Is the Two-Way Argument Silly?

[LeafFever]

This is always used to try to say an inferior player is better than someone else. If you look back, that is how the ridiculous Toews is better overall than Crosby started a few years back.
Offensive play is easily as important as defensive play. I get a little tired of seeing inferior players being named better "Overall" when they are not.

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[jw2]

not as silly as saying Toews is better than Crosby.

 

[LeafFever]

not as silly as saying Toews is better than Crosby.

That's how that started though. Better overall. Oh my god what a terrible argument that was.

 

[Evergreen]

That's how that started though. Better overall. Oh my god what a terrible argument that was.

I'm pretty sure nobody ever said that.

 

[LeafFever]

I'm pretty sure nobody ever said that.

Are you kidding me? It was said constantly. Particularly after the 3rd cup win by the Hawks in 2014.
The two way play argument leads to massive overrating of players.

 

[Ainec]

noone on HF said Toews was better but you had media saying it

Guys like Barkov, Bergeron, Kopitar produce elite offense and provide elite defensive play. By all metrics their defensive play is the reason they are ranked so highly (goal of the game is to outscore the opponent)

 

[LeafFever]

noone on HF said Toews was better but you had media saying it

Guys like Barkov, Bergeron, Kopitar produce elite offense and provide elite defensive play. By all metrics their defensive play is the reason they are ranked so highly (goal of the game is to outscore the opponent)

Wrong. It was said a lot, Particularly in 2014.

 

[DJJones]

Can't stand watching players on my team that suck at defense and giveaways.

If anything two way play is underrated.

 

[LeafFever]

Can't stand watching players on my team that suck at defense and giveaways.

If anything two way play is underrated.

Because that is what I was saying.

 

[LeafFever]

Can't stand watching players on my team that suck at defense and giveaways.

If anything two way play is underrated.

On here? No way.

 

[DJJones]

Because that is what I was saying.

I have no idea what you were trying to say

 

[Ainec]

On here? No way.

OP provide examples where you think two-way play is overrated

Toews > Crosby is a terrible one

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Can't stand watching players on my team that suck at defense and giveaways.

If anything two way play is underrated.

Thank you.

This site is all offense, all the time. If anything, defense is criminally underrated here, and since OP is clearly referring directly to Toews, the idea is that he wins his matchup i.e. scores more than his direct opposition. That carries massive value no matter how little people want to admit it.

Edit: Try a better example, Toews vs. Crosby is very obviously tilted just so you can pound your chest to make your point with an argument you're saying is a few years old...

 

[LeafFever]

OP provide examples where you think two-way play is overrated

Toews > Crosby is a terrible one

Toews. and please don't say that never happened here because I am shocked at the short memories of people here.

 

[jw2]

stop listening to people saying Toews is better than Crosby.

Thats just stuff to get page hits for irrelevant bloggers and forgotten beat writers.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

This is always used to try to say an inferior player is better than someone else. If you look back, that is how the ridiculous Toews is better overall than Crosby started a few years back.
Offensive play is easily as important as defensive play. I get a little tired of seeing inferior players being named better "Overall" when they are not.

-Yes. Said it in the other thread about defense men and Ill say it here. Scott Stevens is better than any defender in the entire NHL right now, and take a look at his overall year by year point stats.

 

[Ainec]

Toews. and please don't say that never happened here because I am shocked at the short memories of people here.

so your entire basis on making this thread and your denial towards other posters that disagree with you is...

Jonathan Toews, the player that gets the most ridicule on HFBoards

seems legit

 

[LeafFever]

so your entire basis on making this thread and your denial towards other posters that disagree with you is...

Jonathan Toews, the player that gets the most ridicule on HFBoard sseems legit

In the past 2 years, yes. But it use to be different. Apparently you don't recall or were not here.

 

[Ainec]

ITT Toews is not better than Crosby

ITT no evidence other than that 1 time somebody said Toews is better than Crosby

Did this really justify your thread title?

 

[docbenton]

In his prime Toews absolutely was better than Crosby (at the time, who was maybe still dealing with some concussion issues and not a very good player without the puck). People are forgetting how good Toews was, he was like a better Bergeron. Crosby couldn't do shit for a number of years in the playoffs or in international competition. Toews outplayed Crosby on numerous occasions in high stakes games while given tougher assignments.

In general one-way offensive players aren't going to help you very much for half of the time they are on the ice (probably more if they can't get the puck back against a match-up line), so they are definitely inferior to good two-way players who can get the puck back and then go on the attack.

 

[LeafFever]

-Yes. Said it in the other thread about defense men and Ill say it here. Scott Stevens is better than any defender in the entire NHL right now, and take a look at his overall year by year point stats.

Stevens did score a lot the first half of his career.

 

[Vipers31]

This is always used to try to say an inferior player is better than someone else. If you look back, that is how the ridiculous Toews is better overall than Crosby started a few years back.
Offensive play is easily as important as defensive play. I get a little tired of seeing inferior players being named better "Overall" when they are not.

Yes, offensive play is as important as defensive play. Maybe the guys you don't like seeing called inferior players are just inferior players, because their better offense doesn't make up for their defensive issues. If you don't think defensive play can make up for 10 points of offensive production over a season, for example, you have a lot of hockey to learn.

 

[Ainec]

In the past 2 years, yes. But it use to be different. Apparently you don't recall or were not here.

So you made this thread titled "Two way play is silly" to talk about how Toews is not better than Crosby? what kind of discussion are you trying to have

 

[LeafFever]

In his prime Toews absolutely was better than Crosby (at the time, who was maybe still dealing with some concussion issues and not a very good player without the puck). People are forgetting how good Toews was, he was like a better Bergeron. Crosby couldn't do **** for a number of years in the playoffs or in international competition.

In general one-way offensive players aren't going to help you very much for half of the time they are on the ice (probably more if they can't get the puck back against a match-up line), so they are definitely inferior to good two-way players who can get the puck back and then go on the attack.

Stop it. He was never as good as Crosby. It was embarrassing then as it is now.
And many on here said that (Toews better overall than Crosby).

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

In the past 2 years, yes. But it use to be different. Apparently you don't recall or were not here.

You should either pick a better example or go back to a thread from three years ago so you can argue into the void about something that's been bugging you since 2014.