Is this the worst Leaf squad in team history??

[Stephen]

A group of us burned my Leafs jacket as an offering to the hockey gods after a game in early 1985 they were that bad. I think that's how we got Wendel.

Do it again, we need McDavid now...

 

[ironhorse384]

Even my friends who are Habs fans don't even laugh at us any more.

You know it's bad when hab fans stop ridiculing you.

 

[DesertHombre]

I've been watching the Leafs since the mid 1960's and even though they haven't won a cup since '67, they have always played with pride and grit. In the 1960's I loved watching Dave Keon, Ron Ellis, Norm Ulman, Bob Baun, Jacques Plante. In susequent decades Sittler, McDonald , Salming and Tiger Williams, Al Iafrate, Steve Thomas, Mike Palmateer, Doug Gilmour, Wendel Clark, Curtis Joeseph, tie Domi, Darcy Tucker, Gary Roberts......all played with Grit and pride.
This team IMO is the worst in my 50 years of watching the Leafs. This team lacks leadership, pride, grit and really has no identity, other than being a loser.

 

[TheLeafsBro]

Only Leafs stuff I still have are a Gilmour jersey from 1993(I'm not burning that) and my dark blue with crest Leafs grocery carrier bag which always gets comments at Metro the day after losses.

Listen man I know you don't want to burn that Gilmour Jersey but getting McDavid is going to take an extra special sacrifice to the Gods. It's for the best.

 

[hfman]

I loved watching Dave Keon, Ron Ellis, Norm Ulman, Bob Baun, Jacques Plante. In susequent decades Sittler, McDonald , Salming and Tiger Williams, Al Iafrate, Steve Thomas, Mike Palmateer, Doug Gilmour, Wendel Clark, Curtis Joeseph, tie Domi, Darcy Tucker, Gary Roberts......all played with Grit and pride.
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Gary Roberts.. and that's pretty well where it stopped, wasn't it? Who the hell do we remember since him? Aside from Sundin who hung around a little longer after him... what players have we had since Roberts that we will remember 10 years from now? None man. There are ZERO players to remember in the last 12 freaking years. I won't be able to name a single player from 2004-2015 that was memorable. That's the most f-ed up thing about this whole pity party

 

[Stephen]

You know it's bad when hab fans stop ridiculing you.

It's bad when they give you pep talks and their star player talks about how much good a quality team in Toronto would do for the league.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Gary Roberts.. and that's pretty well where it stopped, wasn't it? Who the hell do we remember since him? Aside from Sundin who hung around a little longer after him... what players have we had since Roberts that we will remember 10 years from now? None man. There are ZERO players to remember in the last 12 freaking years. I won't be able to name a single player from 2004-2015 that was memorable. That's the most f-ed up thing about this whole pity party

Exactly, there has been not one memorable Leaf since Sundin was forced out in 2008. From 2005-2008, even if we weren't making the playoffs, we still have some great individual memories of Mats hitting milestones and breaking records. Since 2008, nothing.

If only the Leafs could hang onto their 4-1 lead for just 10 minutes. If only we had beat Boston in that game 7. It would've been even more satisfying than any of our series victories with Quinn. Who could forget Kessel's heroics that series. Who could forget JVR's goal where he acted like a maniac on his backside, quite possibly the greatest individual effort Leaf goal I've ever seen. Reimer would still have been seen as the man who led us to victory over the hated Bruins. Even Kadri would be forever remembered for his game 7 insurance goal. If the Leafs had just held on for 10 measly minutes, we would've had a whole new generation of memorable players even if we had been swept in the 2nd round. But the Leafs couldn't even do that, so none of Kessel's or JVR's or Reimer's efforts that series means anything. It robbed us of any memorable player since Sundin. And that was the day I lost any hope in this current core.

 

[scooter87]

This is the least like-able team to have ever pulled on a jersey. I cannot summon up even the slightest amount of effort to watch this garbage

 

[stymie]

Dougie Gilmour & Rod Ramage led way worse teams than these clowns.

 

[hfman]

Exactly, there has been not one memorable Leaf since Sundin was forced out in 2008. From 2005-2008, even if we weren't making the playoffs, we still have some great individual memories of Mats hitting milestones and breaking records. Since 2008, nothing.

If only the Leafs could hang onto their 4-1 lead for just 10 minutes. If only we had beat Boston in that game 7. It would've been even more satisfying than any of our series victories with Quinn. Who could forget Kessel's heroics that series. Who could forget JVR's goal where he acted like a maniac on his backside, quite possibly the greatest individual effort Leaf goal I've ever seen. Reimer would still have been seen as the man who led us to victory over the hated Bruins. Even Kadri would be forever remembered for his game 7 insurance goal. If the Leafs had just held on for 10 measly minutes, we would've had a whole new generation of memorable players even if we had been swept in the 2nd round. But the Leafs couldn't even do that, so none of Kessel's or JVR's or Reimer's efforts that series means anything. It robbed us of any memorable player since Sundin. And that was the day I lost any hope in this current core.

you know... for your own sake, I hope you aren't still dwelling on that LOL. Time passes... it was a disaterous game but there are countless similar games in other professional sports... in about 4-6 months this Leafs team will be emptied out and re-filled yet again... most of the players that played in that game won't be here anymore.. move on my friend, it's only a game played by spoiled millionaires

But speaking of that game 7 - I would say that was THE beginning of this current situation. THAT is where all this started. Right from that night. It has slowly snowballed into this bullsh- scenario we're currently in.

Anyone agree? That's where it all started?

 

[BayStreetBully]

you know... for your own sake, I hope you aren't still dwelling on that LOL. Time passes... it was a disaterous game but there are countless similar games in other professional sports... in about 4-6 months this Leafs team will be emptied out and re-filled yet again... most of the players that played in that game won't be here anymore.. move on my friend, it's only a game played by spoiled millionaires

But speaking of that game 7 - I would say that was THE beginning of this current situation. THAT is where all this started. Right from that night. It has slowly snowballed into this bullsh- scenario we're currently in.

Anyone agree? That's where it all started?

Oh, I'm certainly not dwelling. Particularly not on that one game. I don't have the time to follow the Leafs as closely as I used to, even if I wanted to. But the Leafs aren't giving me any reasons to even want to. It's not just that one game. It's through years of incompetence in treating it's legends badly (Sundin) and continuing to make terrible trades that don't make sense at the time, for a quick fix (dating at least a decade back to the Rask trade. Even if management put their faith in Pogge, they should've kept both in case one doesn't pan out. It was way too early in guessing who would succeed). I was already angry with the Leafs by the time we played Boston in the 2013 playoffs. That game 7 just sealed the deal for me. I'll make time for the Leafs come playoff time, though that's at least another year away. Until then, I'll watch highlights when they win and continue to follow them from afar. I simply have too much going on in my own life to put in any more time.

 

[Durkin67]

As someone who saw the 80's teams I would say this is the most gutless,laziest team ever.

I'll second that. Even though doing so has called my "fandom" into question by some on this forum.

 

[hfman]

I'll second that. Even though doing so has called my "fandom" into question by some on this forum.

worse than the 80s, man. I said it before and I say it again. We remember players from the 80s like Sittler, Clark, Salming, Vaive and Leeman for starters. They had heart and grit and came to play. The 80s teams made the playoffs 6 times and the 2nd round twice. Doesn't matter how many points were required; it was an even playing field then like it is today. At least the city of Toronto could say "We're in the playoffs!!" six times that decade. Today's Leafs? NO playoffs. We remember ZERO players for the last 10 years. Have we had anyone like Sittler, Clark, Salming, Vaive or Leeman? F-no. Nobody. Go ahead and name ONE player. There have been no decent players for here for more than 10 F-ING years. Playoffs? F-all. 7 games in 12 years and nobody cares to remember it. This is a REAL joke; THIS is the real "joke era" of the Leafs. We're all experiencing it right now. 80s were bad in so many other ways, but THIS era is worse in terms of on-ice productivity.

So. What's worse in terms of on-ice team productivity? 80s or now? Just read a few lines above for your answer. We're all witnessing something special here

 

[67Cup]

They are definitely not the worst. Some of the Ballard era teams were far less talented. But they may be the weirdest and hardest to figure. And you could make a case that they are the franchise's all-time underachievers.

 

[hfman]

They are definitely not the worst. Some of the Ballard era teams were far less talented. But they may be the weirdest and hardest to figure. And you could make a case that they are the franchise's all-time underachievers.

it doesnt't matter if they were less talented man!!


Look at THIS team right now!! Look at the talent on it...Kessel.. Kadri... JVR... PLENTY of talent and they proved it a few months ago with a 10-game winning streak and being the highest scoring team in the NHL!!!! Being the highest scoring team in the league is no joke... that is a serious accomplishment that all other teams had to deal with

So what the hell does talent have to do with this? Look at these bums now... they're every bit as talented as they were 2 months ago but are all now tainted, garbage and written-off goods... waiting to be shipped the F- out of here.. they've all quit on themselves and are nothing but washed up losers while they're here.. ALL of them... they ALL can't wait to be traded and are playing that way to ensure they get what they want: a trade out of this hell hole apparently known as the world's "hockey capital"... LOL on that...

so this isn't about talent. The 80s had its PLENTY share of futility... but it had MORE bright spots than this era does. I won't list the bright spots again; just read a few posts above to see the positive points about the 80s. The 80s was garbage, yes, but also had its fair share of "hope" if you will. Does this era have any f-ing hope? None, man. NONE. And it hasn't had "hope" in the last 12 years. Some of you 80s guys are refusing to take a closer look at what's been happening here since 2004, and more specifically since Rogers/Bell took over which has been the final nail in the coffin, as so many had predicted when that happened. And yes, I'm also an 80s guy... and no one can convince me that the 80s were worse in terms of "hope" or "excitement". This "on-ice" product today and of the last 10 years is worse than what was iced from 1980-1990. You guys are constantly allowing the off-ice antics (Ballard's antics) to get in the way of your "on-ice" apprasisals. Forget Ballard, and review the year-by-year stats. Yes, some years were a total joke, but there were quite a few more "successful" years in comparison to today. Even though this debate has been going on for some time now, no one has been able to show statistics that prove otherwise, everyone allows the Ballard stories to get in the way

 

[Tak7]

Worst Leaf squad? Hell no.

"On paper" they are much better than this, which fuels the anger & outcry amongst the fans. If this was a bottom feeder team continuously finishing where they are expected to finish, people wouldn't be nearly as upset. But they rightfully see a team who's core has badly under performed here and are responding as a result

 

[hoglund]

Yes, we may have 22 wins in 52 games so far, so, it might be hard to argue it. But, let's look at facts here.

This team has proven that the only way they can score goals consistently is by cheating defensively and leaving Bernier oir Reimer to stop 40-50 shots per game

Now, under Horachek they are playing a much more defensive minded system and they couldn't score if their careers depended on it.

These 2 points really speak volumes and it shows me that this team is ALOT worse then their record suggests.

I remember in the 80's they had a record of 21-49-10 and STILL made the playoffs, back then if you missed the playoffs you REALLY did suck because only 6 teams missed, so this is NOT the worst team, not even close.

 

[hullsy47]

As someone who saw the 80's teams I would say this is the most gutless,laziest team ever.

i agree at least the 80.s squads had some balls ,this team may win lessthan 10 games the rest of the way ffs

 

[mariemarie]

with all those bad contracts , yes its the worst

 

[hockeystick89]

Worst Leaf squad? Hell no.

"On paper" they are much better than this, which fuels the anger & outcry amongst the fans. If this was a bottom feeder team continuously finishing where they are expected to finish, people wouldn't be nearly as upset. But they rightfully see a team who's core has badly under performed here and are responding as a result

"On paper" we had one of the best defensive units in the league a number of years back when Burke signed Komi and Beauch. There were Leafs fans creating threads on the main boards bragging about how great the Leafs' D was "on paper".

"On paper" is a joke. These guys will be judged on how they preform on "the ice" and "the standings".

What a joke.

 

[613Leafer]

2013 would have been the perfect season to blow this thing up.

-Bozak, MacArthur, and Lupul were all pending UFAs with relatively big value
-Kessel/Phaneuf only had one more year remaining on their contracts, so they would have had big value for still having term, and been easier to move with their smaller caphits and only 1.5 years instead of 6-7 remaining
-2013 was a DEEP draft for centres. MacKinnon, Barkov, Lindholm, Monahan, Horvat, Domi, Lazar, etc
-It was a short season, so we would have only had to sit through a couple months of crap instead of a full year

Sticking with this core since then has only seen us trade away more picks, have zero short-term success, and make most players harder to move. Lupuls value has plummeted compared to what he would have gotten had we traded him going into that season as an example

6th year now with Kessel/Bozak/Phaneuf, zero short-term success, bleak future barring us blowing the thing skyhigh, spending to the cap regularly, trading picks regularly, etc. Its been the worst stretch ive lived through, and probably the worst stretch from a big market big money team that I can think of in the past 20 years.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Its been the worst stretch ive lived through, and probably the worst stretch from a big market big money team that I can think of in the past 20 years.

And there's no silver lining really. Yes they may get a decent draft pick, but the farm is weak, noone knows what Shannahan wants going forward, Clarkson will be here, Nonis is still here...... sad state of affairs

I guess one of the positives I've heard (from Friedmann), is that the Leafs were willing to move Phaneuf to LA

 

[Al14]

As someone who saw the 80's teams I would say this is the most gutless,laziest team ever.

As someone who saw the 60's, 70's, and 80's, I'd say this is in fact the most gutless, laziest, and, heartless team ever.

 

[RLF]

I'm not sure if it is the worst team they have ever had, but it is the one I dislike the most. I like few players on this team for the same reasons as others...no heart, desire, grit...most don't like like they even care.

Funny thing is, the ones who seem to care...Santo, Winnik, Franson are the ones most want to see go so a rebuild can start.

The possibility of Kessel, Bozak, JVR all still here as our top line moving forward is just depressing to me.

 

[67Cup]

Hfman, just calm down. You don't need to berate people who see things and phrase things a bit differently from you. We all agree these Leafs are very bad. But they won't finish dead last in the League, which they have done before. They actually have some assets which could either be used properly or converted into players that could help the franchise. You talk about hope in the 80's. The Leafs have also recently hired some bright younger people who haven't yet had a chance to make their mark with the team. They're professionals. To compare this to the Ballard era, the trainer isn't the guy who repaired Harold Ballard's boat. Ballard hired the guy to trim his toenails, liked the way he did so and hired him for the Leafs. The present day Leafs are really bad, but they are not mired in that level of buffoonery.

My Leaf watching goes back to the 58-59 season when the Leafs were emerging from another period of mediocrity. As I said before, the present on ice edition may be the weirdest lot and they sure look like the most under-achieving I can recall. You do understand that's not a compliment? But no, I don't think this group is the worst.

My own opinion is that these Leafs are terminally streaky. They could go on another winning streak, as they did earlier in the season. I just hope that any such streak doesn't give reason for a false"we've turned the corner" optimism and mask the need for a proper rebuild.