Is Peter's "system" Stifling Forward's Offense?

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I've been catching bits and pieces of most of the past 10 games, and it's pretty obvious to me that the Canes forwards are rarely dangerous in the offensive zone. Granted, injuries and AHL caliber players have attributed to this as well, but the Canes are 29th in the league for goals / game, yet are 15th in the league in GA / Game and 8th in the league for SA/Game.

I'm having a tough time assessing if guys like Rask, Boychuk, etc...just aren't going to be good enough point producers in the NHL or if the system Peter's plays just stifle's the offense, or if injuries to key players are just throwing it all out of whack since virtually every forward is struggling to score right now.

Staal: On pace for 19G, 52 points in an 82G season
Skinner: On pace for 20G, 42 points in an 82G season
Lindholm: On pace for 35 points in an 82G season
Semin: On pace for 22 points in an 82G season
Tlusty: On pace for 38 points in an 82G season

Even guys like Gerbe (37 point pace), Nash (37 point pace), have hit stretches now where they are struggling to score.

DISCUSS!

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[What the Faulk]

Staal and Semin aren't healthy and haven't been 100% all year. They're both getting older and we really have to ask what their ceiling is going forward. If they're still around next year, hopefully they both go into it completely injury free. That's probably the only way we'll get a good idea of where they're at.

Skinner has had two seasons like this and two seasons where he's a 30 goal, 55-60 point scorer. I think the nature of his playstyle just leads him to have inconsistent results. He's been playing with two very young players for the majority of the season, but has had spurts where he just looks so dominate. Plus he's not exactly old himself.

Lindholm has taken a step, but he is still young and not as dominant as some think. I think this speaks a bit to all the flux he's had throughout his career so far. NHL, AHL, WJC, three different head coaches, plus he came from bigger ice. He's on the right track, but a little slower than expected.

Tlusty was never more than a 20/20 guy who latched onto a great season by his linemates in 2013. If he's not with talented players (and for all intents and purposes, no one is talented right now), he's not gonna be anything more than a 3rd liner.

Nash and Gerbe also are what they are: 3rd liners on a playoff team or maybe 4th liners on a Cup contending team. 37 points for them would each be a career high by a bit, and even though they're getting top six ice time this year, that'd be a significant contribution all things considered.

I've said it a million times with regards to Semin, but it goes for almost any player: scoreless stretches happen. I mean, even Crosby has 3 goals in his last 24. Sure, he also has 19 assists in that timeframe, but that's still considered "down" for him and the point remains I think.

Personally, I think things are fine IF their young guys continue to develop and they create higher quality scoring chances. Yes, I've said it doesn't matter much in the past, but one thing that has been proven to matter is shot distance, and their heat map isn't very impressive. They're taking a lot of shots from far out with little traffic. They're dumping the puck in less and they look smoother in transition at times, but right now, the team just isn't talented enough to create good chances consistently. Skinner and Lindholm have essentially been their only healthy top six forwards for weeks, and we already knew they were a shallow team.

 

[What the Faulk]

Fun with small sample sizes: Skinner is Rask's most common linemate at ES this year (180 minutes). Both are a very impressive 56+ CF% when apart from each other. Together? 47.6. Maybe this is because both like to shoot but neither are particularly good at passing, and Lindholm has only been so good, so they haven't been able to get in position to do that. None are overly strong on the puck (ex, whoever it was that just plowed him on that one PP last night) or defensively aware, so their possession is probably short lived. FWIW, Lindholm has been good with either separately, but Skinner and Rask just haven't mixed. No idea why BP sticks with things that haven't been working while changing up others so quickly.

EDIT: Here's another - apart from Tlusty, Semin's on-ice attempts are up 9 per 20 minutes and attempts against are down 4 per 20 minutes. Semin goes from CF% of 43.1 to 60.1. That's kind of incredible. Tlusty also has good numbers without Semin, but not nearly as good.

 

[rocky7]

I don't know what Semin's injuries are in total but there is little doubt that his wrist is still ****** up and far from back to "normal". He can't shoot the puck, he can't stick handle and his passing is just "off". It's very obvious unless you want to be of the mind set of the old "narratives" regarding him.

I will say that I think that he may not have taken his rehab as seriously as the powers that be would have liked and that may have gotten him into hot water and off to a bad start with management. Wrists are critical for this game, especially his, and I would think that he will take some time to get back to normal and then have to relearn the use of it. It has been an issue for a long time. It's why some players, like Crosby for example, have declined off season wrist surgery.

And to the question at hand, yes I believe Peter's and Brindy's systems and coaching decisions are having a detrimental affect on offense. That said, there are obvious issues that have probably determined their decisions and it is too early to say anything definitive really. I find the systems playing out similar in many ways to Muller's actually so far. I won't be ranting on them just yet.

Obviously I believe coaching is "huge" in this game and unlike most fans that blame players, I tend to continue to be sceptical of coaching and less sceptical of talented players appearing to be playing poorly. Especially when they ALL are playing poorly at the same time. This has been an issue for the last two years for these guys.

You aren't going to turn Semin into a grinder, for example, no matter what you do. Far better off to get him some skill to play with somehow or move him out. This team is made up of a mish mash of guys that just can't click in any kind of system IMO.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Let's assume that the system (not the thrift shop quality lineup) is the problem. And that we could score more goals if Peters wanted to.

Does it really make sense to loosen up and turn these games into a track meet? Do we think the Canes are going to win games by taking more risks and leaving our D and goalies to fend for themselves?

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I don't think it's fair to say it is the "system" unless you can pinpoint what exactly it is about it that stifles the offense. Under Muller you could say it was the system because his zone entry required puck movers on defense that the Hurricanes did not have.

Under Peters', the Hurricanes are playing a cycling game where the 2nd forward immediately goes behind the net and the 3rd cuts to the net/slot when the 1st player is on the boards, giving said player the option to either kick it back behind the boards, push it ahead to the defense or try to throw it in front for the 3rd forward. If the first option is excised, the 3rd forward goes behind the net, the 1st in front and the 2nd up the boards. Rinse and repeat.

Several players take to this better than others. I've noticed that Staal will now fight for loose pucks and use his body to shield the puck and the defensive player in the hope for one of those options. On the other hand, Skinner's one man offense isn't going to be effective in a system that is built on passing the puck around. Defenses will just double team him when he tries to do the Joe Corvo vs. the World breakout. Same for Semin, to a lesser extent, as he will try to one man it in order to get teammates' open.

Looking at the system and the players we have, I would think that it is more of an issue of players adapting to the system and our forwards simply not being very good, than the system itself, again because I can not pinpoint anything wrong with the 'system'. Rask, Nash and Boychuk are doing well* because they are defying expectations, and not because they are legitimate depth options on contenders. I do think that Rask and Nash can develop into those roles.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

I don't know. I've seen a bunch of games where the Canes players simply can't bury their good chances. IMO it comes down to a few guys having bad years but the other ones (Rask, Boychuk, Nash, etc.) simply aren't good enough to consistently score on their opportunities.

 

[DaveG]

I don't know. I've seen a bunch of games where the Canes players simply can't bury their good chances. IMO it comes down to a few guys having bad years but the other ones (Rask, Boychuk, Nash, etc.) simply aren't good enough to consistently score on their opportunities.

That's where I am on this. We don't have enough depth for the guys we're supposed to be counting on to produce to be having off seasons.

Plus even if it is stifling the offense, the alternative is a system that's going to do nothing but expose what's the worst defense in hockey outside of Edmonton. This isn't 2006 anymore and we don't have the depth up front to get that to work right now. Would losing a bunch of games 5-2, 6-3 really be all that better then losing 2-1? At least in the later you're going to be competitive in the game more often then not.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

That's where I am on this. We don't have enough depth for the guys we're supposed to be counting on to produce to be having off seasons.

Plus even if it is stifling the offense, the alternative is a system that's going to do nothing but expose what's the worst defense in hockey outside of Edmonton. This isn't 2006 anymore and we don't have the depth up front to get that to work right now. Would losing a bunch of games 5-2, 6-3 really be all that better then losing 2-1? At least in the later you're going to be competitive in the game more often then not.

And barring some miracle, I doubt this team is ever going to be built to win track meets. Which means, for better or for worse, adopting a system that wins 3-2 hockey games. And getting everyone to commit to such a system. And getting talent that matches such a system.

Our path to success looks like the Kings and the Bruins, not like the Blackhawks.

 

[dogbazinho]

Not sure if its a system but I generally dislike line juggling. I find that chemistry and knowing your linemates tendencies is undervalued. That said our players don't seem to mesh well together as a whole and can't stay healthy so it's pretty much a moot point.

 

[Ole Gil]

At some point, it's up to a player in a one-on-one situation to do more than be forced wide, and put a weak shot on goal. I'd mentioned this earlier in the year, that Lindholm/Rask just don't generate high quality chances in 5v5 situations. You can only rely on harmless shots deflecting off opponents sticks into the corners for so long.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Not sure if its a system but I generally dislike line juggling. I find that chemistry and knowing your linemates tendencies is undervalued. That said our players don't seem to mesh well together as a whole and can't stay healthy so it's pretty much a moot point.

I think we're still finding out "who doesn't suck." Then "who doesn't suck together" is down the line.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

hcanes badly needs some players who can pass and carry the puck. it's been a problem for a long, long time. jr built this team around garbage goal scorers (or "goal scorers"), shooters, and grinders. even most of the alleged "puckmoving" defensemen couldn't pass worth a damn (corvo, mcbain, babchuk).

this team is built to spend a lot of time breaking out of their zone due to ****** talentless d, then dump the puck in because their forwards can't do anything with the puck but skate in a straight line until they run out of room.

of course, nobody in the enlightened raleigh media will discuss this. look for more grit, size, leadership, and heart discussion coming to a newspaper with nonexistent circulation near you.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

We got this one guy a few years back that could do both, but he turned into a worthless pile of garbage (harsh hyperbole but essentially true).

 

[What the Faulk]

I don't know why, but my mind immediately went to Tanabe.

 

[DaveG]

We got this one guy a few years back that could do both, but he turned into a worthless pile of garbage (harsh hyperbole but essentially true).

we've had 5 that I can recall: Kabs x 2, Oleg, Joni, and Seids. Of course, like morons we let Seids walk in free agency, bought T Kabs well after expiration date, and F Kabs, Oleg, and Joni became too injured to be of any use anymore sadly.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

we've had 5 that I can recall: Kabs x 2, Oleg, Joni, and Seids. Of course, like morons we let Seids walk in free agency, bought T Kabs well after expiration date, and F Kabs, Oleg, and Joni became too injured to be of any use anymore sadly.

I guess I was too vague. impeach estaalo said we need guys who can both pass and carry the puck, and that our "goal scorers" are/have been devoid of talent.

We signed this forward a few years ago. He's turned into a worthless player. There has been a never ending thread about him.

 

[nobuddy]

I guess I was too vague. impeach estaalo said we need guys who can both pass and carry the puck, and that our "goal scorers" are/have been devoid of talent.

We signed this forward a few years ago. He's turned into a worthless player. There has been a never ending thread about him.

jay harrison?

 

[the halleJOKEL]

dwight helminen?

 

[DaveG]

Ah, thought you were talking about blueliners, which to be fair that assessment is 100% accurate when talking about Tomas Kaberle as well. Signed a guy with the expectation that he would be a solid top 4 PMD for us and he just turned into complete and total **** from the moment he got here.

 

[GoldiFox]

hcanes badly needs some players who can pass and carry the puck. it's been a problem for a long, long time. jr built this team around garbage goal scorers (or "goal scorers"), shooters, and grinders. even most of the alleged "puckmoving" defensemen couldn't pass worth a damn (corvo, mcbain, babchuk).

this team is built to spend a lot of time breaking out of their zone due to ****** talentless d, then dump the puck in because their forwards can't do anything with the puck but skate in a straight line until they run out of room.

of course, nobody in the enlightened raleigh media will discuss this. look for more grit, size, leadership, and heart discussion coming to a newspaper with nonexistent circulation near you.

Eichel or McDavid would go a long way on those fronts. Both puck possession playmakers.

 

[storm636]

i think we have to give it a few more weeks now that Jordan is back the lines will be more of what Peters envisioned from the beginning.

 

[Unsustainable]

Can't make Chicken Salad with Chicken ****.

 

[What the Faulk]

5 of the Hurricanes' top 6 (on paper) have as many or more goals than Crosby in their respective last 50 games. Who's the only player who doesn't?

Zero points if you saw my tweet and I will condemn you as a cheater forever.

 

[DaveG]

Grittyveteranleaderestaalo?

that or Lindholm because dude's still only in his 2nd season



edit: just looked and counted games on the Canes site, it's Semin.