Is our defence good enough?

[cgf]

Kevin Connauton. Better than Barberio/Rosen/Graves/MacDonald/Alt.

If Byram doesn't make the team & Zads can pick up where he left off; I'm thinking that the third pairing will be Connauton & Graves, with Barbie eating nachos & us taking advantage of Rosen's waivers-exemption to start the season.

So yeah, let's hope Byram is ready to fill that spot...

 

[John Mandalorian]

You forgot Connauton, which I admit is easy to do.

Honestly, the thing I might be most excited for in training camp./the preseason is the battle for the bottom defense pair. Assuming, as you said, EJ is ready to go, our top 4 is pretty set. The last two spots are open and could be filled by any of Barberio, Graves, Connauton, MacDonald, Rosen, Timmins, Meloche or Byram. That's a crazy number of guys who could all realistically make the opening night roster. And given the first four guys would have to pass through waivers, I think it's actually a pretty important battle. If the kids make the team, it likely means we're losing someone.

It's similar to the forward situation where we risk losing Greer or Kamenev, except there might not be any open forward spots for them to even win.

Edit: I see you already noticed the Connauton miss.

The part that I find fascinating is what happens if all the young guys earn a spot on the roster? Will someone be undeservedly sent down simply because the coaches/mgt aren't comfortable with so much inexperience?

Also, there's a lot of talent that's quite young. Will there be a scenario where Cole coming back from injury is a big step down?

I think all of these scenarios are quite possible. I'm always amazed that it wasn't that long ago where we had guys like Holden.

 

[MarkT]

The part that I find fascinating is what happens if all the young guys earn a spot on the roster? Will someone be undeservedly sent down simply because the coaches/mgt aren't comfortable with so much inexperience?

Also, there's a lot of talent that's quite young. Will there be a scenario where Cole coming back from injury is a big step down?

I think all of these scenarios are quite possible. I'm always amazed that it wasn't that long ago where we had guys like Holden.

I'd like to think Bednar & Sakic have the balls to risk losing guys like Barberio, Graves, MacDonald and Connauton for nothing if they genuinely think the young guys deserve the spot.

Also, I definitely think Cole will be a step down when he returns simply because players tend to suck for a while after a long injury layoff. But it's worth it letting him play through it so he's ready for the playoffs. Frankly, in an ideal world I'd just want to cryogenically freeze Cole (and Wilson) and unfreeze them once the playoffs start.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

The defense is going to be young, lots of mistakes. But they'll be worth it and good enough. Eventually great.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I dont think its good enough right now... but it may not be far off.


#1 thing we need to find out is what kind of player EJ is for us now. Major surgery this year plus the age factor could have a big toll on him this season. We already saw him take a step backwards last year. And maybe that step back last season had something to do with that shoulder surgery he had to get after the season? We simply wont know until October when he starts playing again for us.


Personally, I wouldn't be banking on EJ ever being a legit Top pairing guy again going forward. And in fact if we could get quality Shut down #3 level play from him for 2 more years I would be quite thrilled with that. What I think we see is a regressing middle pairing guy this year and even worse next year and going forward.


Then you have Makar, who's another unknown really. He looked great at times during the playoffs and looked like a guy who could be relied upon for 22-24 minutes a night already. Other times you could see some of the inexperienced warts in his games come through particularly in the defensive zone and puck watching situations. So once again you dont really know if you're getting a legit Top pairing, 22-24 minute a night guy who can play all situations and contribute 40-50 points right away, or if he's going to need some sheltering and more along the lines of 18-20 minutes and favorable matchups in his first season. Once again I would probably air on the side of caution here and speculate that he ends up in the middle of that area. I think he should be able to play 20-22 minutes a night as one of our Top 4RHD and may hit 40 points, but mistakes will be made and we'll have to make sure to try and shelter him from some of the extremely tough matchups and situations.



The Left side is a little more of a clear picture painted, but its not necessarily a good picture either. Girard at this point is the only guy on the Left side I'd be comfortable penciling into a Top 4, 20 minutes a night type of roster spot. And even then I think there's concern about whether he should or could be the #1LD or if he's better suited for the #2LD spot. But I think he'll be quite fine in the Top 4 at least. Then you have Connauton, Rosen, Barberio, and Cole all of which you pretty much know what you have with each of them. In Connauton and Barberio you know you're getting a 6 and 7 level Defender who can play 12-14 minutes a night and you know what you're getting but also what you aren't getting. Rosen is a little more of a question mark but ultimately his upside his still only that of a #4/5 Puck moving Dman so he's not a guy to pencil into the Top 4 either, he could fill the void of the RHD slot since he's more comfortable in that spot if he proves to be an NHL caliber guy for us. Cole is injured but when healthy he probably slots into the #2 or #3 LHD spot behind Girard and somewhere where Zadorov isn't. And then Zads is the true wildcard of the Left Side and perhaps the biggest key in how good or bad our Defense looks next year. If he cant come into the opening night as a Legit Top 4 LHD option... we're probably in trouble and will be in big need of help on the back end if we want to be serious about the playoffs. But, if he can finally find some level of consistency and be relied upon to be a Top 4 guy for us next season out of the gates, it gives the Defense a solid 1-2 punch on the left side with Makar on the Right and hopefully an EJ that can still play Top 4 minutes.


Short term I'd be looking for help if I was Joe. Far too much uncertainty in the current group and if even just 1 or 2 guys cant play at the level we need them too, our Defense looks weak real quick. If we could find a guy who's maybe a little overpaid, but only has 1-2 years left and can come in and be a steady reliable prescence on the back end, particularly on the Right side if possible... that's something we should be trying to target IMO.


Off the top of my head I think Justin Faulk, Trevor Van Riemsdyk, Alec Martinez, Jared Spurgeon... Those are just a few names with expiring deals either this summer or next, that would make a lot of sense as trade targets IMO. Especially if the team comes out of the gates hot and looks like legit cup contenders, but the defense shows signs of cracks.

 

[Pokecheque]

There's really nothing out there (no, not even Gardiner) that's a huge upgrade over what the Avs have right now. They also have more defenders than they know what to do with right now, and that's knowing that two of them might be on the shelf for a while.

I get it, they're asking a lot out of a very young defensive corps, but if they wanted interim measures they'd have found a way to keep Nemeth.

Connauton is, if nothing else, an insanely good shooter. He should be firmly ensconced as a 6/7 guy, but he has value.

 

[Raucherhusten]

Off the top of my head I think Justin Faulk, Trevor Van Riemsdyk, Alec Martinez, Jared Spurgeon... Those are just a few names with expiring deals either this summer or next, that would make a lot of sense as trade targets IMO. Especially if the team comes out of the gates hot and looks like legit cup contenders, but the defense shows signs of cracks.

If Sakic would be willing to go ALL IN then yes, he would probably sacrifice our 1st and a decent prospect to bring in another top4 RD for a year or so. But we all know that Sakic is a patient man. And that he is playing the long game. Because of that i don't expect anything to happen before the season starts. It could be different at the trade deadline. If we are legit contenders he could get active again. And myabe it could be a good thing to still have some assets, like our 1st, to do so.

I hope and kind of expect that one of the 2 Timmins/Meloche make the jump this year. And if this happens we are in a damn good shape.

 

[MarkT]

There's really nothing out there (no, not even Gardiner) that's a huge upgrade over what the Avs have right now. They also have more defenders than they know what to do with right now, and that's knowing that two of them might be on the shelf for a while.

I get it, they're asking a lot out of a very young defensive corps, but if they wanted interim measures they'd have found a way to keep Nemeth.

Connauton is, if nothing else, an insanely good shooter. He should be firmly ensconced as a 6/7 guy, but he has value.

I don't even think they're asking too much out of the youth. Our defense could very easily be:
Girard - Makar
Zadorov - EJ
Connauton - Barberio

That would be a mostly veteran defensive core. The only way the youth gets counted on is if the youth outplays the veterans and earns a spot on the team. If Byram's not better than Connauton or Barberio, I don't think he'll make the team. Same goes for Timmons, Rosen, Meloche etc...

 

[MarkT]

If Sakic would be willing to go ALL IN then yes, he would probably sacrifice our 1st and a decent prospect to bring in another top4 RD for a year or so. But we all know that Sakic is a patient man. And that he is playing the long game. Because of that i don't expect anything to happen before the season starts. It could be different at the trade deadline. If we are legit contenders he could get active again. And myabe it could be a good thing to still have some assets, like our 1st, to do so.

I hope and kind of expect that one of the 2 Timmins/Meloche can make the jump this year. And if this happens we are in a damn good shape.

Doing anything now would be silly in my opinion because we have no idea of Timmons/Byram are NHL-ready. If neither of them is and there are still questions on defense during the season, then you look to make a move. I don't think now is the time.

 

[Ivan13]

There's really nothing out there (no, not even Gardiner) that's a huge upgrade over what the Avs have right now. They also have more defenders than they know what to do with right now, and that's knowing that two of them might be on the shelf for a while.

I get it, they're asking a lot out of a very young defensive corps, but if they wanted interim measures they'd have found a way to keep Nemeth.

Connauton is, if nothing else, an insanely good shooter. He should be firmly ensconced as a 6/7 guy, but he has value.

I'd say Gardiner is a huge improvement over Zadorov.

 

[cgf]

I'd say Gardiner is a huge improvement over Zadorov.

Or EJ...or Connauton, Graves, Rosen, Barberio, Cole...

He's also better than Girard atm, but I'm not going to be the one to say that lol

 

[Ivan13]

Or EJ...or Connauton, Graves, Rosen, Barberio, Cole...

He's also better than Girard atm, but I'm not going to be the one to say that lol

Well yes, he’s better than all of them, I was just commenting on the guy who os obviously #2 LD for us now. As for Sammy, it’s close, one is better offensively, other defensively. That’s a guy you get to pair with EJ on the 2nd pair and let him do his thing. Have Z and Cole/Connatoun on 3rd.

 

[henchman21]

Or EJ...or Connauton, Graves, Rosen, Barberio, Cole...

He's also better than Girard atm, but I'm not going to be the one to say that lol

I've already taken that bullet, so go ahead... be bold!

 

[cgf]

Well yes, he’s better than all of them, I was just commenting on the guy who os obviously #2 LD for us now. As for Sammy, it’s close, one is better offensively, other defensively. That’s a guy you get to pair with EJ on the 2nd pair and let him do his thing. Have Z and Cole/Connatoun on 3rd.

I think getting to keep Girard & Makar together would be the most appealing thing about grabbing Gardiner on a 1-year prove it deal if he can't find a multi-year deal that he likes, to me.

I've already taken that bullet, so go ahead... be bold!

There I go, hiding behind you again...

 

[Raucherhusten]

I'd say Gardiner is a huge improvement over Zadorov.

Or EJ...or Connauton, Graves, Rosen, Barberio, Cole...

He's also better than Girard atm, but I'm not going to be the one to say that lol

Does Jake have a brother i never heard of? And why is he still on the market when he's that good?

 

[MarkT]

Gardiner would definitely be an upgrade, but at what cost and what term? If it's 4 years or less I'm in!

 

[MarkT]

Does Jake have a brother i never heard of? And why is he still on the market when he's that good?

He's apparently still hoping to re-sign with the Leafs. All the rumors have him getting lots of interest for several teams.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

I don't even think they're asking too much out of the youth. Our defense could very easily be:
Girard - Makar
Zadorov - EJ
Connauton - Barberio

That would be a mostly veteran defensive core. The only way the youth gets counted on is if the youth outplays the veterans and earns a spot on the team. If Byram's not better than Connauton or Barberio, I don't think he'll make the team. Same goes for Timmons, Rosen, Meloche etc...

If Makar and Girard struggle to be the top pairing night in and night out then EJ and Zadorov will be forced to play too much.

Lots of competition for the bottom pairing though. That's a plus.

 

[henchman21]

I think getting to keep Girard & Makar together would be the most appealing thing about grabbing Gardiner on a 1-year prove it deal if he can't find a multi-year deal that he likes, to me.


There I go, hiding behind you again...

I'd go for a 4 year deal personally. Gives plenty of depth down the left side. He can be exposed to Seattle where he'd likely only be here 2 seasons (to me would be a clear exposure and a player they'd take), but if not he should still have 2 good seasons. If Byram slides 1 season, his ELC would expire right at the end of the deal. The biggest downside is Z would have to slide to the right side full time now... or swapped for a RD.

 

[cgf]

Gardiner would definitely be an upgrade, but at what cost and what term? If it's 4 years or less I'm in!

I think he's got the resume to get 6-6.5 with term, so I dunno if we can give him multiple years with the way we've allocated our capspace. But I'd certainly hit him up if he's looking at 1-year deals to try his luck in FA again next summer.

 

[cgf]

I'd go for a 4 year deal personally. Gives plenty of depth down the left side. He can be exposed to Seattle where he'd likely only be here 2 seasons (to me would be a clear exposure and a player they'd take), but if not he should still have 2 good seasons. If Byram slides 1 season, his ELC would expire right at the end of the deal. The biggest downside is Z would have to slide to the right side full time now... or swapped for a RD.

I'd happily give him a 4 year deal, but can we afford his pricetag over 4years if we need to spend on another top 6er to upgrade on Bura...or pay up for Bura if he breaks out next to Landy & MacK? I haven't played with the #s since our additions cause I wanna see where the RFAs land.

 

[MarkT]

If Makar and Girard struggle to be the top pairing night in and night out then EJ and Zadorov will be forced to play too much.

Lots of competition for the bottom pairing though. That's a plus.

If that happens you shuffle the pairings as needed. I think it's unlikely both Makar and Girard struggle the whole season.

 

[henchman21]

I'd happily give him a 4 year deal, but can we afford his pricetag over 4years if we need to spend on another top 6er to upgrade on Bura...or pay up for Bura if he breaks out next to Landy & MacK?

I think they can with ease, but I think odds are high he'd only be here two seasons and find his way to Seattle... but if it goes that long, it might be the case where EJ won't waive and needs bought out. Saves $4m there even with Gardiner in tow. If both happen $10m could be opened up right there.

 

[cgf]

I think they can with ease, but I think odds are high he'd only be here two seasons and find his way to Seattle... but if it goes that long, it might be the case where EJ won't waive and needs bought out. Saves $4m there even with Gardiner in tow. If both happen $10m could be opened up right there.

Sounds good then, who's calling Joe?

 

[Raucherhusten]

He's apparently still hoping to re-sign with the Leafs. All the rumors have him getting lots of interest for several teams.

There is no way in hell the Leafs can keep him, even when he's willing to sign a team friendly contract. And he's running out of options eventually because teams are running out of cap space. Makes no sense for him to "wait it out", even is he's in love with the franchise.