Is the "Retool" or "Rebuild on the Fly" Over?

[Fire Benning]

Your joking right? Benning fluked into Petey? Lol that was one of 2 drafts we dropped as many spots as possible. Thanks to Benning having balls we have a cornetstone player as you call him. This team still has a top 10 prospect pool even after the recent graduates. As for hail mary moves that is hilarious, every fan of the team said the same thing, improve the top 6 and our D. Benning did both and all it cost was a conditional 1st and money that isnt ours. But I guess people like you are the type that want everything without giving anything up.

They intended to ice a competitive team that season and failed, as a result they benefited from a system that encourages failure and picked high.

Top 10 prospect pool is very debateable, and even so it's not a sure thing that a high volume of prospects will translate to future success.

No matter how you slice it sacrificing a potential lottery pick when you've been a confirmed lottery team by early/mid march each of the last 4 seasons is a risk, and reeks of desperation and an overestimation of the quality of the team (again).

 

[mriswith]

This management team never rebuilt, not even for one season.

It has been one long permanent retool and it will continue forever until Benning is gone because he does not believe his hand crafted team can ever fail, and once it does fail he cannot identify talent or sign it for value in a cap world that would change the outcome of the team.

This summer made it abundantly clear that there has been no change or even an iota of learning or improvement by Benning.

 

[DL44]

How can something that never even started be over?

This Canucks organization is in a very bad spot. Some good young players surrounded by a lot of junk. This is a bad team that is now capped out and trying to make a push for 8th (despite still clearly a step below the top 8-9 teams in the conference). Wasting the early/prime years of our young core's careers.

Not every rebuild equals scorched earth.

They somehow managed to secure a young core during their tenure here... while playing some meaningful hockey over parts of the last couple of seasons by plugging the roster.

I don't know what you think they were doing this past season when they replaced the Sedins with Roussel and Beagle... But it wasn't to win... it was to not get rolled night after night Oiler style while hoping the youth takes steps. And they showed up.

Going back to 15-16 - when they shed Bieksa, Lack, and the whole 3rd line of Mattias, Richardson, Kassian... and brought in Bartkowski, Prust, Fedun.. so they could make room for Kenins and Horvat + to take over... Obvious rebuild type turnover, right? But then people got obsessed with the Bonino/Sutter trade - put them in rebuild-denial mode... ah well. Attempt at adding a perceived important piece... (or the shedding of Higgens, Hamhuis, Burrows, Hansen... but Eriksson confused everyone unable to see the forest from the trees)

So sure... rebuild never started.

Anyways... Enjoy the season! Should be a fun one. You are in mid-season form already!

 

[y2kcanucks]

Not every rebuild equals scorched earth.

They somehow managed to secure a young core during their tenure here... while playing some meaningful hockey over parts of the last couple of seasons by plugging the roster.

I don't know what you think they were doing this past season when they replaced the Sedins with Roussel and Beagle... But it wasn't to win... it was to not get rolled night after night Oiler style while hoping the youth takes steps. And they showed up.

Going back to 15-16 - when they shed Bieksa, Lack, and the whole 3rd line of Mattias, Richardson, Kassian... and brought in Bartkowski, Prust, Fedun.. so they could make room for Kenins and Horvat + to take over... Obvious rebuild type turnover, right? But then people got obsessed with the Bonino/Sutter trade - put them in rebuild-denial mode... ah well. Attempt at adding a perceived important piece... (or the shedding of Higgens, Hamhuis, Burrows, Hansen... but Eriksson confused everyone unable to see the forest from the trees)

So sure... rebuild never started.

Anyways... Enjoy the season! Should be a fun one. You are in mid-season mode already!

Somehow? I'll tell you how: the team sucked and they ended up drafting some good players high in the draft every year. That's what happens when teams suck. They get high draft picks, and you usually get good players with those high draft picks. This isn't rocket science.

Meaningful games? Not really. This is the second worst team in the NHL by a single point over the last 4 year stretch. This has been a rotten awful team during Benning's tenure. That's nothing to be celebrated. It's an indictment of our owner's stupidity that Benning still hasn't been fired.

What do I think Benning has been doing in any of the past seasons? He's tried to win. He spent to the cap every year except for last season. He hasn't bothered to acquire any draft picks, and instead has continued to trade away picks almost every year.

Going back to 15-16 when Benning said he felt he had a better team than the 100 point team he had in 14-15 you mean? You suggesting they were rebuilding is revisionist history.

Of course people got obsessed by the Sutter trade, or Eriksson signing, or the Gudbranson trade...because those were the biggest moves Benning made.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Yes...the JTM trade siganalled that...In all likelihood, the Canucks first rounder next year would probably not even crack the lineup till 2022-23 (unless they win the lottery).

Eventually, you have to **** or get off of the pot...You can run the risk of players 'dying on the vine' if you're perpetually waiting for that next big 'piece' that you will get in the lottery (which then leads you into your eternal rebuild on rebuild... Oilers,Sabres,Panthers,Coyotes).

It's only deserving to players like Horvat,and coach Green..that they have a competitive squad for once.

I find it hilarious how this “rebuild” is apparently over, yet you still can’t point to the specific transactions that Benning made that made up this rebuild.

I’ll make a ridiculous claim too. I built up Facebook from the ground up. Not going to say how, or anything I did. But I built that company and everyone should just accept that and move on. I mean, why not? That’s just as ridiculous and baseless of a statement as claiming Benning has done a rebuild here.

 

[DL44]

Somehow? I'll tell you how: the team sucked and they ended up drafting some good players high in the draft every year. That's what happens when teams suck. They get high draft picks, and you usually get good players with those high draft picks. This isn't rocket science.

That was a joke.

Meaningful games? Not really.

Not really? but sort of.. maybe? some? a few in there...

What do I think Benning has been doing in any of the past seasons? He's tried to win. He spent to the cap every year except for last season. He hasn't bothered to acquire any draft picks, and instead has continued to trade away picks almost every year.

Acquiring a couple extra picks doesn't define a rebuild.

Going back to 15-16 when Benning said he felt he had a better team than the 100 point team he had in 14-15 you mean? You suggesting they were rebuilding is revisionist history.

I'm not revising history... The transactions speak for themselves.

15-16 signings:

Baerstchi -- 1yr, $900K
Vey -- 1yr, $1 mil
Bartkowski -- 1yr, $1.75 mil
Weber -- 1yr, $1.5 mil
Markstrom -- 2yrs, $1.55 per
Cracknell -- 1 yr, $575K
Corrado -- 1yr $600K
Clendening -- 1yr $760K
Brisebois -- 3yr $734K (ELC)
Zalewski -- 3 gm, $575K
Biega -- 2 yrs, $750 per
Tryamkin -- 2 yr, $925K (ELC)

Sutter -- 5 yrs, $4.375 per

OUT:
Bieksa, Lack, Matthias, Richardson, Kassian, Bonino, Stanton, Clendening, Eriksson, Conacher, O'Reilly, Sanguinetti, McNally, McMillan, Defazio, Jensen, Corrado, Shinkaruk, Cracknell, Fox
IN:
Bartkowski, Prust, Sutter, Fedun, Bachman, Jones, Cracknell, Witt, Etem, Granlund, Larsen


He really loaded up for run with all those 1 yr contracts... really locking in the future of the core...

Of course people got obsessed by the Sutter trade, or Eriksson signing, or the Gudbranson trade...because those were the biggest moves Benning made.

Nothing wrong with being obsessed... but allowing the moves distract you from the bigger picture of what was happening with the roster.

 

[DL44]

I find it hilarious how this “rebuild” is apparently over, yet you still can’t point to the specific transactions that Benning made that made up this rebuild.

Only thing is... you can. Jim Benning Era Transaction Summary

15-16 - stripping the team of its 3rd line+ to make room for youth.... Vey, Kenins, Horvat etc...


The lack of NHL quality depth is what led to the the brutal record the following couple seasons due to the youth depth failing when injuries hit... and why he moved on players like Gagner, Del Zotto, Vanek, Roussel, Schaller, Beagle... supplement the depth short term with NHL caliber players.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Only thing is... you can. Jim Benning Era Transaction Summary

15-16 - stripping the team of its 3rd line+ to make room for youth.... Vey, Kenins, Horvat etc...


The lack of NHL quality depth is what led to the the brutal record the following couple seasons due to the youth depth failing when injuries hit... and why he moved on players like Gagner, Del Zotto, Vanek, Roussel, Schaller, Beagle... supplement the depth short term with NHL caliber players.

Kenins, Horvat and Vey were already on the team. Richardson and Matthias were lost to free agency because Benning ran out of cap space from overpaying Sutter, Dorsett, and Sbisa. This forced McCann and Virtanen to the NHL before they were ready. Z

There wasn't enough depth because look at your second paragraph. Garner, Roussel and Beagle contracts were not short term.

The only rebuilding made during the Benning tenure have been the Lack, Burrows, and Hansen trades. I shouldn't even include the Lack and Hansen trades as they were made to get rid of the a goalie and because of the expansion draft. A true rebuilding team would do more in one trade deadline.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Only thing is... you can. Jim Benning Era Transaction Summary

15-16 - stripping the team of its 3rd line+ to make room for youth.... Vey, Kenins, Horvat etc...


The lack of NHL quality depth is what led to the the brutal record the following couple seasons due to the youth depth failing when injuries hit... and why he moved on players like Gagner, Del Zotto, Vanek, Roussel, Schaller, Beagle... supplement the depth short term with NHL caliber players.

Except you can’t. Again, I’ve called you out on your revisionist history. I noticed how you ignored that part. To suggest Benning was rebuilding going into 15-16 when going into that season he said he felt this was a better team than the one which posted 100 points the previous year is ludicrous. Not to mention Benning’s own statement at the 2016 trade deadline that he truly believed this was a playoff team if not for Sutter and Edler’s injuries. Moving out a couple of third liners from the previous regime to replace them with his own third liners isn’t a rebuild. Not to mention the fact that he didn’t bother trading away Hamhuis because he waited until the last minute to even begin exploring that option, because he wasn’t ready to throw in the towel on the playoffs. Also, Vey was already on the team from the previous year.

Stop making things up.

Benning then tried re-loading in the summer of 2016, moving out significant futures for Gudbranson, and making a dumb splash signing Eriksson. You can’t seriously tell me, with a straight face, that Benning’s intent was to rebuild by going out and signing big name free agents. It’s ludicrous.

 

[y2kcanucks]

That was a joke.

Not really? but sort of.. maybe? some? a few in there...


Acquiring a couple extra picks doesn't define a rebuild.



I'm not revising history... The transactions speak for themselves.

15-16 signings:

Baerstchi -- 1yr, $900K
Vey -- 1yr, $1 mil
Bartkowski -- 1yr, $1.75 mil
Weber -- 1yr, $1.5 mil
Markstrom -- 2yrs, $1.55 per
Cracknell -- 1 yr, $575K
Corrado -- 1yr $600K
Clendening -- 1yr $760K
Brisebois -- 3yr $734K (ELC)
Zalewski -- 3 gm, $575K
Biega -- 2 yrs, $750 per
Tryamkin -- 2 yr, $925K (ELC)

Sutter -- 5 yrs, $4.375 per

OUT:
Bieksa, Lack, Matthias, Richardson, Kassian, Bonino, Stanton, Clendening, Eriksson, Conacher, O'Reilly, Sanguinetti, McNally, McMillan, Defazio, Jensen, Corrado, Shinkaruk, Cracknell, Fox
IN:
Bartkowski, Prust, Sutter, Fedun, Bachman, Jones, Cracknell, Witt, Etem, Granlund, Larsen


He really loaded up for run with all those 1 yr contracts... really locking in the future of the core...



Nothing wrong with being obsessed... but allowing the moves distract you from the bigger picture of what was happening with the roster.

Jim Benning is a joke.

And nothing is distracting anyone. Jim Benning has tried to push for the playoffs every year. He has failed miserably every year. You either accept that fact, or you try an ill advised spin job that ignores reality and key facts.

 

[Pip]

“Meaningful games”

 

[DL44]

Except you can’t. Again, I’ve called you out on your revisionist history. I noticed how you ignored that part. To suggest Benning was rebuilding going into 15-16 when going into that season he said he felt this was a better team than the one which posted 100 points the previous year is ludicrous. Not to mention Benning’s own statement at the 2016 trade deadline that he truly believed this was a playoff team if not for Sutter and Edler’s injuries. Moving out a couple of third liners from the previous regime to replace them with his own third liners isn’t a rebuild. Not to mention the fact that he didn’t bother trading away Hamhuis because he waited until the last minute to even begin exploring that option, because he wasn’t ready to throw in the towel on the playoffs. Also, Vey was already on the team from the previous year.

Stop making things up.

Benning then tried re-loading in the summer of 2016, moving out significant futures for Gudbranson, and making a dumb splash signing Eriksson. You can’t seriously tell me, with a straight face, that Benning’s intent was to rebuild by going out and signing big name free agents. It’s ludicrous.

I already told you I wasn't revising history... The transactions speak for themselves in their totality.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I already told you I wasn't revising history... The transactions speak for themselves in their totality.

Yes, they do speak for themselves. As do Benning's own comments. Your interpretation is revisionist history.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I already told you I wasn't revising history... The transactions speak for themselves in their totality.

The transactions where they traded away a years worth of draft picks?

 

[y2kcanucks]

The transactions where they traded away a years worth of draft picks?

It took Benning 2 years to trade away more draft picks than Gillis did in 6. The transactions speak for itself.

 

[DL44]

Yes, they do speak for themselves. As do Benning's own comments. Your interpretation is revisionist history.

Revisionist history indicates my interpretation has revised over time.
It hasn't. Said the same thing at the time based bodies in v out... and have said it since.

Took a lot of flack suggesting Benning had a plan and pointing it out.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Revisionist history indicates my interpretation has revised over time.
It hasn't. Said the same thing at the time based bodies in v out... and have said it since.

Took a lot of flack suggesting Benning had a plan and pointing it out.

So the Canucks were rebuilding by trading away 14 draft picks in Benning's first two years here?

That's a new spin.

You also said you would judge Benning after the 2017 off-season and then conveniently disappeared.

 

[DL44]

So the Canucks were rebuilding by trading away 14 draft picks in Benning's first two years here?

That's a new spin.

You also said you would judge Benning after the 2017 off-season and then conveniently disappeared.

Selective memory, eh?

And whose the one spinning here when you mention 14 picks out(if that's even accurate) without stating 10ish picks in.

Edit.. counted 10 picks out, 8 picks in.
So inaccurate and hyperbolic spin.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Selective memory, eh?

And whose the one spinning here when you mention 14 picks out(if that's even accurate) without stating 10ish picks in.

Edit.. counted 10 picks out, 8 picks in.
So inaccurate and hyperbolic spin.

Hyperbolic spin? I was off by a couple picks.

Regardless, you're arguing the team that traded away more draft picks than they acquired was rebuilding. That's hilarious. You're arguing the team that spent to the cap was rebuilding. Also hilarious. You're also arguing that a team coming off a 100 point season, where the GM said he expects his team to be better than that 100 point team, was rebuilding. Hilarious. You're arguing that the team continued their rebuild by trading away more futures in the spring of 2016, and by spending big money in free agency. Also hilarious.

I'm starting to think you might not have an understanding of what a rebuild is.

 

[xtra]

Selective memory, eh?

And whose the one spinning here when you mention 14 picks out(if that's even accurate) without stating 10ish picks in.

Edit.. counted 10 picks out, 8 picks in.
So inaccurate and hyperbolic spin.

How many of those 8 picks did he use to pick or trade away? I mean if you acquire a pick for garrison and then trade it for vey it’s not really using that pick for youth is it?

 

[DL44]

How many of those 8 picks did he use to pick or trade away? I mean if you acquire a pick for garrison and then trade it for vey it’s not really using that pick for youth is it?

Its not?

 

[tantalum]

Its not?

No trading for a 23 year old player unable to crack the NHL is not trading for youth. It’s trading for age gap in the hope that people buy he’s trading for youth. Perhaps trading for youth is the wrong term...it’s not prioritizing youth and it’s not forward looking.

 

[DL44]

No trading for a 23 year old player unable to crack the NHL is not trading for youth. It’s trading for age gap in the hope that people buy he’s trading for youth.

Ah..Gotcha.

 

[tantalum]

Gotcha.

Note I added an edit to explain further....

 

[y2kcanucks]

Note I added an edit to explain further....

Some people aren't interested in hearing it. If they have determined that a GM who focuses on trading away draft picks, spends to the cap signing free agents every year, and doesn't bother to sell any assets for draft picks that he uses at the draft, is doing a rebuild then reality probably isn't going to change that opinion.