trade, but they didn't even get a first round pick in this coming draft. I would be livid if I was a Sens fan.

They completely destroyed their team in 2 trades. First paying exteremely too much for Duchene (who will walk or be traded) and now getting pennies on the dollar for Karlsson.

And lets not forget they are ripping the team apart and they don't even have their own first round pick this year. Sakic had the opportunity to have the 4th overall pick, but deferred it to next season because of the disaster that roster has become. My God a year ago they were an overtime goal away from heading to the Stanley cup, and now they are the laughing stock of the league.

 

[doublechili]

Has anyone ever seen a trade that included something like OTT's conditional 1st round draft pick if Karlsson goes to an Eastern Conference team this season? They REALLY want him out west.

 

[leeroggy]

For who? Duchene? Why would you want isles to trade that much for him??? 2020 1st, clutter and nelson

They're not going to take veterans as the major pieces. Soderstrom might never make the NHL, Quenneville is one of many in our organization that plays his style and Bellows is a fair piece to send back. Cizikas is useful and balances the money.

 

[IODCPiper]

They're not going to take veterans as the major pieces. Soderstrom might never make the NHL, Quenneville is one of many in our organization that plays his style and Bellows is a fair piece to send back. Cizikas is useful and balances the money.

Imo never trade bellows unless a much better piece then md comes back unless 1 for 1 bellows for md (with contract ext agreed)

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Not sure this has been posted. But I guess this qualifies as a signing, Jacques Lemaire is back with Lou again, not too surprising.

 

[Costigan77]

MALKIN, was shaking his head at this trade..."Why trade a guy for a bunch of assets when you can let him.walk for nothing?"

aAron

For the 50th time

 

[thedonger]

aAron

For the 50th time

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

But so far this offseason (other than signing Trotz) has been vintage Snow. Letting UFAs walk, signing 4th liners/AHLers and passing on the big fish and preaching "patience."

To be fair, Lou walked into a situation where he had to put mustard on a shit sandwich. I don't think this would be classified as normal operating procedure for these guys like it would be with Snow.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Has anyone ever seen a trade that included something like OTT's conditional 1st round draft pick if Karlsson goes to an Eastern Conference team this season? They REALLY want him out west.

I don't really understand why Ottawa cares if he ends up in the East this season. They can't control where he goes next season, since he's a UFA. And it's not like they're contending and don't want to face him in the East playoffs this year.

Usually, teams only care about trading a player out of conference if a]they're contending also and don't want to run into that player with the new team and b]if the player is signed for long-term, so it will be multiple years of facing the player and his new team.

 

[aronjudge11]

maybe a karlson trade at the draft and a trade for a number one goalie convince JT to return. If you look at JTs actions, ignore his statements to the media which never mean anything ....just his actions and statements to the team wanting a settled arena situation and a winning team, ...it's not a reach to think he may have stayed if they added a number one defenseman and a number one goalie at the draft. He may have looked at the roster and decided it's better than toronto

 

[PK Cronin]

I don't really understand why Ottawa cares if he ends up in the East this season. They can't control where he goes next season, since he's a UFA. And it's not like they're contending and don't want to face him in the East playoffs this year.

Usually, teams only care about trading a player out of conference if a]they're contending also and don't want to run into that player with the new team and b]if the player is signed for long-term, so it will be multiple years of facing the player and his new team.

What if San Jose wouldn't include the first but this was the compromise? San Jose is more likely to trade Karlsson to the East than the West on their own since they're in a win now mode and trading him in the West puts him on a contending team that's directly competing with the Sharks. Maybe this was the only way Ottawa could try and salvage a 1st?