Is the "Retool" or "Rebuild on the Fly" Over?

[DL44]

Pens.. Crosby then Malkin/Staal 1-2 the following yr
Hawks.. Kane/Toewswes 1-2, Vertseetg the next, skip a yr, Crawford 4th the following - thats how you get a dynasty i guess.
Col.. Duchene, skip, Landeskog win, skip, McKinnon win.
Fla.. 2 wins in 3 yrs.... Huberdeau, Ekblad.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I see there's enough good young players for me to pay to watch them now.
I've watched the nucks for about 50 years now and its been entertaining to say the least, players , gms and owner's have come and gone and I'm still here but they have a limited shelf life .
I just hope they win and understand I have no say in how the clubs run or decisions that are made and just accept whatever they're doing.
I find it can be a roller coaster of emotions if I don't think of the nucks as just entertainment and not angst.

That doesn't address anything I have said, and since you interjected yourself in the discussion and then admitted that any GM could have drafted the prospects the Canucks got over the last few years due to the high picks they received from the NHL, I'll take it as you really do agree.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Winnipeg's pre-existing core starting their rebuild is irrelevant to the points I was making. It really has no bearing on many aspects of how the two team's rebuilds differ - that being, patience, retaining futures, and drafting the BPA with high picks. If anything, pointing to Winnipeg's pre-existing core would agree with my point - that Burke's comparison of the two rebuilds is dumb.

My point is moreso that they did not have any Juolevi/Virtanen screw ups in the 1st round. They pretty much always chose the BPA with their higher picks (Laine, Connor, Ehlers, Morrissey, etc.). And when they didn't (Stanley, Roslovic), it was with mid/late 1st round picks that were still ranked in the top 30 and were defensible.

Please explain the "(no Calder candidates though)" comment. What 1st round pick should the Jets have changed to draft a Calder candidate? Please list who they ought to have drafted. I'll give you a hint - you won't find anyone because the Jets were never as bad as the Canucks to have access to high enough picks to draft Calder nominees. What a desperate and disingenuous remark.

The Jets pre existing core is irrelevant in their rebuild..??..okey dokey

The Jets made one playoff appearance in 6 years..That’s quite a few high picks there..we have missed the playoffs in 4 years and have 2 Calder finalists without winning the lottery (and one of those was picked 23 OA).

They also won the lottery (Laine)..we never have..

The Canucks had missed with JV/OJ..but if Demko becomes a legit NHL starter,and Try returns,the 2014 draft will be a success.

 

[4Twenty]

Winnipeg's pre-existing core starting their rebuild is irrelevant to the points I was making. It really has no bearing on many aspects of how the two team's rebuilds differ - that being, patience, retaining futures, and drafting the BPA with high picks. If anything, pointing to Winnipeg's pre-existing core would agree with my point - that Burke's comparison of the two rebuilds is dumb.

My point is moreso that they did not have any Juolevi/Virtanen screw ups in the 1st round. They pretty much always chose the BPA with their higher picks (Laine, Connor, Ehlers, Morrissey, etc.). And when they didn't (Stanley, Roslovic), it was with mid/late 1st round picks that were still ranked in the top 30 and were defensible.

Please explain the "(no Calder candidates though)" comment. What 1st round pick should the Jets have changed to draft a Calder candidate? Please list who they ought to have drafted. I'll give you a hint - you won't find anyone because the Jets were never as bad as the Canucks to have access to high enough picks to draft Calder nominees. What a desperate and disingenuous remark.

It's not disingenuous either, it's unequivocally false....Patrik Laine was a Calder runner up.

I do find it hilarious how much love the 3 potential calder finalists thing is getting though....do they give trophy's for that? Can we hang that up in the rafters?

The Avalanche of 2011-2014 had 3 calder finalists in 4 years, 2 years later put up 48 points...it doesn't mean anything. Like does it really matter that Boeser came 2nd and Kyle Connor came 4th? Neither won it.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

The Jets pre existing core is irrelevant in their rebuild..??..okey dokey

The Jets made one playoff appearance in 6 years..That’s quite a few high picks there..we have missed the playoffs in 4 years and have 2 Calder finalists without winning the lottery (and one of those was picked 23 OA).

They also won the lottery (Laine)..we never have..

The Canucks had missed with JV/OJ..but if Demko becomes a legit NHL starter,and Try returns,the 2014 draft will be a success.

If it's relevant, then you agree with me - it's a bad comparison to make in comparing the Canucks/Jets rebuilds and Burke is being dumb. So why are you even raising this point?

Who cares how many times the Jets missed the playoffs? What matters is how high their picks were and what players were available at the time. Once again, your Calder argument is ridiculous as it was impossible for the Jets to draft any Calder players. Please list players the Jets should have drafted that would have been Calder players.

On drafting Laine - I agree. Once again, because this is a bad comparison to make for comparing rebuilds.

I honestly can't tell if you're being purposefully obtuse, trolling me, or just don't understand what the original disagreement was about.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

If it's relevant, then you agree with me - it's a bad comparison to make in comparing the Canucks/Jets rebuilds and Burke is being dumb. So why are you even raising this point?

Who cares how many times the Jets missed the playoffs? What matters is how high their picks were and what players were available at the time. Once again, your Calder argument is ridiculous as it was impossible for the Jets to draft any Calder players. Please list players the Jets should have drafted that would have been Calder players.

On drafting Laine - I agree. Once again, because this is a bad comparison to make for comparing rebuilds.

I honestly can't tell if you're being purposefully obtuse, trolling me, or just don't understand what the original disagreement was about.

Its not the exact rebuild..maybe Burke is just impressed with the way the Canucks are accumulating young talent like the Jets used to.. ( as he said at the the last draft.."the Canucks have sneakily built up their talent pool")..Is that a possibility?

Who cares how many times that Jets have missed the playoffs.?...It is relevant because they've had more high end picks..The team was doormat for years.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Its not the exact rebuild..maybe Burke is just impressed with the way the Canucks are accumulating young talent like the Jets used to.. ( as he said at the the last draft.."the Canucks have sneakily built up their talent pool")..Is that a possibility?

Who cares how many times that Jets have missed the playoffs.?...It is relevant because they've had more high end picks..The team was doormat for years.

I just don't get why you disagreed with me calling Burke dumb for comparing the Vancouver/Winnipeg rebuilds, and then you went on to list reasons why the rebuilds are different. We're agreeing that they are different for many reasons, you listing Winnipeg as having a better pre-existing core and a lottery pick in Laine.

As for the bolded, I disagree. How has Winnipeg had more high end picks? Canucks have had six top 10 picks in the last seven years, and have had nine 1st round picks in the last seven years. Winnipeg have had two top 10 picks in the last 7 years, and have had eight first rounders in the last seven years. Why are you just making crap up with no factual support?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I just don't get why you disagreed with me calling Burke dumb for comparing the Vancouver/Winnipeg rebuilds, and then you went on to list reasons why the rebuilds are different. We're agreeing that they are different for many reasons, you listing Winnipeg as having a better pre-existing core and a lottery pick in Laine.

As for the bolded, I disagree. How has Winnipeg had more high end picks? Canucks have had six top 10 picks in the last seven years, and have had nine 1st round picks in the last seven years. Winnipeg have had two top 10 picks in the last 7 years, and have had eight first rounders in the last seven years. Why are you just making crap up with no factual support?

Not really..technically,they are the Atlanta Thrashers as well..

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Not really..technically,they are the Atlanta Thrashers as well..

...you still haven't provided examples on how Winnipeg have had more high-end picks. If you're going to assert a claim, you need to support it with facts. Not to mention the fact that pretty much all of the Atlanta Thrashers' high draft picks have either busted (Burmistrov, Lehtonen, Vabalik, Stefan), or have been traded (Kane, Bogosian, Coburn). And even the players they traded, the returns are no longer with the team (Myers).

So I really don't understand the point you're trying to make. Why don't you provide some facts and reasoning instead of just making baseless claims?

 

[82Ninety42011]

If all goes well were a bubble playoff team but all never goes well. Canucks have improved but sadly not enough to be a playoff team yet. The kids will take a step but until we can shed some serious anchors in the next two years were not ever done truly with the rebuild. As someone mentioned they are all in but the "re-build" will be the fall back excuse. I see the light at the end of the tunnel coming. I just pray when we see the train engineer once the train hits the light it's not still Benning driving.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

...you still haven't provided examples on how Winnipeg have had more high-end picks. If you're going to assert a claim, you need to support it with facts. Not to mention the fact that pretty much all of the Atlanta Thrashers' high draft picks have either busted (Burmistrov, Lehtonen, Vabalik, Stefan), or have been traded (Kane, Bogosian, Coburn). And even the players they traded, the returns are no longer with the team (Myers).

So I really don't understand the point you're trying to make. Why don't you provide some facts and reasoning instead of just making baseless claims?

You have to take into account that the Jets rebuild is over (and has been for several years)...and they were still sucking/rebuilding when we were competing for the SC..

From 2011 -16, ...the Jets had 4 top 10 picks (Scheifle,Trouba,Ehlers,Laine)...the Canucks from 2014-19 have had 5 (Virtanen,Juolevi,Pettersson,Hughes,Podkolzin)

Starting to look a bit more even isnt it?.....maybe thats why Burke isnt so dumb.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

You have to take into account that the Jets rebuild is over (and has been for several years)...and they were still sucking/rebuilding when we were competing for the SC..

From 2011 -16, ...the Jets had 4 top 10 picks (Scheifle,Trouba,Ehlers,Laine)...the Canucks from 2014-19 have had 5 (Virtanen,Juolevi,Pettersson,Hughes,Podkolzin)

Starting to look a bit more even isnt it?.....maybe thats why Burke isnt so dumb.

You realize that 5 is a greater number than 4 though, right? So once again, how have the Jets had more high-end picks than the Canucks? You’re doing a terrible job demonstrating your point.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

You realize that 5 is a greater number than 4 though, right? So once again, how have the Jets had more high-end picks than the Canucks? You’re doing a terrible job demonstrating your point.

Oh jeez...one extra pick....lol.

The Jets spent around 5 years sucking and picking high,and so did we (and we didnt even win the lottery).

 

[Teflon Jim]

That doesn't address anything I have said, and since you interjected yourself in the discussion and then admitted that any GM could have drafted the prospects the Canucks got over the last few years due to the high picks they received from the NHL, I'll take it as you really do agree.

We didn't exactly pick EP where was rated , he was rated 8or 9 and virtually no one had him 5th so no I don't think any gm could do that.

 

[Askel]

Oh jeez...one extra pick....lol.

The Jets spent around 5 years sucking and picking high,and so did we (and we didnt even win the lottery).

The difference is Jets didn't trade away picks during their building seasons, and didn't sign FA to massive deals.

 

[F A N]

The difference is Jets didn't trade away picks during their building seasons, and didn't sign FA to massive deals.

They did trade a 2nd for Setoguchi, a 3rd and 5th for Frolik, a 4th for Fehr, and a 3rd for Tlusty (as a rental with a 5th going the other way).

 

[y2kcanucks]

We didn't exactly pick EP where was rated , he was rated 8or 9 and virtually no one had him 5th so no I don't think any gm could do that.

I had him 5th on one of my latest rankings. Also it was reported that there were scouts who had him 1st overall if not for his size. It's not like he was picked out of nowhere. Our scouts were very high on him all year, and there have been rumblings that Benning didn't want Pettersson and Linden overruled him and sided with our scouts.

 

[Teflon Jim]

I had him 5th on one of my latest rankings. Also it was reported that there were scouts who had him 1st overall if not for his size. It's not like he was picked out of nowhere. Our scouts were very high on him all year, and there have been rumblings that Benning didn't want Pettersson and Linden overruled him and sided with our scouts.

But he wasn't rated 5th he was 8th 9th and the talk on here was glass or mittlestat were the likely picks.
Four gms ahead of us wiffed on the consensus redraft #1 oa.
I take Aquamans really pleased with the pick by his extending Telflon Jim.

 

[y2kcanucks]

But he wasn't rated 5th he was 8th 9th and the talk on here was glass or mittlestat were the likely picks.
Four gms ahead of us wiffed on the consensus redraft #1 oa.
I take Aquamans really pleased with the pick by his extending Telflon Jim.

I wouldn't say that Dallas or Colorado are unhappy about their picks.

And I honestly don't care what Aquilini thinks. He's not a smart person. He extended the worst GM in team history. This truly is a laughingstock organization. Oh well. I'll laugh again when the Canucks miss the playoffs again, and Benning is still here. Aquilini deserves to lose money on this.

 

[Teflon Jim]

I wouldn't say that Dallas or Colorado are unhappy about their picks.

And I honestly don't care what Aquilini thinks. He's not a smart person. He extended the worst GM in team history. This truly is a laughingstock organization. Oh well. I'll laugh again when the Canucks miss the playoffs again, and Benning is still here. Aquilini deserves to lose money on this.

Ya I know Caesar deserves to lose his billions but the thing is it's his money and he calls the shots and he just gave the thumb up and spared Teflon Jim and who's gonna stop him since he controls the Coliseum and players.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

They never invested in futures or put any effort in to actually rebuilding the team.

They spent the draft picks NHL gives teams for doing poorly and drafted a couple of really good players with those picks.


I guess the "building" is now over. What they built is a clunker...

 

[DL44]

It's not disingenuous either, it's unequivocally false....Patrik Laine was a Calder runner up.

I do find it hilarious how much love the 3 potential calder finalists thing is getting though....do they give trophy's for that? Can we hang that up in the rafters?

The Avalanche of 2011-2014 had 3 calder finalists in 4 years, 2 years later put up 48 points...it doesn't mean anything. Like does it really matter that Boeser came 2nd and Kyle Connor came 4th? Neither won it.

For the Pens and the Hawks, it led to 3 cups.
*just providing all the info.

 

[DarrenX]

I guess the "building" is now over. What they built is a clunker...

This. The "building" is over because for now there are no more pieces left to build with. This is it. It remains to be seen how good "this" is. To me it looks like a bubble team at best.

Those of us who dream of Cup contention again will have to wait for new management, and probably new owners.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

For the Pens and the Hawks, it led to 3 cups.
*just providing all the info.

Pick surplus. Deep prospect pool. Etc.

 

[Jack Burton]

I think it's over.

This franchise is going to go all in.