Confirmed with Link: Islanders Acquire Romanov and 4th Round pick from MTL for '22 First Round Pick (13 Overall)

[Mike C]

I don't even know this defenseman but personally qm of the belief the team should never be trading 1st round draft picks. Free agents aren't comming here, they don't demand to be traded to the isles. If we want team with high end talent like tampa then you keep your 1st round draft picks and trade for more. We lost one to protect dehahn, Palmieri, jp who is another average player. I'd rather lottery tickets on hall of farmers than average players sorry.

I think the theory was he's 22 years old with a good contract who can step into a weak area and help now as well as having room to grow and improve where a draft pick would take years to develop

I think Pageau(I assume that's who you mean by JP) is a bit above average when we consider the intangibles he provides

 

[Skidrow11]

I think the theory was he's 22 years old with a good contract who can step into a weak area and help now as well as having room to grow and improve where a draft pick would take years to develop

I think Pageau(I assume that's who you mean by JP) is a bit above average when we consider the intangibles he provides

I get the point of view. But the isles have no high end players. I don't view Barzal as high as most do because he doesn't score goals. A healthy tampa team has like 5 guys better than the best islander player. That's inexcusable this teams payroll is too high for that mismatch

 

[Mike C]

I get the point of view. But the isles have no high end players. I don't view Barzal as high as most do because he doesn't score goals. A healthy tampa team has like 5 guys better than the best islander player. That's inexcusable this teams payroll is too high for that mismatch

No argument with that premise at all!

 

[Rehabguy]

I get the point of view. But the isles have no high end players. I don't view Barzal as high as most do because he doesn't score goals. A healthy tampa team has like 5 guys better than the best islander player. That's inexcusable this teams payroll is too high for that mismatch

The Isles of today are a defensively talented team from the goaltender out. I think however, they have enough firepower on the team with a balanced offense from all 4 lines that (under a more balanced system) can build leads that the defense can defend.

 

[Tahoeblue]

Imagine if they add Kadri.

With the way Wally threw the body last season and not being afraid to drop the gloves, we would become a very nasty team all of a sudden and very unpleasant to play against.

When Tavares left as a UFA, this team had an us against the world mentality. They were able to channel hate, disappointment, and the fact that everyone picked them to finish last that year. They were the Island of misfit toys. That mindset plus being a team that is going not give an inch and not lay down for more talented teams would be great. He sure would help with that. Teams should need more time in the tub and double the ice after they play us.

 

[NC 1972]

When Tavares left as a UFA, this team had an us against the world mentality. They were able to channel hate, disappointment, and the fact that everyone picked them to finish last that year. They were the Island of misfit toys. That mindset plus being a team that is going not give an inch and not lay down for more talented teams would be great. He sure would help with that. Teams should need more time in the tub and double the ice after they play us.

Island of Misfit Toys great reference and apparently that's how Free agents see the Island as well. No one wants to play with a Charlie in the box!

 

[JPIsles18]

I get the point of view. But the isles have no high end players. I don't view Barzal as high as most do because he doesn't score goals. A healthy tampa team has like 5 guys better than the best islander player. That's inexcusable this teams payroll is too high for that mismatch

I don't agree. Barzal is extremely skilled. On a better roster he's easily an 80-90 point player. Look at what he did in his rookie year. Under Weight, he had no leash. Furthermore, he's an elite playmaker without an elite finisher on his line. If you put an elite shooter on Barzal's line, that's a dominant line.

Under Lou, most of the moves being made are for players he is familiar with minimal upside (Palmieri, JGP, Parise, Chara, Greene). These are nice players that don't move the needle. It does wonders when you acquire a top line player. It slides everybody down a slot into their appropriate role. But instead we have a bunch of good second and third liners. It's hard to win in this league without shooting talent. It's even harder to win in the league when you don't have a transition game from the defensive zone (Chara and Greene were in the top 6 last season).

Lou is probably the worst GM in the league when it comes to roster construction. He rarely recognizes holes and rarely fills them. It's bad. On top of that there is no prospect depth. This makes the Romanov trade bad IMO. Romanov is not yet a good top 4 dman. He was pretty bad miscast as a top pair dman on a bad team. But when you have so few assets, you don't trade your best asset for a guy who has not shown he can be what Toews was. As of now, he projects as a better skating Mayfield.

It's almost as if he has no interest in acquiring top level talent.

 

[eoin92]

I don't agree. Barzal is extremely skilled. On a better roster he's easily an 80-90 point player. Look at what he did in his rookie year. Under Weight, he had no leash. Furthermore, he's an elite playmaker without an elite finisher on his line. If you put an elite shooter on Barzal's line, that's a dominant line.

Under Lou, most of the moves being made are for players he is familiar with minimal upside (Palmieri, JGP, Parise, Chara, Greene). These are nice players that don't move the needle. It does wonders when you acquire a top line player. It slides everybody down a slot into their appropriate role. But instead we have a bunch of good second and third liners. It's hard to win in this league without shooting talent. It's even harder to win in the league when you don't have a transition game from the defensive zone (Chara and Greene were in the top 6 last season).

Lou is probably the worst GM in the league when it comes to roster construction. He rarely recognizes holes and rarely fills them. It's bad. On top of that there is no prospect depth. This makes the Romanov trade bad IMO. Romanov is not yet a good top 4 dman. He was pretty bad miscast as a top pair dman on a bad team. But when you have so few assets, you don't trade your best asset for a guy who has not shown he can be what Toews was. As of now, he projects as a better skating Mayfield.

It's almost as if he has no interest in acquiring top level talent.

You preferred the Doug Weight Islanders?

 

[Skidrow11]

I don't agree. Barzal is extremely skilled. On a better roster he's easily an 80-90 point player. Look at what he did in his rookie year. Under Weight, he had no leash. Furthermore, he's an elite playmaker without an elite finisher on his line. If you put an elite shooter on Barzal's line, that's a dominant line.

Under Lou, most of the moves being made are for players he is familiar with minimal upside (Palmieri, JGP, Parise, Chara, Greene). These are nice players that don't move the needle. It does wonders when you acquire a top line player. It slides everybody down a slot into their appropriate role. But instead we have a bunch of good second and third liners. It's hard to win in this league without shooting talent. It's even harder to win in the league when you don't have a transition game from the defensive zone (Chara and Greene were in the top 6 last season).

Lou is probably the worst GM in the league when it comes to roster construction. He rarely recognizes holes and rarely fills them. It's bad. On top of that there is no prospect depth. This makes the Romanov trade bad IMO. Romanov is not yet a good top 4 dman. He was pretty bad miscast as a top pair dman on a bad team. But when you have so few assets, you don't trade your best asset for a guy who has not shown he can be what Toews was. As of now, he projects as a better skating Mayfield.

It's almost as if he has no interest in acquiring top level talent.

This last sentence is actually quite the truth. If geudreu had came out and said I want the islanders but they better pay me...do you think Lou wants to be put in that spot? Look at the penguins, everybody makes less than crosby who himself takes a pay cut. Penguins would also never sign gaudreau even if they had the cap space. Theres a pecking order. Tampa does it too. These are just the teams I'm familiar with. Islanders paid pelech and pollock the same salary to avoid hurt pride. If the islanders had signed panarin or geudreu Barzel agent is gona go "We all know my guys #'s are reduced 20% due to this system, so he is gona need same or more than these guys". Lou was probably happy to have taveres walk. The 1st thing he said when taveres walked was essentially "well that never worked out well for the team anyway so may not be a bad thing for us". So it's true Lou doesn't really see many players in this league as fitting into his machine. Hence low turnover

 

[Skip To My Lou]

It's almost as if he has no interest in acquiring top level talent.

This is an erroneous take. He offered more money than the Rangers for Panarin, he couldn't clear enough space for Gaudreau, and we know he was in on Stone and O'Reilly when they were on the trade market. It hasn't been for the lack of trying on Lou's part.

 

[IslandersFan17]

This is an erroneous take. He offered more money than the Rangers for Panarin, he couldn't clear enough space for Gaudreau, and we know he was in on Stone and O'Reilly when they were on the trade market. It hasn't been for the lack of trying on Lou's part.

At some point the trying needs to come to fruition otherwise it’s pretty much a useless juxtaposition.

 

[Skip To My Lou]

At some point the trying needs to come to fruition otherwise it’s pretty much a useless juxtaposition.

Don't get me wrong, I agree. But saying that he has no interest in bringing in high-end talent is very false.

 

[Throttle]

I don't agree. Barzal is extremely skilled. On a better roster he's easily an 80-90 point player. Look at what he did in his rookie year. Under Weight, he had no leash. Furthermore, he's an elite playmaker without an elite finisher on his line. If you put an elite shooter on Barzal's line, that's a dominant line.

Under Lou, most of the moves being made are for players he is familiar with minimal upside (Palmieri, JGP, Parise, Chara, Greene). These are nice players that don't move the needle. It does wonders when you acquire a top line player. It slides everybody down a slot into their appropriate role. But instead we have a bunch of good second and third liners. It's hard to win in this league without shooting talent. It's even harder to win in the league when you don't have a transition game from the defensive zone (Chara and Greene were in the top 6 last season).

Lou is probably the worst GM in the league when it comes to roster construction. He rarely recognizes holes and rarely fills them. It's bad. On top of that there is no prospect depth. This makes the Romanov trade bad IMO. Romanov is not yet a good top 4 dman. He was pretty bad miscast as a top pair dman on a bad team. But when you have so few assets, you don't trade your best asset for a guy who has not shown he can be what Toews was. As of now, he projects as a better skating Mayfield.

It's almost as if he has no interest in acquiring top level talent.

What’s his Cup total vs all those best GMs in the league at roster construction?

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Lou is probably the worst GM in the league when it comes to roster construction. He rarely recognizes holes and rarely fills them. It's bad. On top of that there is no prospect depth. This makes the Romanov trade bad IMO. Romanov is not yet a good top 4 dman. He was pretty bad miscast as a top pair dman on a bad team. But when you have so few assets, you don't trade your best asset for a guy who has not shown he can be what Toews was. As of now, he projects as a better skating Mayfield.

These are the takes I'm here for.

Presenting all sorts of hills to die on in very flat countryside.

 

[JPIsles18]

These are the takes I'm here for.

Presenting all sorts of hills to die on in very flat countryside.

If you equalize for ownership, you'd be hard pressed to find a GM who is worse than Lou at maximizing the allotted cap space. His best moves are actually resigning guys that were already on the team: Pelech, Pulock, Brock. Since taking over, he has done a very poor job of addressing very obvious needs.

Furthermore, this GM thought it be prudent to not only trade away puck moving defensemen Toews (Great) and Leddy (not so great), and replace them with a 45 year old Zdeno Chara. That shows a catastrophic misunderstanding of player value and need. This is also a GM that has acknowledged need for more scoring and has spent significant cap space on guys like Palmieri, JGP, and the entire 4th line. I know he's loyal, and that has something to do with it. However, player evaluation and filling needs are poor at this point in his career.

As far as Romanov goes. You don't think that it's a massive risk to take for a team with so few desirable assets? He has not shown yet that he can be a good top 4 defenseman on a good team. He is young and still developing, sure. But there is no reason to believe he has much offense to his game. The 13th overall pick is a heavy price to pay to take a gamble like this. I'd feel a lot differently if we had a better farm system, but we don't. Taking wild swings on players like Romanov is not what we should be doing. I hope I'm wrong.

Isles would be best to move on. However, ownership will realize this too late. Our next GM will be rebuilding. Hopefully, our next GM has less emotional attachment to familiar players who don't move the needle much.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

If you equalize for ownership, you'd be hard pressed to find a GM who is worse than Lou at maximizing the allotted cap space. His best moves are actually resigning guys that were already on the team: Pelech, Pulock, Brock. Since taking over, he has done a very poor job of addressing very obvious needs.

Are you kidding?

You're talking about a man who came in at a point of hopelessness while the face of the franchise walked away for nothing and, with but a few under the rader moves and the signing of a great coach, immediately had the team in the second round of the playoffs.

And despite constant contract juggling of players that were enthroned or up for new deals in the contract structure when he arrived, got them to the conference finals for two straight seasons thereafter. All the while, he went after big fish worth going for and managed to keep just about all his key pieces here in the process, even if a few had the leverage and got a pretty penny along the way.

In general, his doing all of this despite the unforeseen cap impacts of the pandemic and his management of the cap in a time of repeated non-existence of cap space has been downright masterful.

Furthermore, this GM thought it be prudent to not only trade away puck moving defensemen Toews (Great)

I just do not understand why people are so shortsighted as to see the moving of Toews in a vaccum.

He, Barzal, and Pulock were all RFAs in line for a considerable raise at a time where we hardly had cap space for even two of them. No-one wanted to see Toews moved. At the time, everyone knew he was gonna have to be the guy moved because he simply wasn't nearly as important as the other two while also having great value on the market. Getting two seconds was a very solid return, especially in light of him A) not yet being signed and B) not being able to add more contract to the cap.

Naturally a strong-skating, offensively oriented Dman is going to go bonkers on the fastest and most talented offensive team in the league. Do you or anyone else think he'd have been putting up 55+ points here the past few seasons?

Very likely not, but he sure as hell will on a pairing with Cale Makar and a PP featuring all sorts of lights out offensive players.

Heck, put our Sebastian Aho on that Aves team for 70 games and he's collecting 35+ points as well.

In short, the trading of Toews simply CANNOT be counted against Lamoriello when arguing how well he allots cap space. It cannot.

The move was actually VERY prudent when taking the full context into account.

But obviously, moving both Toews and Leddy were unavoidable cap casualties.

and Leddy (not so great), and replace them with a 45 year old Zdeno Chara. That shows a catastrophic misunderstanding of player value and need.

Naturally, if you're going to hate on a guy, you're going to interpret such a situation like that. And you'll even have our finish in the standings - of which Chara's inefficiencies only played a small, small role - as a backing of such belief.

For anyone who has been around the block a few times and has been following this league for 35+ years, it's pretty clear that Lou likely had a pretty good idea of who he wanted to bring in to add to that left side and either struck out or couldn't get a deal done in a manner that made sense.

He then added Chara banking on the team being solid and war-tested enough to have itself in the playoff picture for bulk of the season, buying himself time to find another answer in time for the playoff run.

This team then being out of the playoff picture by Christmas then made that plan entirely null and void. Proof? There's none. That just comes from understanding how this guy, and many other GMs, work.

And in a lost season, we saw Dobson turn into a 50-point Dman and he did that primarily with Chara on his side. So, that's one heck of a silver lining in that "catastrophic misunderstanding of player value".

This is also a GM that has acknowledged need for more scoring and has spent significant cap space on guys like Palmieri, JGP, and the entire 4th line. I know he's loyal, and that has something to do with it. However, player evaluation and filling needs are poor at this point in his career.

Hmmm... Sure, neither Pageau nor (especially) Palmieri have been guys that put us over the top, but both can be part of a winning recipe and Palmieri's level of failure (when he first came and then for a good 31 games last season) was absolutely unforeseen, even for those of us who weren't too fond of him as a scoring answer in the first place, myself included.

And you didn't mention Wahlstrom, who aside from Nelson has actually shown the greatest capacity for sniping, yet seemed to regress as the season went on, hitting a low point when finally packed together with Barzal. He was so bad those last 4 or 5 games with Matty that under other circumstances, you'd have to think long and hard about sending him back down to the AHL. At times, he was a disaster out there.

Based on his pure shooting abilities, he should have had 20 goals last season. He's clearly got some issues elsewhere and I suspect they're heavy in the confidence department.

As for the 4th line, it's not here for scoring. You know that. That line's value serves in an entirely different capacity.

Sure, everyone is bitching and moaning about having invested too much dough and years there, but if it is finally no longer able to do its job (Johnston included), all these contracts can easily be burried or moved aside.

Heck, who here would be surprised if i.e. Martin just outright retires and gets a spot in the organization if he finds himself slodging around out there like he did for much of last season?

As far as Romanov goes. You don't think that it's a massive risk to take for a team with so few desirable assets? He has not shown yet that he can be a good top 4 defenseman on a good team. He is young and still developing, sure. But there is no reason to believe he has much offense to his game.
The 13th overall pick is a heavy price to pay to take a gamble like this. I'd feel a lot differently if we had a better farm system, but we don't. Taking wild swings on players like Romanov is not what we should be doing. I hope I'm wrong.

Well, I'm a bit of a prospects guy, so as long as he's in North America (as opposed to Russia), I'm not worried about this move in the least now. My book on Romanov is that he'll add a considerable physical dynamic while being a very active player who is going to play important shorhanded minutes. I'm not worried about the offense. If you have a chief component of your defensive game only getting 20 points a season (which is what he'll round into in the coming years), that's fine. There are going to be other Dmen here to produce points.

And honestly, Dobson is the key in that department, but we've gotta be expecting a lot more out of Pulock. He can't be a player going 5-20-25 in a season. He needs to be much more than that. Pelech BTW quietly put up his best offensive season to date.

And if the established guys aren't rounding things out offensively, we're gonna need more out of a Salo incrementally in the coming years or someone else will need to be brought in.

Was our 13th in a solid, but average draft, worth sending out in order to bring in a defensively-oriented young NHLer who can potentially be a long-term ying to Dobson's yang plus a 4th?

In Romanov's case, I'm certainly gonna say yes. I see this deal paying off for us in spades over time.

Isles would be best to move on. However, ownership will realize this too late. Our next GM will be rebuilding. Hopefully, our next GM has less emotional attachment to familiar players who don't move the needle much.

It's just hard to take such an opinion all that seriously. You're entitled to it, but after this team saw the second round of the playoffs just once in like 15+ years, it's amazing that any fan can come to this kind of conclusion about a hall of famer mult-time Stanley Cup winner who stepped right in and had this team in the second round of the playoffs (and then beyond) for three straight years.

On top of it, this opinion is issued by a good chunk of the fanbase after one shoddy season with all sorts of extracurricular activities that stood as stones - or in several cases, bolders - in the road.

Feels a lot more like a "what have you done for me lately" cheap shot than any educated assessment.

This all said, the shoddy season led to a surprising firing of the very beloved coach, who was replaced by an assistant who has long been rumored as a very desired commodity on the "up-n-coming" head coaches list.

So, yes, the onus is now on Lamoriello to have examined everything correctly and get this team back on track for a cup run. That can be helped significantly with a big UFA dip, but is not dependent upon that.

This upcoming season will be decisive in Lou's chapter as Isles GM and as I mentioned in another recent post, if this team is out of the playoffs or just makes it in and gets knocked out rather easily right away, Lou will likely be losing his job. A new direction will likely be sought after.

And if it goes down like that, I'll be rooting for the next guy wholeheartedly, yet very, very, very thankful that Lou Lamoriello was part of this franchise and brought it back to respectability, doing so in one of the toughest markets in the league and while putting a whole lot of faith and respect in the people he worked with.

PROSPECTS/DEPTH:
- Salo will be a regular, bottom 4 Dman over the long run. It shouldn't be this upcoming season.
- Aho and Hutton are fine for spots 8-10.
- Raty is a blue-chipper, even if not really a top line talent.
- The Isles will get tangible value out of both Holmstrom and Dufour.
- Expect Isiah George to explode on the scene next season in London.
- Expect Tristan Lennox to be traded next season and go on a big run with the team he's added to.
- Odelius should be seen as a future top 5 Dman, likely a very solid #4 or #5. He's going to be an NHLer.
- Durandeau and Liukas are better prospects than people here know or think.
- Be it 5 picks or 7, the NYI selection process must become better.
- The signing of Paliafito should definitely indicate that this team will look to add more bodies via the free agent route, particularly out of Europe. His signing could have no other purpose. However, that may indicate that more future picks are on the line as trade assets. Going the European UFA route is most generally practiced by teams that traditionally don't draft a whole lot.

 

[Strummergas]

Are you kidding?

You're talking about a man who came in at a point of hopelessness while the face of the franchise walked away for nothing and, with but a few under the rader moves and the signing of a great coach, immediately had the team in the second round of the playoffs.

And despite constant contract juggling of players that were enthroned or up for new deals in the contract structure when he arrived, got them to the conference finals for two straight seasons thereafter. All the while, he went after big fish worth going for and managed to keep just about all his key pieces here in the process, even if a few had the leverage and got a pretty penny along the way.

In general, his doing all of this despite the unforeseen cap impacts of the pandemic and his management of the cap in a time of repeated non-existence of cap space has been downright masterful.



I just do not understand why people are so shortsighted as to see the moving of Toews in a vaccum.

He, Barzal, and Pulock were all RFAs in line for a considerable raise at a time where we hardly had cap space for even two of them. No-one wanted to see Toews moved. At the time, everyone knew he was gonna have to be the guy moved because he simply wasn't nearly as important as the other two while also having great value on the market. Getting two seconds was a very solid return, especially in light of him A) not yet being signed and B) not being able to add more contract to the cap.

Naturally a strong-skating, offensively oriented Dman is going to go bonkers on the fastest and most talented offensive team in the league. Do you or anyone else think he'd have been putting up 55+ points here the past few seasons?

Very likely not, but he sure as hell will on a pairing with Cale Makar and a PP featuring all sorts of lights out offensive players.

Heck, put our Sebastian Aho on that Aves team for 70 games and he's collecting 35+ points as well.

In short, the trading of Toews simply CANNOT be counted against Lamoriello when arguing how well he allots cap space. It cannot.

The move was actually VERY prudent when taking the full context into account.



Naturally, if you're going to hate on a guy, you're going to interpret such a situation like that. And you'll even have our finish in the standings - of which Chara's inefficiencies only played a small, small role - as a backing of such belief.

For anyone who has been around the block a few times and has been following this league for 35+ years, it's pretty clear that Lou likely had a pretty good idea of who he wanted to bring in to add to that left side and either struck out or couldn't get a deal done in a manner that made sense.

He then added Chara banking on the team being solid and war-tested enough to have itself in the playoff picture for bulk of the season, buying himself time to find another answer in time for the playoff run.

This team then being out of the playoff picture by Christmas then made that plan entirely null and void. Proof? There's none. That just comes from understanding how this guy, and many other GMs, work.

And in a lost season, we saw Dobson turn into a 50-point Dman and he did that primarily with Chara on his side. So, that's one heck of a silver lining in that "catastrophic misunderstanding of player value".



Hmmm... Sure, neither Pageau nor (especially) Palmieri have been guys that put us over the top, but both can be part of a winning recipe and Palmieri's level of failure (when he first came and then for a good 31 games last season) was absolutely unforeseen, even for those of us who weren't too fond of him as a scoring answer in the first place, myself included.

And you didn't mention Wahlstrom, who aside from Nelson has actually shown the greatest capacity for sniping, yet seemed to regress as the season went on, hitting a low point when finally packed together with Barzal. He was so bad those last 4 or 5 games with Matty that under other circumstances, you'd have to think long and hard about sending him back down to the AHL. At times, he was a disaster out there.

Based on his pure shooting abilities, he should have had 20 goals last season. He's clearly got some issues elsewhere and I suspect they're heavy in the confidence department.

As for the 4th line, it's not here for scoring. You know that. That line's value serves in an entirely different capacity.

Sure, everyone is bitching and moaning about having invested too much dough and years there, but if it is finally no longer able to do its job (Johnston included), all these contracts can easily be burried or moved aside.

Heck, who here would be surprised if i.e. Martin just outright retires and gets a spot in the organization if he finds himself slodging around out there like he did for much of last season?



Well, I'm a bit of a prospects guy, so as long as he's in North America (as opposed to Russia), I'm not worried about this move in the least now. My book on Romanov is that he'll add a considerable physical dynamic while being a very active player who is going to play important shorhanded minutes. I'm not worried about the offense. If you have a chief component of your defensive game only getting 20 points a season (which is what he'll round into in the coming years), that's fine. There are going to be other Dmen here to produce points.

And honestly, Dobson is the key in that department, but we've gotta be expecting a lot more out of Pulock. He can't be a player going 5-20-25 in a season. He needs to be much more than that. Pelech BTW quietly put up his best offensive season to date.

And if the established guys aren't rounding things out offensively, we're gonna need more out of a Salo incrementally in the coming years or someone else will need to be brought in.

Was our 13th in a solid, but average draft, worth sending out in order to bring in a defensively-oriented young NHLer who can potentially be a long-term ying to Dobson's yang plus a 4th?

In Romanov's case, I'm certainly gonna say yes. I see this deal paying off for us in spades over time.



It's just hard to take such an opinion all that seriously. You're entitled to it, but after this team saw the second round of the playoffs just once in like 15+ years, it's amazing that any fan can come to this kind of conclusion about a hall of famer mult-time Stanley Cup winner who stepped right in and had this team in the second round of the playoffs (and then beyond) for three straight years.

On top of it, this opinion is issued by a good chunk of the fanbase after one shoddy season with all sorts of extracurricular activities that stood as stones - or in several cases, bolders - in the road.

Feels a lot more like a "what have you done for me lately" cheap shot than any educated assessment.

This all said, the shoddy season led to a surprising firing of the very beloved coach, who was replaced by an assistant who has long been rumored as a very desired commodity on the "up-n-coming" head coaches list.

So, yes, the onus is now on Lamoriello to have examined everything correctly and get this team back on track for a cup run. That can be helped significantly with a big UFA dip, but is not dependent upon that.

This upcoming season will be decisive in Lou's chapter as Isles GM and as I mentioned in another recent post, if this team is out of the playoffs or just makes it in and gets knocked out rather easily right away, Lou will likely be losing his job. A new direction will likely be sought after.

And if it goes down like that, I'll be rooting for the next guy wholeheartedly, yet very, very, very thankful that Lou Lamoriello was part of this franchise and brought it back to respectability, doing so in one of the toughest markets in the league and while putting a whole lot of faith and respect in the people he worked with.

PROSPECTS/DEPTH:
- Salo will be a regular, bottom 4 Dman over the long run. It shouldn't be this upcoming season.
- Aho and Hutton are fine for spots 8-10.
- Raty is a blue-chipper, even if not really a top line talent.
- The Isles will get tangible value out of both Holmstrom and Dufour.
- Expect Isiaha George to explode on the scene next season in London.
- Expect Tristan Lennox to be traded next season and go on a big run with the team he's added to.
- Odelius should be seen as a future top 5 Dman, likely a very solid #4 or #5. He's going to be an NHLer.
- Durandeau and Liukas are better prospects than people here think.
- Be it 5 picks or 7, the NYI selection process must become better.
- The signing of Paliafito should definitely indicate that this team will look to add more bodies via the free agent route, particularly out of Europe. His signing could have no other purpose. However, that may indicate that more future picks are on the line as trade assets. Going the European UFA route is most generally practices by teams that traditionally don't draft a whole lot.

Thank you Chap. Your insight and levelheadedness are one of the few reasons I keep coming back to this place.

 

[seafoam]

Are you kidding?

You're talking about a man who came in at a point of hopelessness while the face of the franchise walked away for nothing and, with but a few under the rader moves and the signing of a great coach, immediately had the team in the second round of the playoffs.

And despite constant contract juggling of players that were enthroned or up for new deals in the contract structure when he arrived, got them to the conference finals for two straight seasons thereafter. All the while, he went after big fish worth going for and managed to keep just about all his key pieces here in the process, even if a few had the leverage and got a pretty penny along the way.

In general, his doing all of this despite the unforeseen cap impacts of the pandemic and his management of the cap in a time of repeated non-existence of cap space has been downright masterful.



I just do not understand why people are so shortsighted as to see the moving of Toews in a vaccum.

He, Barzal, and Pulock were all RFAs in line for a considerable raise at a time where we hardly had cap space for even two of them. No-one wanted to see Toews moved. At the time, everyone knew he was gonna have to be the guy moved because he simply wasn't nearly as important as the other two while also having great value on the market. Getting two seconds was a very solid return, especially in light of him A) not yet being signed and B) not being able to add more contract to the cap.

Naturally a strong-skating, offensively oriented Dman is going to go bonkers on the fastest and most talented offensive team in the league. Do you or anyone else think he'd have been putting up 55+ points here the past few seasons?

Very likely not, but he sure as hell will on a pairing with Cale Makar and a PP featuring all sorts of lights out offensive players.

Heck, put our Sebastian Aho on that Aves team for 70 games and he's collecting 35+ points as well.

In short, the trading of Toews simply CANNOT be counted against Lamoriello when arguing how well he allots cap space. It cannot.

The move was actually VERY prudent when taking the full context into account.



Naturally, if you're going to hate on a guy, you're going to interpret such a situation like that. And you'll even have our finish in the standings - of which Chara's inefficiencies only played a small, small role - as a backing of such belief.

For anyone who has been around the block a few times and has been following this league for 35+ years, it's pretty clear that Lou likely had a pretty good idea of who he wanted to bring in to add to that left side and either struck out or couldn't get a deal done in a manner that made sense.

He then added Chara banking on the team being solid and war-tested enough to have itself in the playoff picture for bulk of the season, buying himself time to find another answer in time for the playoff run.

This team then being out of the playoff picture by Christmas then made that plan entirely null and void. Proof? There's none. That just comes from understanding how this guy, and many other GMs, work.

And in a lost season, we saw Dobson turn into a 50-point Dman and he did that primarily with Chara on his side. So, that's one heck of a silver lining in that "catastrophic misunderstanding of player value".



Hmmm... Sure, neither Pageau nor (especially) Palmieri have been guys that put us over the top, but both can be part of a winning recipe and Palmieri's level of failure (when he first came and then for a good 31 games last season) was absolutely unforeseen, even for those of us who weren't too fond of him as a scoring answer in the first place, myself included.

And you didn't mention Wahlstrom, who aside from Nelson has actually shown the greatest capacity for sniping, yet seemed to regress as the season went on, hitting a low point when finally packed together with Barzal. He was so bad those last 4 or 5 games with Matty that under other circumstances, you'd have to think long and hard about sending him back down to the AHL. At times, he was a disaster out there.

Based on his pure shooting abilities, he should have had 20 goals last season. He's clearly got some issues elsewhere and I suspect they're heavy in the confidence department.

As for the 4th line, it's not here for scoring. You know that. That line's value serves in an entirely different capacity.

Sure, everyone is bitching and moaning about having invested too much dough and years there, but if it is finally no longer able to do its job (Johnston included), all these contracts can easily be burried or moved aside.

Heck, who here would be surprised if i.e. Martin just outright retires and gets a spot in the organization if he finds himself slodging around out there like he did for much of last season?



Well, I'm a bit of a prospects guy, so as long as he's in North America (as opposed to Russia), I'm not worried about this move in the least now. My book on Romanov is that he'll add a considerable physical dynamic while being a very active player who is going to play important shorhanded minutes. I'm not worried about the offense. If you have a chief component of your defensive game only getting 20 points a season (which is what he'll round into in the coming years), that's fine. There are going to be other Dmen here to produce points.

And honestly, Dobson is the key in that department, but we've gotta be expecting a lot more out of Pulock. He can't be a player going 5-20-25 in a season. He needs to be much more than that. Pelech BTW quietly put up his best offensive season to date.

And if the established guys aren't rounding things out offensively, we're gonna need more out of a Salo incrementally in the coming years or someone else will need to be brought in.

Was our 13th in a solid, but average draft, worth sending out in order to bring in a defensively-oriented young NHLer who can potentially be a long-term ying to Dobson's yang plus a 4th?

In Romanov's case, I'm certainly gonna say yes. I see this deal paying off for us in spades over time.



It's just hard to take such an opinion all that seriously. You're entitled to it, but after this team saw the second round of the playoffs just once in like 15+ years, it's amazing that any fan can come to this kind of conclusion about a hall of famer mult-time Stanley Cup winner who stepped right in and had this team in the second round of the playoffs (and then beyond) for three straight years.

On top of it, this opinion is issued by a good chunk of the fanbase after one shoddy season with all sorts of extracurricular activities that stood as stones - or in several cases, bolders - in the road.

Feels a lot more like a "what have you done for me lately" cheap shot than any educated assessment.

This all said, the shoddy season led to a surprising firing of the very beloved coach, who was replaced by an assistant who has long been rumored as a very desired commodity on the "up-n-coming" head coaches list.

So, yes, the onus is now on Lamoriello to have examined everything correctly and get this team back on track for a cup run. That can be helped significantly with a big UFA dip, but is not dependent upon that.

This upcoming season will be decisive in Lou's chapter as Isles GM and as I mentioned in another recent post, if this team is out of the playoffs or just makes it in and gets knocked out rather easily right away, Lou will likely be losing his job. A new direction will likely be sought after.

And if it goes down like that, I'll be rooting for the next guy wholeheartedly, yet very, very, very thankful that Lou Lamoriello was part of this franchise and brought it back to respectability, doing so in one of the toughest markets in the league and while putting a whole lot of faith and respect in the people he worked with.

PROSPECTS/DEPTH:
- Salo will be a regular, bottom 4 Dman over the long run. It shouldn't be this upcoming season.
- Aho and Hutton are fine for spots 8-10.
- Raty is a blue-chipper, even if not really a top line talent.
- The Isles will get tangible value out of both Holmstrom and Dufour.
- Expect Isiah George to explode on the scene next season in London.
- Expect Tristan Lennox to be traded next season and go on a big run with the team he's added to.
- Odelius should be seen as a future top 5 Dman, likely a very solid #4 or #5. He's going to be an NHLer.
- Durandeau and Liukas are better prospects than people here know or think.
- Be it 5 picks or 7, the NYI selection process must become better.
- The signing of Paliafito should definitely indicate that this team will look to add more bodies via the free agent route, particularly out of Europe. His signing could have no other purpose. However, that may indicate that more future picks are on the line as trade assets. Going the European UFA route is most generally practiced by teams that traditionally don't draft a whole lot.

What a post, the caffeine must have been flowing!

 

[Dutch Frost]

At some point the trying needs to come to fruition otherwise it’s pretty much a useless juxtaposition.

Yeah Garth had irons in the fire and kicked some tires but always ended eating Chipotle with Jack and Doug.

 

[JPIsles18]

Are you kidding?

You're talking about a man who came in at a point of hopelessness while the face of the franchise walked away for nothing and, with but a few under the rader moves and the signing of a great coach, immediately had the team in the second round of the playoffs.

And despite constant contract juggling of players that were enthroned or up for new deals in the contract structure when he arrived, got them to the conference finals for two straight seasons thereafter. All the while, he went after big fish worth going for and managed to keep just about all his key pieces here in the process, even if a few had the leverage and got a pretty penny along the way.

In general, his doing all of this despite the unforeseen cap impacts of the pandemic and his management of the cap in a time of repeated non-existence of cap space has been downright masterful.



I just do not understand why people are so shortsighted as to see the moving of Toews in a vaccum.

He, Barzal, and Pulock were all RFAs in line for a considerable raise at a time where we hardly had cap space for even two of them. No-one wanted to see Toews moved. At the time, everyone knew he was gonna have to be the guy moved because he simply wasn't nearly as important as the other two while also having great value on the market. Getting two seconds was a very solid return, especially in light of him A) not yet being signed and B) not being able to add more contract to the cap.

Naturally a strong-skating, offensively oriented Dman is going to go bonkers on the fastest and most talented offensive team in the league. Do you or anyone else think he'd have been putting up 55+ points here the past few seasons?

Very likely not, but he sure as hell will on a pairing with Cale Makar and a PP featuring all sorts of lights out offensive players.

Heck, put our Sebastian Aho on that Aves team for 70 games and he's collecting 35+ points as well.

In short, the trading of Toews simply CANNOT be counted against Lamoriello when arguing how well he allots cap space. It cannot.

The move was actually VERY prudent when taking the full context into account.



Naturally, if you're going to hate on a guy, you're going to interpret such a situation like that. And you'll even have our finish in the standings - of which Chara's inefficiencies only played a small, small role - as a backing of such belief.

For anyone who has been around the block a few times and has been following this league for 35+ years, it's pretty clear that Lou likely had a pretty good idea of who he wanted to bring in to add to that left side and either struck out or couldn't get a deal done in a manner that made sense.

He then added Chara banking on the team being solid and war-tested enough to have itself in the playoff picture for bulk of the season, buying himself time to find another answer in time for the playoff run.

This team then being out of the playoff picture by Christmas then made that plan entirely null and void. Proof? There's none. That just comes from understanding how this guy, and many other GMs, work.

And in a lost season, we saw Dobson turn into a 50-point Dman and he did that primarily with Chara on his side. So, that's one heck of a silver lining in that "catastrophic misunderstanding of player value".



Hmmm... Sure, neither Pageau nor (especially) Palmieri have been guys that put us over the top, but both can be part of a winning recipe and Palmieri's level of failure (when he first came and then for a good 31 games last season) was absolutely unforeseen, even for those of us who weren't too fond of him as a scoring answer in the first place, myself included.

And you didn't mention Wahlstrom, who aside from Nelson has actually shown the greatest capacity for sniping, yet seemed to regress as the season went on, hitting a low point when finally packed together with Barzal. He was so bad those last 4 or 5 games with Matty that under other circumstances, you'd have to think long and hard about sending him back down to the AHL. At times, he was a disaster out there.

Based on his pure shooting abilities, he should have had 20 goals last season. He's clearly got some issues elsewhere and I suspect they're heavy in the confidence department.

As for the 4th line, it's not here for scoring. You know that. That line's value serves in an entirely different capacity.

Sure, everyone is bitching and moaning about having invested too much dough and years there, but if it is finally no longer able to do its job (Johnston included), all these contracts can easily be burried or moved aside.

Heck, who here would be surprised if i.e. Martin just outright retires and gets a spot in the organization if he finds himself slodging around out there like he did for much of last season?



Well, I'm a bit of a prospects guy, so as long as he's in North America (as opposed to Russia), I'm not worried about this move in the least now. My book on Romanov is that he'll add a considerable physical dynamic while being a very active player who is going to play important shorhanded minutes. I'm not worried about the offense. If you have a chief component of your defensive game only getting 20 points a season (which is what he'll round into in the coming years), that's fine. There are going to be other Dmen here to produce points.

And honestly, Dobson is the key in that department, but we've gotta be expecting a lot more out of Pulock. He can't be a player going 5-20-25 in a season. He needs to be much more than that. Pelech BTW quietly put up his best offensive season to date.

And if the established guys aren't rounding things out offensively, we're gonna need more out of a Salo incrementally in the coming years or someone else will need to be brought in.

Was our 13th in a solid, but average draft, worth sending out in order to bring in a defensively-oriented young NHLer who can potentially be a long-term ying to Dobson's yang plus a 4th?

In Romanov's case, I'm certainly gonna say yes. I see this deal paying off for us in spades over time.



It's just hard to take such an opinion all that seriously. You're entitled to it, but after this team saw the second round of the playoffs just once in like 15+ years, it's amazing that any fan can come to this kind of conclusion about a hall of famer mult-time Stanley Cup winner who stepped right in and had this team in the second round of the playoffs (and then beyond) for three straight years.

On top of it, this opinion is issued by a good chunk of the fanbase after one shoddy season with all sorts of extracurricular activities that stood as stones - or in several cases, bolders - in the road.

Feels a lot more like a "what have you done for me lately" cheap shot than any educated assessment.

This all said, the shoddy season led to a surprising firing of the very beloved coach, who was replaced by an assistant who has long been rumored as a very desired commodity on the "up-n-coming" head coaches list.

So, yes, the onus is now on Lamoriello to have examined everything correctly and get this team back on track for a cup run. That can be helped significantly with a big UFA dip, but is not dependent upon that.

This upcoming season will be decisive in Lou's chapter as Isles GM and as I mentioned in another recent post, if this team is out of the playoffs or just makes it in and gets knocked out rather easily right away, Lou will likely be losing his job. A new direction will likely be sought after.

And if it goes down like that, I'll be rooting for the next guy wholeheartedly, yet very, very, very thankful that Lou Lamoriello was part of this franchise and brought it back to respectability, doing so in one of the toughest markets in the league and while putting a whole lot of faith and respect in the people he worked with.

PROSPECTS/DEPTH:
- Salo will be a regular, bottom 4 Dman over the long run. It shouldn't be this upcoming season.
- Aho and Hutton are fine for spots 8-10.
- Raty is a blue-chipper, even if not really a top line talent.
- The Isles will get tangible value out of both Holmstrom and Dufour.
- Expect Isiah George to explode on the scene next season in London.
- Expect Tristan Lennox to be traded next season and go on a big run with the team he's added to.
- Odelius should be seen as a future top 5 Dman, likely a very solid #4 or #5. He's going to be an NHLer.
- Durandeau and Liukas are better prospects than people here know or think.
- Be it 5 picks or 7, the NYI selection process must become better.
- The signing of Paliafito should definitely indicate that this team will look to add more bodies via the free agent route, particularly out of Europe. His signing could have no other purpose. However, that may indicate that more future picks are on the line as trade assets. Going the European UFA route is most generally practiced by teams that traditionally don't draft a whole lot.

I appreciate your nuanced take on this matter. Much respect and appreciation for the post. I agree with some of what you said. Here are where my disagreements lie.

1) Hiring Trotz was his single greatest move. Trotz was the right coach for the job with this collection of players. It was fortunate that he was available, and that Lou recognized it to be the right move. However, the team that made runs were primarily made by the players that Snow had brought in.

2) I don't really understand your Toews point. From a transition game standpoint and looking at xGF%, he was the best dman on the Isles. Sure, it's arguable if he actually was the best dman, because Pulock/Pelech saw top competition. However, even if you ignore the 55 points, he was very obviously a high end top 4 dman. This is accentuated on a team like the Avs. Now, if you look at Lou's quotes at the time of the trade, he was afraid of the number Toews was coming in at (it was 4.1). IMO, if he actually knew what he had with Toews, he would've shifted his focus on moving Leddy even if he had to eat salary or sweeten the deal. Leddy, just now got 4x4. It's hard to believe that there was no way to move him without eating salary/sweetening the deal and keep Toews. Say the Isles moved Leddy and ate 1.5 mil, signed Toews to 4x3. They would essentially be trading away Leddy at 4x2 and keeping Toews at 5.5x3. I believe Leddy would've had a market and would have made more sense to move. However, if you read Lou's comments, he did not feel Toews was worth the money he eventually received. This was a miscalculation on his part. Once you determine a player is worth keeping, you make it happen especially at such a cheap cost. Whatever evaluation tool he used, he didn't feel Toews was worth it. Biggest blunder of his tenure in my opinion.

3) This is a bit of excuse making on your part regarding the Chara situation. The Isles are a Stanley Cup Contender going into last season based on previous seasons. They put out a lineup with 45 year old Zdeno Chara in their top 4. I don't care that he struck out or was unable to get the guy he wanted. You simply cannot do this. He doubled down, by also having Andy Greene on the 3rd pair. When the signing was first made, I assumed it would be a rotation between the two on the bottom pairing. As much as I don't love the Romanov trade (hoping I'm wrong), at least he now acknowledges that you need competent NHL defensemen in at least your top 4. It is inexcusable that we went into a season where the Isles were poised to be a contender with two fringe NHL defensemen in their top 6. There is no amount of excuse making that makes this OK. Lou has a strong bias towards players he knows and veterans. This bias cost us in this case.

4) What Lou did was bring structure and accountability. He turned this franchise into a respectable one. He did the same in Toronto. He's very good at that. Where he's lacking is personnel decisions. I think they're quite poor in comparison to the other GMs in the league. Especially the most successful ones. This is why I doubt trades like the Romanov one. A guy who hasn't shown much at the professional level via underlying metrics and still a work in progress via the eye test. However, I'd have a much better degree of confidence if it was a trade made by Sakic or Yzerman than a Lou.


Overall, he's been a positive influence on the franchise from an accountability standpoint. But as far as assets and cap management, he has doubled down on middle of the lineup players (Bailey, Palmieri, JGP) and an expensive and ineffective 4th line. Unless he pulls a rabbit out of his hat, this team is aging fast with a closing window. Last season we had no chance because we only had 4 NHL dmen on the team. However, we'll hear about COVID and long road trip. Bottom line is, the roster was mismanaged then and continues to be now. Perhaps he finds a way to actually improve the roster over the next few weeks.

 

[IslandersFan17]

Yeah Garth had irons in the fire and kicked some tires but always ended eating Chipotle with Jack and Doug.

Um what

 

[Islanders4Cups]

If you equalize for ownership, you'd be hard pressed to find a GM who is worse than Lou at maximizing the allotted cap space. His best moves are actually resigning guys that were already on the team: Pelech, Pulock, Brock. Since taking over, he has done a very poor job of addressing very obvious needs.

Furthermore, this GM thought it be prudent to not only trade away puck moving defensemen Toews (Great) and Leddy (not so great), and replace them with a 45 year old Zdeno Chara. That shows a catastrophic misunderstanding of player value and need. This is also a GM that has acknowledged need for more scoring and has spent significant cap space on guys like Palmieri, JGP, and the entire 4th line. I know he's loyal, and that has something to do with it. However, player evaluation and filling needs are poor at this point in his career.

As far as Romanov goes. You don't think that it's a massive risk to take for a team with so few desirable assets? He has not shown yet that he can be a good top 4 defenseman on a good team. He is young and still developing, sure. But there is no reason to believe he has much offense to his game. The 13th overall pick is a heavy price to pay to take a gamble like this. I'd feel a lot differently if we had a better farm system, but we don't. Taking wild swings on players like Romanov is not what we should be doing. I hope I'm wrong.

Isles would be best to move on. However, ownership will realize this too late. Our next GM will be rebuilding. Hopefully, our next GM has less emotional attachment to familiar players who don't move the needle much.

If you live your life in a vacuum and not consider recent history and the roster as it was when Lou came here, then so be it.
Let’s face it, Lou had two choices when he came.

1) Tear it all down and go on a 4+ year rebuild with all those uncertainties which most everyone expected and even supported
2) Try to build on the flawed core in place and win now

Lou came very close to winning now. He was just about the only one who saw it
He had 3 very good years with this team improving year over year and one very bad year.

Lou has now doubled down on this team and that is his decision to make. He has earned it and the respect to make it.

You cannot have the previous 3 seasons and expect a new team to magically appear and win now. The only ones that should have a gripe are those who would be happy with 4 consecutive bottom of the league finishes with potentially no end in sight as it often goes with rebuilds and give back the first three years of Lou’s reign here.

I would not.

 

[Dutch Frost]

Um what

those were actual Garth Snow words during trade deadlines and FA periods. We have irons in the fire and we always kick tires to see if a trade is possible.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

 

[YearlyLottery]

If you live your life in a vacuum and not consider recent history and the roster as it was when Lou came here, then so be it.
Let’s face it, Lou had two choices when he came.

1) Tear it all down and go on a 4+ year rebuild with all those uncertainties which most everyone expected and even supported
2) Try to build on the flawed core in place and win now

Lou came very close to winning now. He was just about the only one who saw it
He had 3 very good years with this team improving year over year and one very bad year.

Lou has now doubled down on this team and that is his decision to make. He has earned it and the respect to make it.

You cannot have the previous 3 seasons and expect a new team to magically appear and win now. The only ones that should have a gripe are those who would be happy with 4 consecutive bottom of the league finishes with potentially no end in sight as it often goes with rebuilds and give back the first three years of Lou’s reign here.

I would not.

So many good points in here. Lou was just about the only one who saw that first post Tavares team competing. How quickly we forget right? Go take a look at the draft thread I made the day after Tavares left... NOBODY felt this team was competing, let alone going on the three year run they had.

Lou has doubled down and he has earned it. You are completely right. But as long as it takes to earn the chance to double down it takes half the amount of time to lose that respect if he f***s up.