Is Philly a Sixers or Flyers Town?

[Sawdalite]

According to Philadelphia Media Outlets (CSN/WIP/TheFANATIC) when it comes to the Fall through Spring Sports, Philadelphia is clearly a 76ers Town... Sports Talk, on the RARE occasions when not discussing the Eagles... or lesser Philles chatter... Of late the Talk Hosts and Callers mostly center around the Sixers. The Flyers get a passing obligatory mention, or Sports Report.

Radio/Cable Hosts IMO not only steer the conversation towards the Sixers -- when not on Eagles -- but actual away from the Flyers.

It is my contention that the Flyers Fans of the TriStateArea do not bother to even try to discuss the Flyers due to three major reason: 1) Lack of belief that they will get meaningful and knowledgeable conversation with the Hosts... 2) Frankly they don't want to bother bringing the Flyers/Hockey up for fear of being abased during the call... and 3) Hockey is not a 'sexy' Sport where Star Players/Personalities can be discussed, nor Stats can be bantered about easily... nor can the game be discussed with the Hosts in a manner where they can actually talk about it as if they know the Sport and the Players.

Please understand that there are a couple/few Hosts that actually do understand the Sport... but are either directed by Management to go in other directions... or are belittled by co-host for liking Hockey.

FWIW: I have dug up the Home Attendance of both the Sixers and Flyers -- see below -- Please note that the Flyers Attendance from the start has always been better than the Sixers... Even during the five Seasons in the Early Nineties where the Flyers missed the PostSeason, the Attendance was only minimally effected... I do understand that Game Attendance does not comprise the entire popularity of any Sport or Team, but I contest that when used in head to head comparison, it is a fair gauge to use as a nice starting point of discussion... It also is a good way of measuring how local Sports Fans spend their disposable capital assets when it comes to the Local Teams... however it does not so much cover the young children.

EDIT: I am aware that this being in a Hockey Forum will slant the results... but that cannot be addressed... it is what it is.

Please take part in the Poll... and discuss in the Thread. PLEASE VOTE ON A SIXERS/FLYERS BASIS AND IGNORE THE NBA/NHL IN THE QUESTION.


PHILADELPHIA 76ERS
Season GP Total Avg.
CONVENTION HALL
1963-64 30 108,271 3,609 } PRIOR TO FLYERS
1964-65 25 108,729 4,349 } " " "
1965-66 25 145,372 5,804 } " " "
1966-67 30 246,275 8,224 } " " "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SPECTRUM
1967-68 35 304,631 8,704
1968-69 34 361,161 10,622
1969-70 38 311,976 8,210
1970-71 39 336,815 8,636
1971-72 37 326,493 8,824
1972-73 31 182,921 5,901
1973-74 37 171,159 4,626
1974-75 41 296,721 7,237
1975-76 41 509,699 12,432
1976-77 41 632,949 15,438
1977-78 41 644,456 15,718
1978-79 41 506,485 12,353
1979-80 41 479,727 11,701
1980-81 41 469,355 11,448
1981-82 41 506,847 12,362
1982-83 41 646,788 15,775
1983-84 41 588,139 14,345
1984-85 41 572,569 13,965
1985-86 41 513,459 12,523
1986-87 41 587,748 14,335
1987-88 41 513,113 12,515
1988-89 41 558,292 13,617
1989-90 41 574,710 14,017
1990-91 41 634,210 15,469
1991-92 41 574,128 14,003
1992-93 41 515,284 12,568
1993-94 41 509,444 12,425
1994-95 41 507,809 12,386
1995-96 41 489,327 11,935
CENTER
1996-97 41 626,478 15,280
1997-98 41 655,417 15,986
1998-99 25 436,444 17,458
1999-00 41 756,929 18,462
2000-01 41 805,692 19,651
2001-02 41 842,976 20,560
2002-03 41 807,097 19,685
2003-04 41 788,128 19,222
2004-05 41 732,686 17,870
2005-06 41 677,278 16,518
2006-07 41 608,603 14,843
2007-08 41 609,675 14,870
2008-09 41 647,898 15,802
2009-10 41 583,219 14,224
2010-11 41 604,823 14,751
2011-12 33 577,597 17,502
2012-13 41 685,412 16,717
2013-14 41 568,632 13,689
2014-15 41 571,342 13,935
2015-16 41 610,121 14,881
2016-17 41 710,557 17,331



PHILADELPHIA FLYERS
Season GP Total Avg.
SPECTRUM
1967-68 30 288747 9625
1968-69 38 425443 11196
1969-70 38 508132 13372
1970-71 39 551113 14131
1971-72 39 560796 14379
1972-73 39 626468 16063
1973-74 39 663273 17007
1974-75 40 683080 17077
1975-76 40 683080 17077
1976-77 40 683080 17077
1977-78 40 683080 17077
1978-79 40 683080 17077
1979-80 40 683080 17077
1980-81 40 683080 17077
1981-82 40 681744 17044
1982-83 40 673880 16847
1983-84 40 665445 16636
1984-85 40 678036 16951
1985-86 40 687342 17184
1986-87 40 688497 17212
1987-88 40 696180 17405
1988-89 40 696202 17405
1989-90 40 696268 17407 } Five Season w/o PO
1990-91 40 693674 17342 } "
1991-92 40 685604 17140 } "
1992-93 41 708512 17281 } "
1993-94 41 706455 17231 } "
1994-95 24 411848 17160 } Strike Shortened Season
1995-96 41 711136 17345
CENTER
1996-97 41 791753 19311
1997-98 41 800285 19519
1998-99 41 804105 19612
1999-00 41 805014 19634
2000-01 41 802605 19576
2001-02 41 802333 19569
2002-03 41 792333 19325
2003-04 41 794388 19375
2004-05 0......n/a.....n/a } First Lock Out
2005-06 41 805783 19653
2006-07 41 790591 19283
2007-08 41 801797 19556
2008-09 41 782335 19081
2009-10 41 800966 19536
2010-11 40 808328 20208
2011-12 41 790787 19287
2012-13 24 474878 19787 } Second Lock Out - Partial Season
2013-14 41 813411 19839
2014-15 41 790107 19271
2015-16 41 788319 19227
2016-17 41 785651 19162
Total 1931 34112124 17666

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[LegionOfDoom91]

The NHL is more gate driven than the NBA. The latter makes way more money off tv deals & sponsors. This city is more of a basketball city than a hockey city. Now you probably have a fair amount of people that don't really care for the Sixers but do watch the NBA a lot. As there's a lot of basketball fans in general that don't really have loyalty to team but rather a player that plays on the team. There was a lot of Kobe fans in this city when he played & a lot of Lebron fans as well. So whenever those guys would come in town to play the Sixers would see a nice jump in attendance.

From a general standpoint the parity is so awful in the NBA there's very few teams in the league actually worthy investing money into on a every nightl basis.

 

[Kermit the Prog]

I've always said Philadelphia is more a Flyers town than a Sixers town, but more of a general basketball town than a hockey town.

Both have hardcore fans, but Flyers fans are more dedicated, in what I've witnessed over the years.

 

[Sawdalite]

The NHL is more gate driven than the NBA. The latter makes way more money off tv deals & sponsors. This city is more of a basketball city than a hockey city. Now you probably have a fair amount of people that don't really care for the Sixers but do watch the NBA a lot. As there's a lot of basketball fans in general that don't really have loyalty to team but rather a player that plays on the team. There was a lot of Kobe fans in this city when he played & a lot of Lebron fans as well. So whenever those guys would come in town to play the Sixers would see a nice jump in attendance.

From a general standpoint the parity is so awful in the NBA there's very few teams in the league actually worthy investing money into on a every nightl basis.

Good point... the NBA is ore Personality driven, with more Fans following outside Stars.

... I believe I worded the the Poll Question improperly... I really wanted it between the Sixers and Flyers without considering the outside Teams of the Leagues. I don't believe I can adjust that now though. I will try.

 

[Jack Straw]

It's not an "either/or" situation. Basketball is a more popular sport, almost every kid plays basketball at some point growing up, the Flyers probably have a more dedicated (willing to spend $$$) fan base. But when the Sixers are good they draw. Even this year they were getting good sized crowds thanks in large part to Joel Embiid.

So I would vote "both" but since that wasn't a choice I voted "other". Philadelphia is a sports town. There aren't that many cities that can consistently support teams in the four major pro sports.

 

[Hurricane28]

Eagles






Sixers/Phillies


Flyers






Union

 

[Hurricane28]

But yeah, its a 76ers town. Flyers fans are more passionate I feel, but there is and will be more of a following when the 76ers are good.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

Eagles and Flyers have the best fans.

Basketball fans are truly pathetic. I've never seen more bandwagoning in a sport in my life.

Phillies are different. They're terrible and 162 games is too many to begin with. People don't like paying to sit in the heat to watch terrible baseball.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

That's a deceptively tough question. I think it depends on how you value peaks and valleys (Sixers) vs consistency (Flyers).

 

[Rebels57]

Eagles
Phillies
Flyers
Sixers

The Sixers have the most bandwagon fans. When they are contenders, they will shoot up the list. Eagles are always #1 (aside from 08-11 when the Phils were elite). I hate the Eagles so this bothers me lol.

 

[zarley zelepukin]

I've always had the impression that it's more of a Flyers town than a Sixers town, but lately it seems to have flipped because the Sixers are the more interesting team right now. I'd argue that they're by far the most interesting team in the city. "The Process" has generated so much talk and debate; and Embiid is becoming a superstar.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Football will always rule no matter how bad this team is (this is not just for this city but any major sports city). It's less commitment with 16 games & the tailgating aspect at a football game has become an event in itself as time has gone on.

 

[Hurricane28]

Eagles
Phillies
Flyers
Sixers

The Sixers have the most bandwagon fans. When they are contenders, they will shoot up the list. Eagles are always #1 (aside from 08-11 when the Phils were elite). I hate the Eagles so this bothers me lol.

I wouldn't say Sixers fans are bandwagoners. I mean, even though they have sucked, people still pay attention to "the process"

 

[Sawdalite]

Football will always rule no matter how bad this team is (this is not just for this city but any major sports city). It's less commitment with 16 games & the tailgating aspect at a football game has become an event in itself as time has gone on.

I must disagree... Boston has arguably the best NFL Team yet they are primarily a Baseball town... NYC is still strong on Baseball and the Yankees and Mets are more loved than the Giants and Jet, I believe... The Cubs, as bad as they are are adored and rival Da Bears... LA is a Dodgers and Angels Town.

Then you have the Cincinnati, St. Louis and arguably other such smaller major cities who support their MLB Teams rivaling or besting their NFL ones.

On the whole though everybody loves and follows NFL... and on the basis of people who love NFL and another Sport compared to people who love Baseball and another Sport, the overall average of people who love NFL is greater.

Don't get e wrong, the NFL is the moneymaker and the king of the hill by country mile, I'm arguing otherwise... it's just that there are some major cities where baseball still rules... Philly is far from one of them though; the Eagles are so far ahead it's not even funny... even when the Phillies sold out game after game, seaosn after season, the Eagles interest overshadowed them greatly and easily.

... But all that said... yeah... you're right.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Among my family and friends, if it's between Flyers and Sixers, the choice is the Flyers.


But if it's hockey vs basketball, they're mostly choosing basketball; just not the NBA product. So I picked other.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I must disagree... Boston has arguably the best NFL Team yet they are primarily a Baseball town... NYC is still strong on Baseball and the Yankees and Mets are more loved than the Giants and Jet, I believe... The Cubs, as bad as they are are adored and rival Da Bears... LA is a Dodgers and Angels Town.

Then you have the Cincinnati, St. Louis and arguably other such smaller major cities who support their MLB Teams rivaling or besting their NFL ones.

On the whole though everybody loves and follows NFL... and on the basis of people who love NFL and another Sport compared to people who love Baseball and another Sport, the overall average of people who love NFL is greater.

Don't get e wrong, the NFL is the moneymaker and the king of the hill by country mile, I'm arguing otherwise... it's just that there are some major cities where baseball still rules... Philly is far from one of them though; the Eagles are so far ahead it's not even funny... even when the Phillies sold out game after game, seaosn after season, the Eagles interest overshadowed them greatly and easily.

... But all that said... yeah... you're right.

The few Bostonians I've known are enthusiastic about football part-time; they're very enthusiastic about baseball full-time.

 

[Hurricane28]

The NBA product has never been worse tho

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I must disagree... Boston has arguably the best NFL Team yet they are primarily a Baseball town... NYC is still strong on Baseball and the Yankees and Mets are more loved than the Giants and Jet, I believe... The Cubs, as bad as they are are adored and rival Da Bears... LA is a Dodgers and Angels Town.

Then you have the Cincinnati, St. Louis and arguably other such smaller major cities who support their MLB Teams rivaling or besting their NFL ones.

On the whole though everybody loves and follows NFL... and on the basis of people who love NFL and another Sport compared to people who love Baseball and another Sport, the overall average of people who love NFL is greater.

Don't get e wrong, the NFL is the moneymaker and the king of the hill by country mile, I'm arguing otherwise... it's just that there are some major cities where baseball still rules... Philly is far from one of them though; the Eagles are so far ahead it's not even funny... even when the Phillies sold out game after game, seaosn after season, the Eagles interest overshadowed them greatly and easily.

... But all that said... yeah... you're right.

I'm talking in terms of showing up to games. Football only has 8 home games a year to hockey/basketball 41, & whatever baseball is which is the most. Football has the least to lose when the product sinks as the commitment isn't nearly as big.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I wouldn't say Sixers fans are bandwagoners. I mean, even though they have sucked, people still pay attention to "the process"

As one of the lunatics who goes to the lottery party every year who happens to be wearing a Chu Chu Maduabum t-shirt, I think bandwagon is actually a fair term. It just started earlier for some than others.

I ultimately didn't give a damn about the Sixers from '03 until May '13. The only games I went to were to see opposing players in person. I bought no merchandise. The only money they got from me came from my cable subscription. If asked, I would describe myself as a Sixers fan, but they were the definition of irrelevant. Just because I got on years earlier than some others doesn't mean I didn't bandwagon pretty hard.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

St. Louis is the best baseball town in America for sure. I don't have any idea how it happened, but baseball fans in St. Louis are knowledgeable, reasonable, patient, passionate, and utterly loyal. I can assure you that they are not like this normally with other things - as I've said numerous times, they are mungbeasts - but when it comes to baseball, they have no peers. There is this guy, Bernie Miklasz, I don't know how many of you have heard of him - he's a talking head from Baltimore, and a horrible gob****e. He has been in St. Louis for ages and was the lead columnist for the Post-Dispatch. He's fat and stupid and always sounds like he's chewing on a bratwurst. He has (or had) this radio show every day, and he's obnoxious in the way that all talking heads are, only with this added gob****e bratwurst-eating element added. He'll make stupid comments, but the callers who call in to talk about the Cardinals just never follow his lead - they are consistently offering good questions and making informed observations.

It's so strange, because that is the worst football town in America, hands down. They have no idea what they are talking about, they blow hot and cold like the wind, they lose interest at the slightest sign of trouble. This is only partly their fault - it's hard to explain to people who didn't experience it just how inept the football Cardinals were, and that established the template they now are stuck in, even after the Rams had their goofy period of success. Miklasz is a football guy, so his shows always crammed in more Rams stupidity than was necessary. By the way, if anyone wants to become suicidal, listen to that gob****e say the word "Rams" about 100 times in the space of five minutes. You'll be dangling out the end of a noose in no time.

I've tried many times to like the NBA, but I think that league is just completely full of ****. I did like the Sixers when I was a kid, insomuch as I liked anything to do with it, because Dr. J was awesome. I can understand why people love college basketball (at least the way it used to be) - those Louisville teams of the 80's were unbelievably beautiful to watch - but the Clydesdale clods in the NBA leave me stone cold.

The one thing I am interested to see is how long the NFL can continue to operate at this level of popularity. For the first time in my life, I have seen cracks in its future, for two reasons: 1) I think the concussion issue is going to be the end of football as we know it, eventually. These guys are so massive now, and so fast, that it makes it almost hard to watch - I'm almost waiting for someone to be killed out there (and I don't mean that in a glib way). 2) The fanbase has been unnaturally ballooned by corporate phonies who play fantasy football. These ciphers aren't real fans of football (or anything else), and they are going to wander away eventually, I think. The sport has also become so technical and mechanical (thanks, Bill Walsh) and it was a million times better when it was more "maverick," in my opinion. (I should say, though, that these aren't super well-informed opinions, because I have lost so much interest in the league the past several years, so I could be off-base.)

Sorry for the dissertation - I didn't really answer the poll question, I guess lol

 

[FlyTimmo]

Eagles






Phillies
Flyers
Sixers

A few really good years from the Sixers could switch it. I also feel like in 10-20 years time it will be:

Eagles

Sixers
Flyers

Phillies

 

[Sawdalite]

I'm talking in terms of showing up to games. Football only has 8 home games a year to hockey/basketball 41, & whatever baseball is which is the most. Football has the least to lose when the product sinks as the commitment isn't nearly as big.

I hear ya... Baseball is so hard to sell out every game... although the Phillies did it for quite a while in their smaller (than the Vet) park... 81 Games... night after night after night... bigger venue than the indoor arenas... But the NFL with 8 Home Games will sell out forever in Philly and most places... with long waiting lists.

This IMO makes the Flyers 100%+ on average capacity run for five decades pretty damn good.

 

[Halladay]

I think all things being equal, the 76ers will be more popular. City seemed way more hyped for the 2001 finals as opposed to the 2010 imo.

 

[Jack Straw]

So according to Forbes team valuations:

Eagles: $2.5 billion (2016)
Phillies: $1.65 billion (2017)
Sixers: $800 million (2017)
Flyers: $720 million (2016)

That's probably a reasonable reflection of the teams' relative popularity.

 

[Jack Straw]

Another way to look at things is to compare where the teams rank in value in their respective sports:

Flyers #6
Phillies #9
Eagles #10
Sixers #25