Is there no way we can move Josh Bailey?

[charlie1]

Stop giving away Bailey for a bag of pucks.

 

[Aucoin3]

After yesterday I dont see any real reason or rush to move Bailey

 

[kallur]

I agree that we should not give away Bailey. Bailey had 38 points last year. That ranks as 40th for left wings (from NHL.com) . If you figure the first 30 are first line players. Bailey produced like a 2nd line left wing. He is just more of a playmaker than a scorer. He is a good fit if you put him on a line with some scorers.

 

[Bones45]

This might be just what Bailey needs.

Im the first one on the "Bailey blows" bandwagon, but I may have changed my tune a bit.

Before this summers deals, we concentrated on how great JT and Okie have been, and then ultimately, how horrible and lacking the rest of the team is.

Bailey is in the bullseye.


Now that we have sured up G, offensive depth and EVEN THE DEFENSE, it may have bought Bailey some more time. Every year, there has been the question about "is this the year for Bailey to break out?".

ya know what? Right now, I don't care about him as there are so many other things to discuss and debate. And they are all good things.

Perhaps having bailey in the background will help him this year.

We can only hope.

Now--- back to that optimism!!!

 

[CaptDenisPotvin]

Here's the thing, i dislike bailey because of what he gives this team compared to where he was drafted...which admittedly is unfair to the player. BUT because he was drafted in the 1st round i think cappy/snow will always try to give him top six minutes which i dont believe he has earned at this point. Im fine with Bailey on our 3rd line...nothing more. Im also fine with moving him but i dont think i would like the return enough to actually want the trade to happen. So for me, hes not moveable because the return wouldn't make sense to the Isles...but im gonna be one frustrated fan if i see him any higher than a 3rd or 4th line player this year.

Hopefully that makes so sort of sense.

 

[BillD]

Snow sees Bailey as an asset that he wants to get maximum return on.
There have been reports that the coaches and management have talked to Josh about their dissatisfaction with his game, and they want to see more from him. If he can play to the level of their satisfaction there is no reason to move him.
I feel bad for him, he sounds like a nice kid and he says the things which make me think he is frustrated and wants to do better, do what the team expects of him, only he does not seem capable of it.
If Snow would accept 2nd round draft picks he might feel he is giving Bailey away, but he unloads his salary and has waiting youngsters ready to take that spot. It is just a matter of cutting his losses and finding a team to take his cap hit.

 

[airbus220]

Here's the thing, i dislike bailey because of what he gives this team compared to where he was drafted...which admittedly is unfair to the player. BUT because he was drafted in the 1st round i think cappy/snow will always try to give him top six minutes which i dont believe he has earned at this point. Im fine with Bailey on our 3rd line...nothing more. Im also fine with moving him but i dont think i would like the return enough to actually want the trade to happen. So for me, hes not moveable because the return wouldn't make sense to the Isles...but im gonna be one frustrated fan if i see him any higher than a 3rd or 4th line player this year.

Hopefully that makes so sort of sense.

With Boychuk and Leddy they added 7M in salary and only lost 600k in Brennan. Nobody should expect now that they invest more. The return if they trade someone would be budget relief and then maybe there is room to add someone else. Interesting now what will happen the next days.

 

[bstash19]

i think bailey knows the leash is short on him this year, with the added guys, and upcoming ones. i think he has a solid season this year. i never understood all the hate, he was never going to be a franchise player.

look at some of the players drafted behind him.

Cody Hodgson 2nd line winger making 4.25m (and not very good defensively)
Kyle Beach never made nhl
Colten Teubert played 24 games 3 years ago
Zach Boychuk 9 goals in 100 games with 3 teams

 

[Isles5513]

You think 3.3m is "horrible" for a 0.5 ppg player who is strong defensively?

I will admit I used a poor choice of words, but I still think it is a really bad contract. He may be .5 PPG, but how many of those points came off 2nd assists where all you need to do is pass it to a teamate and and your other 2 line mates could do all the work, and he could still get a point. The same could be said for a primary assist. Jay, I know your a stats guy, is there any type of advanced stat that measures that? Not trying to insult you or be an ******* or anything I'm just curious. I feel like his value is low because of that, and the fact you are giving that much money to someone who is a 3rd liner.

 

[Seph]

I will admit I used a poor choice of words, but I still think it is a really bad contract. He may be .5 PPG, but how many of those points came off 2nd assists where all you need to do is pass it to a teamate and and your other 2 line mates could do all the work, and he could still get a point. The same could be said for a primary assist. Jay, I know your a stats guy, is there any type of advanced stat that measures that? Not trying to insult you or be an ******* or anything I'm just curious. I feel like his value is low because of that, and the fact you are giving that much money to someone who is a 3rd liner.

Bailey was third on the team in ES primary assists, with 14, only one fewer than Tavares and Okposo, and 5 more than the next highest (Grabner and Nielsen with 9 each).

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...9&type=individual&sort=ifassists&sortdir=DESC

 

[Isles5513]

Bailey was third on the team in ES primary assists, with 14, only one fewer than Tavares and Okposo, and 5 more than the next highest (Grabner and Nielsen with 9 each).

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...9&type=individual&sort=ifassists&sortdir=DESC

Thanks for that stat, Seph. That makes me feel somewhat better about his contract, but it still isn't good. Value wise around the league, I'm not sure what he could fetch because his value is at a low. I don't like selling low.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Bailey was third on the team in ES primary assists, with 14, only one fewer than Tavares and Okposo, and 5 more than the next highest (Grabner and Nielsen with 9 each).

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...9&type=individual&sort=ifassists&sortdir=DESC

His obvious potential has compounded the issue. That this potential has emerged from time to time - commonly when Tavares goes down with injury and they lean on Josh with more responsibility doesn't help either. So he can tap his potential, but only when he has additional responsibility... That is the kind of luxury usually reserved for someone on Tavares' level.

Provided the information Garth leaked about exploring trading Bailey I imagine that Josh's window to stick is closing.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

If the main issue with Bailey is getting the production out of him we expected based on his draft position, he should be put in a role where he will have the opportunity to thrive.

With alot of pressure off our forwards who had to compensate for our mediocre blueline. I feel this is Baileys year to prove himself. The worst that happens is he gets demoted, in the best case scenario, he can stay with JT-KO on the top line if he meshes.

I think he should be on JT's wing or at least get the shot at the beginning of the season. If he impresses early on and we still need to move him, he'll have increased value. It's fairly low risk.

 

[OlTimeHockey]

Josh has an open net and passes across the slot. That play is burned into my head for good! BUT.....he's as solid a defensive forward as they come {almost as solid as Nielson}. He's smart. He never makes mistakes in the neutral or defensive zone. He just has a FEAR of the opposing crease.

On line 3? Solid as it gets. I don't wanna hear his Corsi or his draft ranking or salary. None of that ***** matters.

What matters is when we're facing a tough team, we have a one goal lead......we have someone we TRUST to take one of the shifts in a reduced bench to not just keep the lead but get the puck into a safe place.

Bailey on one line with Grabner, Nielson with Nelson or Clutterbuck.....you need defensive guys who can protect leads. Period. It's part of hockey.

It just sounds like some would demand a puck rushing exciting guy be in there when Hockey 101 demands a solid three zone guy be available as much as possible.


I said this before....Brad Lauer disappointed. He never lived up to his drafting. He just played a solid role for us instead. Bailey can play a much needed role until we get something better.

 

[13th Floor]

With Boychuk and Leddy they added 7M in salary and only lost 600k in Brennan. Nobody should expect now that they invest more. The return if they trade someone would be budget relief and then maybe there is room to add someone else. Interesting now what will happen the next days.

Before yesterday's moves, you said that there is no way the Isles would invest more or move Bailey because they want to stay right at the floor. Then they add two players and 6.5 MM in roster space while clearly and purposefully not trading roster players. Now, there is no way they would invest more and we should actually expect them to trade away salary.

At what point do we just see through your posts as being ridiculous? You were called out for proclaiming as fact that they wouldn't make moves because we are a budget team and people said that is just your opinion and to stop stating it as fact. Then, holy crap... the exact opposite thing you said ACTUALLY happened, haha -- proving you 100% wrong. But here you are again. This train's never late.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

I don't wanna hear his Corsi or his draft ranking or salary. None of that ***** matters.

His CF% is excellent. I realize you don't want to hear it, but it matters and it is one of the ways we know he's a good defensive forward.

His draft ranking and his salary are irrelevant because they have no impact on the ice whatsoever. His CF%, however, does; which is why it does matter.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

You were called out for proclaiming as fact that they wouldn't make moves because we are a budget team and people said that is just your opinion and to stop stating it as fact. Then, holy crap... the exact opposite thing you said ACTUALLY happened, haha -- proving you 100% wrong. But here you are again. This train's never late.

 

[OlTimeHockey]

His CF% is excellent. I realize you don't want to hear it, but it matters and it is one of the ways we know he's a good defensive forward.

His draft ranking and his salary are irrelevant because they have no impact on the ice whatsoever. His CF%, however, does; which is why it does matter.

What matters is the ROLE he plays on ice and how well he does it. CF and whatever stats are meaningless when you're looking for functional value. The stats may MEASURE it to validate the opinion but what goes on ON ICE matters most.

His game, checking and puck management are key. You can weigh the stats. I'm comfortable with knowing when a rushing player is near Bailey, he's SOLID at removing the disc from an opponent or riding him out of the play with smart positioning.

And his passing is very, very good....

unless he's got the puck in front of a wide open net and elects to pass it again.

 

[steveat]

ya, his contract isn't that bad

 

[BroadwayJay*]

I will admit I used a poor choice of words, but I still think it is a really bad contract. He may be .5 PPG, but how many of those points came off 2nd assists where all you need to do is pass it to a teamate and and your other 2 line mates could do all the work, and he could still get a point. The same could be said for a primary assist. Jay, I know your a stats guy, is there any type of advanced stat that measures that? Not trying to insult you or be an ******* or anything I'm just curious. I feel like his value is low because of that, and the fact you are giving that much money to someone who is a 3rd liner.

He's not a third liner on every team.

Tell me what the stat is that you want. I mean, I'm not going to nitpick on a guy's assists.

You could do that to anyone.

The points are the points, I'm not going to qualify them by suggestively suggesting that some of them aren't as good as others. That's ridiculous.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

What matters is the ROLE he plays on ice and how well he does it. CF and whatever stats are meaningless when you're looking for functional value. The stats may MEASURE it to validate the opinion but what goes on ON ICE matters most.

The stats are a measure of what happens on the ice.

 

[PK Cronin]

You think 3.3m is "horrible" for a 0.5 ppg player who is strong defensively?

I don't understand who the contract haters are comparing him to. His contract is right on par with other guys of his ilk. Maybe they're looking at Colin McDonald and wonder why they aren't making the same amount?

With Boychuk and Leddy they added 7M in salary and only lost 600k in Brennan. Nobody should expect now that they invest more. The return if they trade someone would be budget relief and then maybe there is room to add someone else. Interesting now what will happen the next days.

You're the same guy who said that they weren't going to add any salary at all and how horrible Snow is with making decisions. I'm gonna say, nay.

Thanks for that stat, Seph. That makes me feel somewhat better about his contract, but it still isn't good. Value wise around the league, I'm not sure what he could fetch because his value is at a low. I don't like selling low.

It's really not bad. Who are you comparing him to? He's on an average contract.

His obvious potential has compounded the issue. That this potential has emerged from time to time - commonly when Tavares goes down with injury and they lean on Josh with more responsibility doesn't help either. So he can tap his potential, but only when he has additional responsibility... That is the kind of luxury usually reserved for someone on Tavares' level.

Provided the information Garth leaked about exploring trading Bailey I imagine that Josh's window to stick is closing.

Commonly when Tavares goes down with an injury? Tavares has gone down once in his career with a real injury. I'm a bit confused by that. Are you talking about other times he's sat out for a game or two?

If the main issue with Bailey is getting the production out of him we expected based on his draft position, he should be put in a role where he will have the opportunity to thrive.

With alot of pressure off our forwards who had to compensate for our mediocre blueline. I feel this is Baileys year to prove himself. The worst that happens is he gets demoted, in the best case scenario, he can stay with JT-KO on the top line if he meshes.

I think he should be on JT's wing or at least get the shot at the beginning of the season. If he impresses early on and we still need to move him, he'll have increased value. It's fairly low risk.

I've been saying this for a while. There's no reason to not put him there and see what happens. Worst case scenario, he ends up back on the 2nd or 3rd line like he currently is.

The reason why I like that top 3 is because I'd really like to keep Strome, Nelson, and Lee together if possible. Some people don't like that idea though. With this roster, it's really up to you on what you think is best. Not sure there is a sure fire wrong answer until we see it being used in games.

Before yesterday's moves, you said that there is no way the Isles would invest more or move Bailey because they want to stay right at the floor. Then they add two players and 6.5 MM in roster space while clearly and purposefully not trading roster players. Now, there is no way they would invest more and we should actually expect them to trade away salary.

At what point do we just see through your posts as being ridiculous? You were called out for proclaiming as fact that they wouldn't make moves because we are a budget team and people said that is just your opinion and to stop stating it as fact. Then, holy crap... the exact opposite thing you said ACTUALLY happened, haha -- proving you 100% wrong. But here you are again. This train's never late.

Spot on.

He's not a third liner on every team.

Tell me what the stat is that you want. I mean, I'm not going to nitpick on a guy's assists.

You could do that to anyone.

The points are the points, I'm not going to qualify them by suggestively suggesting that some of them aren't as good as others. That's ridiculous.

I don't understand the qualifying of points all the time. Garbage time is pretty weak, especially when a player has proven that it is more coincidence than anything. The only way to qualify points properly, at least for me, is to break down the ES points vs PP points. It's important to know who is doing what and when.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

I don't understand the qualifying of points all the time. Garbage time is pretty weak, especially when a player has proven that it is more coincidence than anything. The only way to qualify points properly, at least for me, is to break down the ES points vs PP points. It's important to know who is doing what and when.

I call that accuracy, and I agree.

 

[blitzkriegs]

Player brought up too early due to his cap hit. He never settled into a role in the NHL. Snow is tied to him as he was one of his first draft picks. Bailey seems like a 1st round talent wAsted by a budget team. He'll settle in as a 3rdiner aka Manny Malhotra type. It just takes awhile to realize that's now what he is.

 

[Space Herpe]

The only way the Isles can trade him, would be if the Isles keep some of his salary.