Speculation: Is the current core ready to become a perennial playoff team?

[Peen]

Is 3 people big enough to call a core? It feels like the size of the core is shrinking to make the quality look better.

There was a recent athletic article about the average cup winners having a 5-6 star level performers and runners up having 4-5 star level performers.

So, you can win with three “stars” if you get three non-star players to produce like ones while having career years.

This is not factoring in the supporting cast, coaching, whatever.

I think you could make the argument that they have 5 with JT and Bo, but they’re expiring in a year and in need of huge raises where you’d end up paying your star players like Toronto and have zero wiggle room.

They’ve basically got to take a step back.

 

[RandV]

There was a recent athletic article about the average cup winners having a 5-6 star level performers and runners up having 4-5 star level performers.

So, you can win with three “stars” if you get three non-star players to produce like ones while having career years.

This is not factoring in the supporting cast, coaching, whatever.

I think you could make the argument that they have 5 with JT and Bo, but they’re expiring in a year and in need of huge raises where you’d end up paying your star players like Toronto and have zero wiggle room.

They’ve basically got to take a step back.

A huge raise is when you're going from ELC to franchise player contract. Miller and Horvat I'd call more 'moderate' raises, probably about $3M each. Sell Boeser, maybe sign that Russian guy, and it's covered.

Those 5-6 star level performers on Cup winners are going to be playing on big contracts. Toronto's problem is they're spending $33.5M on their top 3 forwards, while in Vancouver the issue is we're dragged down by the Jim Benning specials.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

Those 5-6 star level performers on Cup winners are going to be playing on big contracts. Toronto's problem is they're spending $33.5M on their top 3 forwards, while in Vancouver the issue is we're dragged down by the Jim Benning specials.

Ok, sorry, I don’t wanna be a Karen hee hee hee but you just can’t say this ok? We need to move on. How can we ever move forward without moving on? We have to leave the blame of the past exactly there, in the past.

Starting after Mike Gillis.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

And drafting 10-16 is better?


I love Pods, but Zegras went one spot before him. If missing the playoffs finishing with even a one place higher pick can be huge. Boudreau did great, but he likely hurt us getting a higher pick (for sure really) and getting better assets at the TDL for Miller, and others, than we will get now.

Sorry man, but you're on another planet iif you think that JR/PA are tearing the team down .....For a rebuild, or higher picks etc.

We haven't seen anything that resembles that yet, and by all accounts..It looks like they're building on the current core.

 

[Fatass]

Sorry man, but you're on another planet iif you think that JR/PA are tearing the team down .....For a rebuild, or higher picks etc.

We haven't seen anything that resembles that yet, and by all accounts..It looks like they're building on the current core.

Building on the current core? Is Miller part of that core? Is Boeser? Is Garland? Is Myers? Lots of BIG changes coming.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Building on the current core? Is Miller part of that core? Is Boeser? Is Garland? Is Myers? Lots of BIG changes coming.

Miller, Boeser,Garland may be part of that core...It doesnt take away from the point that JR/PA are not doing a 'tear down'.

As we speak, they haven't really done anything yet.

 

[Tomatoes11]

A huge raise is when you're going from ELC to franchise player contract. Miller and Horvat I'd call more 'moderate' raises, probably about $3M each. Sell Boeser, maybe sign that Russian guy, and it's covered.

Those 5-6 star level performers on Cup winners are going to be playing on big contracts. Toronto's problem is they're spending $33.5M on their top 3 forwards, while in Vancouver the issue is we're dragged down by the Jim Benning specials.

Lol why do the homers think we have cap flexibility?

First, losing Boeser from an already mediocre team with him isn’t inconsequential.

Two, we are far from covered. We have negative cap space. Plus hoglander is up too.

Three, being cap compliant for one year at a time is a dim thing. That’s how you lose tanev, marky, and toffoli for free and bleed value and assets. Has to be long term sustainable and giving two players that aren’t even our superstars 8 million or more is like maxing out your credit card when your monthly wage doesn’t cover it.

Four, Hughes, ep, and OEL already make over 7. Adding an 8 million contract and a 9 million one would make us worse than Toronto by far.

Man our fan base actually thinks that our cap situation is okay or something. Lol

We are unbelievably screwed and in bad shape cap wise. It’s time people realize this. Lol

 

[Fatass]

Miller, Boeser,Garland may be part of that core...It doesnt take away from the point that JR/PA are not doing a 'tear down'.

As we speak, they haven't really done anything yet.

JR did say a step back for a couple years. No Miller. No Garland. No Myers. Does Bo reup? Does Petey in two years?

 

[M2Beezy]

Amazing that 8 years of garbage GMing is ok to defend, but if someone suggests maybe the new management wants to consider a rebuild that is absolutely OFF THE TABLE AND YOU MUST BE ON ANOTHER PLANET

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

JR did say a step back for a couple years. No Miller. No Garland. No Myers. Does Bo reup? Does Petey in two years?

JR did say a step back for a couple of years in his initial press conference, but in the year end presser PA played that down, and said that they dont have plans to 'step back' at all.....

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Does it even matter? This team is not beating the avalanche in a series for 10+ years.

 

[Tomatoes11]

Does it even matter? This team is not beating the avalanche in a series for 10+ years.

Our only chance is Bedard or Mitchkov and to somehow find Hughes his seabrook, pronger, stevens. A voynov or Muzzin might work too but I think one of the former is a safer bet. Lol

But fat chance we are getting either in the next 5 years unless we start hoarding picks and finally start trading our assets that price us out.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Our only chance is Bedard or Mitchkov and to somehow find Hughes his seabrook, pronger, stevens. A voynov or Muzzin might work too but I think one of the former is a safer bet. Lol

But fat chance we are getting either in the next 5 years unless we start hoarding picks and finally start trading our assets that price us out.

True but the point is, Colorado is young still. Makar and Rantanen are babies. All this talk about doing this and that to our roster …. We are never beating that team in a series. They are built properly. We are a decade + away.

 

[Fatass]

JR did say a step back for a couple of years in his initial press conference, but in the year end presser PA played that down, and said that they dont have plans to 'step back' at all.....

JR Aldo said on 650 that his coming decisions weren’t influenced by the record since Bruce because the goalie was responsible for 50% of those wins. And that he will make decisions fans (and others) won’t like.

True but the point is, Colorado is young still. Makar and Rantanen are babies. All this talk about doing this and that to our roster …. We are never beating that team in a series. They are built properly. We are a decade + away.

JR knows what it takes to win the Cup. He’s been there and done it several times. IMO we have Demko, and that’s it, as a player who is key to winning Cups. All the rest could be traded to improve us over time. Ther3 are just too msn6 teams with better core pieces than us. I think JR knows this and will make BIG changes.

 

[Tomatoes11]

True but the point is, Colorado is young still. Makar and Rantanen are babies. All this talk about doing this and that to our roster …. We are never beating that team in a series. They are built properly. We are a decade + away.

Yeah people don't seem to realize just how much dim screwed us. It's like really really bad lol.

Hoglander, Horvat, and Miller up after next season. The year after that is petey and Myers. Lol we are so f'd it's unbelievable. People are saying Myers leaving to cover Petey's raise is perfect but they would be out to lunch. One, Myers plays huge valuable minutes for us. Two, his 6 million is already spent. 3 million for ep's raise and the other 3 probably covers other small raises or dim clean up fees. That leaves us with a huge RHD that plays over 20 minutes a night hole. And that's not even factoring in us missing two of boeser, Miller, and Horvat because we couldn't fit them.

Add that with unmovable contracts like OEL, Poolman, and Dickinson.

We are so screwed it's unbelievable. Definitely need to rebuild and no chance at giving Colorado a challenge in the foreseeable future. Unless we tear it down now and go for Bedard.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Our only chance is Bedard or Mitchkov and to somehow find Hughes his seabrook, pronger, stevens. A voynov or Muzzin might work too but I think one of the former is a safer bet. Lol

But fat chance we are getting either in the next 5 years unless we start hoarding picks and finally start trading our assets that price us out.

True but the point is, Colorado is young still. Makar and Rantanen are babies. All this talk about doing this and that to our roster …. We are never beating that team in a series. They are built properly. We are a decade + away.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

JR Aldo said on 650 that his coming decisions weren’t influenced by the record since Bruce because the goalie was responsible for 50% of those wins. And that he will make decisions fans (and others) won’t like.


JR knows what it takes to win the Cup. He’s been there and done it several times. IMO we have Demko, and that’s it, as a player who is key to winning Cups. All the rest could be traded to improve us over time. Ther3 are just too msn6 teams with better core pieces than us. I think JR knows this and will make BIG changes.

He also said that he's doing a retool....that the rebuilding days are done.

“We're certainly not starting from scratch. There's a lot of good players there,” said Rutherford before dismissing the idea of a full-blown rebuild.

“If you look at the teams that did a total rebuild, it's nice to see those teams doing well now but everybody forgets about the four or five years they had to go through of tough years to get there,” he said. “I would like to think, with the players we have, that this team can be retooled.”...Rutherford.

Essentially, there's not going to be any more short term 'win now' big deals for vets (like OEL,Myers)..transactions are primarily going to be focussed on younger players who will grow with the team.

 

[Fatass]

He also said that he's doing a retool....that the rebuilding days are done.

“We're certainly not starting from scratch. There's a lot of good players there,” said Rutherford before dismissing the idea of a full-blown rebuild.

“If you look at the teams that did a total rebuild, it's nice to see those teams doing well now but everybody forgets about the four or five years they had to go through of tough years to get there,” he said. “I would like to think, with the players we have, that this team can be retooled.”...Rutherford.

Essentially, there's not going to be any more short term 'win now' big deals for vets (like OEL,Myers)..transactions are primarily going to be focussed on younger players who will grow with the team.

We have OEL for five more years. If Miller accepts a six year deal at 8.5 then we have two aging guys signed for term and big money. Either OEL is traded (highly unlikely) or Miller is gone. If Miller goes that’s a big step back and could certainly start a domino effect of other going.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

We have OEL for five more years. If Miller accepts a six year deal at 8.5 then we have two aging guys signed for term and big money. Either OEL is traded (highly unlikely) or Miller is gone. If Miller goes that’s a big step back and could certainly start a domino effect of other going.

I dont think OEL is going anywhere...

Losing Miller would be a big blow to to the Canucks..If it happened , players would have to take up the slack.(players on the roster, and new incoming ones).On the upside, because of the trade , we could be younger ,faster, and have more cap flexibility..I'm 50/50 on moving/keeping him.

Again, even with Miller gone , there's going to something substantial coming back...The Canucks are not writing off next season....and they're not doing a 2 year tank either.

I think that they'll be in the pack with all the other teams around playoff time..they'll be in the mix.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

I dont think OEL is going anywhere...

Losing Miller would be a big blow to to the Canucks..If it happened , players would have to take up the slack.(players on the roster, and new incoming ones).On the upside, because of the trade , we could be younger ,faster, and have more cap flexibility..I'm 50/50 on moving/keeping him.

Again, even with Miller gone , there's going to something substantial coming back...The Canucks are not writing off next season....and they're not doing a 2 year tank either.

I think that they'll be in the pack with all the other teams around playoff time..they'll be in the mix.

In the mix to get assaulted by a good team. Yay.

 

[Tomatoes11]

In the mix to get assaulted by a good team. Yay.

Good times!

 

[RandV]

True but the point is, Colorado is young still. Makar and Rantanen are babies. All this talk about doing this and that to our roster …. We are never beating that team in a series. They are built properly. We are a decade + away.

Using being able to beat Colorado as the measuring stick for our team is likely only going to cause undue stress. They're easily the top team in the West due in large part to a number of things going really well for them:

- MacKinnon evolving from to a Art Ross candidate in his 5th season,
- 10th OV pick Rantanen emerging as a PPG+ player
- 4th overall pick Makar immediately developing into a perennial Norris contender
- swapping Duchene for Turris and what was expected to be a late 1st but ended up being 4th overall Bowen Bryam
- Then immediately selling Turris for a developing 2nd round pick Samuel Girard who immediately broke out as a legit good top 4 dman

They've done an exceptional job building a good team but up and down the lineup they've been peppered with good fortune. To be a team like that you have to be very good but also very lucky. While the Canucks aren't likely to be as good on paper over the next decade like you say fortunately if new management can turn things around you don't have to always immediately go up against Colorado. A successful Canucks team could only face them in the 3rd round giving two other teams an opportunity to knock them off first, which will happen with regularity over that long a time span.

 

[HockeyWooot]

We have a good core: Pettersson, Hughes, Demko.

We have a stable of quality vets: Miller, Horvat, Pearson, Garland, OEL

Other than Podz though we have a weak pipeline of young players that could potentially become core players.

We have a poor dcorps and overall defensive structure.

I think this is fixable but a lot of work ahead.

 

[Tomatoes11]

I think peoples expectations are way too high. For a big stretch we had the worst PK in the open era. Yes it’s bad coaching but there have been a lot of player coaches that let their team runs things most of the time and their pk was never that bad. Plus we are surely going to lose a player or two when we already lost motte and harmonic.

Plus I seen the exact same comments made when we lost Edler, tanev, toffoli, marky etc and how Halak was going to be a god compared to holtby etc. and you can always tell people were being overly optimistic. This year’s optics are even worse than the schimdt will be way better than tanev optics because those at least had some small chance of being true, maybe.

This year is lose motte, probably lose Boeser or garland or more, replace harmonic with dermott, and full year Bruce. Doesn’t sound that good to me .

 

[sting101]

Yeah people don't seem to realize just how much dim screwed us. It's like really really bad lol.

Hoglander, Horvat, and Miller up after next season. The year after that is petey and Myers. Lol we are so f'd it's unbelievable. People are saying Myers leaving to cover Petey's raise is perfect but they would be out to lunch. One, Myers plays huge valuable minutes for us. Two, his 6 million is already spent. 3 million for ep's raise and the other 3 probably covers other small raises or dim clean up fees. That leaves us with a huge RHD that plays over 20 minutes a night hole. And that's not even factoring in us missing two of boeser, Miller, and Horvat because we couldn't fit them.

Add that with unmovable contracts like OEL, Poolman, and Dickinson.

We are so screwed it's unbelievable. Definitely need to rebuild and no chance at giving Colorado a challenge in the foreseeable future. Unless we tear it down now and go for Bedard.

Jeesh do you really feel like players should not get paid and that the cap isn't a issue for all teams?

Were only screwed if new regime repeats the same mistakes. We have 4 players committed to longer than 3 yrs?.

I see you posting this fear campaigning for a rebuild but what do you think happens with all of our good players we have accumulated since Horvat decide to bolt for this desire to tank for Bedard and then end up with the 5th pick and the next Sam Bennett or Michael DalColle?

Its insanity......the GM is on record saying that they are not looking to step back at all

Just sign deals that make sense and use the trades that you make for players that dont want to be here or want stupid money to rebuild the prospect pool and then sign ones that fit