Is there a reason Patrick Kane is never named as a top 5 player?

[daver]

Crosby
McDavid
Malkin
Kucherov
Karlsson

Are names when I think of top 5

Until this season, Kane should have been there instead of Kucherov, and still could be instead of Malkin who simply cannot stay healthy enough.

 

[Patrik Barkov]

He's not a good person, to me, that is also very important.

Assault, sexual assault, xenophobe...real class act.

How does that matter when discussing hockey abilities?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

he's too sheltered and 1 dimensional for me to consider him among the best of the best

 

[WJCJ]

For a few years he was definitely considered top 5 but now McDavid etc have pushed him down a few spots.

 

[daver]

he's too sheltered and 1 dimensional for me to consider him among the best of the best

I always chuckle at the term "sheltering". Does it not make sense to try to free up superstar offensive talent to maximize their offensive production? This should hardly be viewed as a negative. And believe it or not, there is some point where offensive production overshadows any discrepancy in someone's game. The primary purpose of a Top 6 winger is to get the puck in the net. Kane, at his best, was best player in 2015/16.

That being said, he does need to be clearly the best offensive producer to be rated ahead of a player like Crosby who produces in all situations and is very solid defensively.

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

He was 1st in points 2 seasons ago and top 3(?) last season. I think most people consider him a top 3 winger at the very least.
And I dont even like the guy.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I always chuckle at the term "sheltering". Does it not make sense to try to free up superstar offensive talent to maximize their offensive production? This should hardly be viewed as a negative. And believe it or not, there is some point where offensive production overshadows any discrepancy in someone's game. The primary purpose of a Top 6 winger is to get the puck in the net. Kane, at his best, was best player in 2015/16.

That being said, he does need to be clearly the best offensive producer to be rated ahead of a player like Crosby who produces in all situations and is very solid defensively.

playing against better players should be viewed as a positive

 

[VoluntaryDom]

He's kinda small and bad defensively.

This

 

[daver]

playing against better players should be viewed as a positive

Putting up the most points, while in Kane's case, being able to carry a line, should be viewed as the biggest positive of all. It's ridiculous to outright dismiss a player because of usage. There is only so much a forward can do defensively and ones that do it well do not separate themselves from other players nearly as much as those with elite offensive skills separate themselves. You can teach defense but not offense. There is a reason why Wayne and Mario are viewed as GOATs while the Bob Gainey's are not.

 

[daver]

From 14/15-16/17, Kane was easily a top 5 player, arguably the best. Imo he was the best player over 15/16 and 16/17 combined.

From 12/13 to 14/15, Kane was knocking on the door of the top 5 with elite but injury-shortened regular seasons and a Top 5 playoff resume. After 15/16, he along with Benn and OV were right behind Crosby as the best players and could have been #1 if he won the Art Ross by a clear margin last year. Instead, he had a Top 5 Art Ross finish that left him comfortably in the Top 5 players.

I don't see too many poeple picking him as the best player over the past two seasons given what Crosby has accomplished.

 

[ESH]

I really don't think these two things are the reason...

1) His off-ice stories.
2) The Hawks lack of playoff success the last two seasons.

Reason for the 2nd one, is because that's only happened in the last year and a half. I remember 2-3 years ago he STILL wasn't being named in the consensus top five.

Sure it's arguable after Crosby-McDavid with all the other top guns, but a guy as successful as him, and a guy who never finished under a point per game, with all his playoff successs, sick moves and clutch goals, it's truly amazing what he could accomplish if he wasn't hurt a couple times the past few years.

I'm not even a big fan I just don't get how 69 pt Matthews is always named 3-5 along with perhaps Malkin, or Stamkos (Both those names are fine)

Kane's eliminated what four teams in the playoffs, series winning goals, he's even scored a goal to win the Stanley Cup.

If you look at his stats, you might be surprised how consistent he is, and has been...his entire career.


I guess I should probably name a top 5 right now and it's really hard because you see guys having really good years the past two-three years like Scheifle, Gaudreau, Kucherov, Marchand, Wheeler, Kopitar,Tarasenko and it's hard really put a guy there for sure.

But I'll go....


McDavid
Crosby
Stamkos
Malkin
P Kane

Ovechkin, Tavares, Getzlaf, and the young 3 (Matthews, Eichel, Laine) are right around here IMO.

What about defensemen and goalies?

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Until this season, Kane should have been there instead of Kucherov, and still could be instead of Malkin who simply cannot stay healthy enough.

Yeah, what's with this super long leash for Malkin? The dude hasn't been top 10 in pts or top 20 in hart voting since 11/12. That's 5+ seasons ago. PPG is nice and all, but if the dude can't even come top 20 (!) once in the last 5 seasons or stay healthy (average 22 missed GP last 5 seasons) then it's time to call it like it is. He doesn't deserve that spot that so many people just unanimously give him.

 

[TheMule93]

For the season where he peaked, he was considered a top 5 player

otherwise he's a ~PPG winger with average-at-best defense

 

[Mick Riddleton]

He only excels on offense, without the puck he is average at best

 

[Sam Spade]

Clinching game for my team in any series and Patrick Kane is the FIRST guy I want. Guy is money when it matters.

 

[NoMessi]

Until this season, Kane should have been there instead of Kucherov, and still could be instead of Malkin who simply cannot stay healthy enough.

Malkin have 46 points in the last two playoffs, the exact same as your imaginary lover Crosby. That is with him being injured the first year. He also had the best P/60 in the whole league last year.

Him being injured is what hinders him from being number 1, not top 3-5.

 

[Paris in Flames]

"Never named as a top 5 player"

He literally won an award naming him the top NHL player.

Does....this thread really cite a lack of Hawks playoffs success as a potential reason? Uhh. Okay. That's not weird at all.

FWIW Kane was probably a consensus top 5 offensive player in the game for years and he was treated as such - by the media, HF and the league. If he's not anymore it's not for any reason other than more/similarly productive players coming along who may have more elements to their game.

 

[MNRube]

All I know is that he scares me more than any other player in the league. Probably the league's best offensive talent, would be an absolute nightmare to defend against. I think he's in same tier as McDavid and Kucherov as far as weapons go. Other guys like Crosby, Karlsson, Bergeron, Malkin just bring a but more of an all-around game. Matter of preference and timing.

 

[daver]

All I know is that he scares me more than any other player in the league. Probably the league's best offensive talent, would be an absolute nightmare to defend against. I think he's in same tier as McDavid and Kucherov as far as weapons go. Other guys like Crosby, Karlsson, Bergeron, Malkin just bring a but more of an all-around game. Matter of preference and timing.

When did Crosby drop from being at the top of the offense tier, if not argubly on a tier of his own? I would think the clear best offensive player since 2006 would be scarier especially when they do go against the harder matchups.

 

[Field of Dreams]

Because Point Per Game matters the most when comparing point totals?

You can't compare points between a guy who's season starts in early October and a guy whos started in December. That's why I mentioned PPG. Not like it's some "whatever" stat like plus/minus.

Why do you bring up Matthews in every thread?

Give it up, you're star is inferior and your team is a disaster.

 

[TheFinalWord]

Because Point Per Game matters the most when comparing point totals?

You can't compare points between a guy who's season starts in early October and a guy whos started in December. That's why I mentioned PPG. Not like it's some "whatever" stat like plus/minus.

Who's leading in PPG this season? Oh yeah...not your guy.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Putting up the most points, while in Kane's case, being able to carry a line, should be viewed as the biggest positive of all. It's ridiculous to outright dismiss a player because of usage. There is only so much a forward can do defensively and ones that do it well do not separate themselves from other players nearly as much as those with elite offensive skills separate themselves. You can teach defense but not offense. There is a reason why Wayne and Mario are viewed as GOATs while the Bob Gainey's are not.

ok? but other plays do that while maintaining responsible defensive play and playing against top competition. There's a reason why players like Gordie Howe are seen as better than Jagr. I have no idea where your reluctance to admit being a second line winger with offensive deployments should be seen as less impressive than a #1 C who dominates the top competition in the league comes from, but it's a bit pointless

 

[Chuck Norris Trophy]

He's not a good person, to me, that is also very important.

xenophobe..

Care to elaborate?

 

[Sam Spade]

When did Crosby drop from being at the top of the offense tier, if not argubly on a tier of his own? I would think the clear best offensive player since 2006 would be scarier especially when they do go against the harder matchups.

Yeah, that's a hard "no" from me. There is a actually a much clearer best offensive player, but you are daver so I will let it slide.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

He's not a good person, to me, that is also very important.

Assault, sexual assault, xenophobe...real class act.

The cab thing happened but how can you claim sexual assault when he was cleared on all charges? With everything that came out from that, you think he still did it?