Is Ovechkin the greatest LW ever?

[Midnight Judges]

HFboards traditionally underrates longevity IMO. Ovechkin has a ways to go. As a matter of pace, yes, he could pass Bobby Hull IMO but he would have to be really strong into his 30s.

10 years in Hull had 5 rockets (yes I know) 3 art ross's and 2 MVPs. Ovechkin is working on his 5th rocket, has 1 art ross, a calder, and 3 MVPs. It's pretty darn close in terms of hardware.

If Ovie gets 7 rockets and another MVP plus 700 goals - all realistic possibilities - it's going to be pretty hard to argue in favor of Hull.

 

[Oan]

What's so special about Bobby Hull? Really, his numbers don't look THAT great in my mind, so would anyone kindly enlighten those of us who don't know much about O6-era. Or are you guys counting in his WHA numbers as well? (which I'm not)

 

[Plural]

What's so special about Bobby Hull? Really, his numbers don't look THAT great in my mind, so would anyone kindly enlighten those of us who don't know much about O6-era. Or are you guys counting in his WHA numbers as well? (which I'm not)

You can't use raw stats across era's. Hull played in low scoring league and started out with 70 game schedule.

In his best year, Hull scored 97 points. He beat out 2nd scorer, his team-mate Mikita by 19 points. Hull scored 54 goals in 65 games. The next closest was Mahovlich with 32 in 68 games. That season Hull led the league in PPG by 1.49. Next closest was a two way tie with guys called Beliveau and Mikita with 1.15.

That season, is one of the best individual regular season campaigns outside of Howe/Lemieux/Orr/Gretzky.

 

[Bee Sheriff]

In this discussion, you can forget him. You could do it a long time a go. Ovechkin passed Robitaille long time a go.

How? They essentially had the same prime points-wise. Ovechkin is a better goalscorer sure, but what's the difference? Robitaille stayed consistent until the end of his career and scored at a pace comparable to the one Ovechkin is currently on.

 

[Vikke]

For one, Robitaille was never close to being the best player in the world, even if you remove Gretzky and Mario.

 

[Voight]

Can't forget Robitaille either

You can quite easily when comparing him to Ovechkin.

 

[Voight]

For one, Robitaille was never close to being the best player in the world, even if you remove Gretzky and Mario.

Yea even then he was behind Yzerman, Sakic, Bourque etc.

 

[Captain Bowie]

What's so special about Bobby Hull? Really, his numbers don't look THAT great in my mind, so would anyone kindly enlighten those of us who don't know much about O6-era. Or are you guys counting in his WHA numbers as well? (which I'm not)

See Below.

And the majority of his career was spent playing against Gordie Howe, surely a lot of those 2nd place's would be 1st's otherwise.

The only thing Ovechkin has Hull beat is Hart trophies, but Hull also had 6 other top 3 finishes (again, many times to Gordie Howe). Ovechkin only has 1 other top 5 finish.

In this discussion, you can forget him. You could do it a long time a go. Ovechkin passed Robitaille long time a go.



Well, trophy counting alone is not a really good way to evaluate players.

Ovechkin plays in a league with more parity, but if we do a straight up comparison between them:

Hart Trophies:

Hull: 2
Ovechkin: 3

Art Ross trophies:

Hull: 3
Ovechkin: 1

Rocket (or retro Rocket)

Hull: 7
Ovechkin: 4 and counting

All-Star selections:

Hull: 10X 1st team, 2X 2nd team
Ovechkin: 6X 1st team, 2X 2nd team

Point finishes:

Hull: 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th
Ovechkin: 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 7th, 8th

Goal finishes:

Hull: 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th
Ovechkin: 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 5th

So, Ovechkin is on his way to getting close. But it will take a big effort to match Hull and even bigger to get past him. Bobby Hull is arguably (not in my mind, but arguably) 5th greatest player to ever play the game. Being behind him is not shame at all.

 

[Sam Spade]

Hull > Ovechkin. Honestly not too shabby.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Bobby Hull
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=2409

Ovechkin
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=63735

 

[tfong]

Possibility of #1, but #2 isn't too shabby either.

 

[Captain Bowie]

How? They essentially had the same prime points-wise. Ovechkin is a better goalscorer sure, but what's the difference? Robitaille stayed consistent until the end of his career and scored at a pace comparable to the one Ovechkin is currently on.

100-point scorers in Luc's prime (88-93): 74 (4 by Luc)

100-point scorers in Ovi's CAREER (06-14): 26 (4 by Ovi)

 

[Bee Sheriff]

100-point scorers in Luc's prime (88-93): 74 (4 by Luc)

100-point scorers in Ovi's CAREER (06-14): 26 (4 by Ovi)

Fair enough point i suppose, but you'll never truly know whether or not Luc could have done it too.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Hull



Ovechkin










The rest

 

[billybudd]

How? They essentially had the same prime points-wise. Ovechkin is a better goalscorer sure, but what's the difference? Robitaille stayed consistent until the end of his career and scored at a pace comparable to the one Ovechkin is currently on.

Loved lucky. Such a smart player.

Not in OV's class as a goalscorer...as an anything, really. When Robitaille scored 63 goals, it wasn't the acheivement that it was when OV scored 65.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Fair enough point i suppose, but you'll never truly know whether or not Luc could have done it too.

While technically true, we have very good reason to doubt it.

 

[AD1066]

As a winger he isn't even as good as Bure so no he will never be the best.Especially if you say best winger

In what way is he not as good as Bure?

Slightly edges him out in goal scoring, has a clear advantage in playmaking, is both more physical and more durable, and has a better trophy case.

 

[Party Kane]

On his current pace he could overcome Hull, at worst, he'll probably finish 2nd

If it weren't for him missing 10 games, which is uncharacteristic of someone like Ovechkin, he'd have another rocket and art Ross in his already ridiculous trophy case

 

[Mr Positive]

Hull



Ovechkin










The rest

not even Shannahan up there somewhere?

 

[Wrath]

Depends on how he ages, and how the rest of this season turns out. Ovechkin seems to be heating up in terms of goal scoring, and now he's at least considered defensively responsible, he might not ever have another season like this one (let's not forget he's a forward who relies heavily on his physical talent and is turning 30 soon), so if he can make good on this season (50+ goals, Hart, Richard) he'll definitely get his name in the conversation.

 

[Voight]

not even Shannahan up there somewhere?

Im not too high on Shanny myself, he was a great power forward but has such great goal and point totals because he stuck around for a long time.

 

[Blueland89]

He's easily behind Hull and arguably behind Lindsay as well.

Maybe Ovi beats out Hull by the time of retirement, but he would need a few more elite seasons and longevity to do so.

I believe so too. I also think though that if Ovi gets a ring it makes it a lot closer. It's hard to compare just because completely different eras, technology, opponent skill levels, and Teams around them.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Depends on how he ages, and how the rest of this season turns out. Ovechkin seems to be heating up in terms of goal scoring, and now he's at least considered defensively responsible, he might not ever have another season like this one (let's not forget he's a forward who relies heavily on his physical talent and is turning 30 soon), so if he can make good on this season (50+ goals, Hart, Richard) he'll definitely get his name in the conversation.

Ovechkin relies on his physical talent to impose on the other team but it really isn't a big factor in how he scores most of his points. Sure, every once in a while he trucks someone on his way to a goal, but most of the time it's simply his ungodly shot and good playmaking skills.

I just dont see that one-timer going away any time soon.

 

[WarriorofTime]

How? They essentially had the same prime points-wise. Ovechkin is a better goalscorer sure, but what's the difference? Robitaille stayed consistent until the end of his career and scored at a pace comparable to the one Ovechkin is currently on.

Sure, if you completely ignore the context of league wide scoring. 100 points was nothing back then. In today's NHL not a single guy is going to get 100 points.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Fair enough point i suppose, but you'll never truly know whether or not Luc could have done it too.

That's irrelevant though, based on rough comparison, Ovechkin comes out so far ahead. Ovechkin has a case for best player for a decent stretch of time, Robitaille could never claim that even if you remove Gretzky and Lemieux.

not even Shannahan up there somewhere?

Not at all, he never lead the the league in points, assists ,or goals. Never top three in hart voting.