Is our defence good enough?

[Thepoolmaster]

I recall a recent discussion with Cobra about his observation that FO losses weren't as much of an issue with JB's coaching style because the team is almost better at counterpunching and attacking on the transition. My question is how will that translate with the change in personnel? I hope the Avs ability to win the FO will noticeably improve.

I would think that winning a faceoff in the defensive zone would benefit the avs in that regard, as you would counter-punch right off the draw. Kadri wins the draw in the zone and allows Mikko to carry the puck in transition.

 

[flyfysher]

That's an interesting theory. Not sure I buy it since we're probably better when we're buzzing around the ozone & causing turnovers there, but I am very curious to find out the answer to the bolded.

The team has undergone so much change in personnel but they're also so highly skilled across the top 3 lines. Yeah, the D is very inexperienced now. The two reasons why I'm not planning on Byram are his weight and his lack of exposure to NHL speed. I expect you'll see some stumbles and inconsistency with the Avs due to the players' lack of familiarity with each other than anything else. It won't matter because you need to understand what you have. I'm certain JB's going to go with some line combos that we hate but then he'll keep at it for awhile just to make certain whether to keep or abandon it.

I can mentally envision the team looking great. But I can also see things looking pretty disappointing at first as well. I was telling my friends while watching the SC POs what a huge difference it was between seeing players with the puck there versus in their first scrimmage at TC. Point being, we may have set ourselves up with having very high expectations especially after being lauded as having a bad*** team in the making.

For me, I want to see Jost continue his play from last season's POs. I read somewhere that he actually wanted to drop some weight and get quicker. I thought he needed to get stronger but perhaps it's a switch n philosophy to try to use quickness to gain separation instead of building him up for board battles.

If Greer is going to join the club then he needs to dial back the penalties. He's already got a rep.

 

[flyfysher]

I would think that winning a faceoff in the defensive zone would benefit the avs in that regard, as you would counter-punch right off the draw. Kadri wins the draw in the zone and allows Mikko to carry the puck in transition.

I've been on the just get someone that can win the damn FO train ever since the Avs traded Duchene. Yeah, those OT FOs on the PK in the Flames series. That's my go to argument when someone says stats prove that winning or losing FOs doesn't matter.

 

[Pokecheque]

I've been on the just get someone that can win the damn FO train ever since the Avs traded Duchene. Yeah, those OT FOs on the PK in the Flames series. That's my go to argument when someone says stats prove that winning or losing FOs doesn't matter.

Well, if nothing else, continually losing faceoffs on the power play means automatically losing the first 15 seconds or so while you retrieve the iced puck and bring it all the way back. Maybe not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things but hey, wouldn't it be nice if the Avs could just start out with the puck in that instance?

 

[flyfysher]

hey, wouldn't it be nice if the Avs could just start out with the puck in that instance?

We're on the Psychic Friends Network!

 

[dahrougem2]

Byram should not be on this roster next season. There's no reason whatsoever to rush a defensemen that just turned 18 less than a month ago. Surefire players that go 1st/2nd overall, sure. But that is not Bowen Byram. Let him go back to junior and dominate some more and fill into his frame.

Personally, I would have re-signed Patrik Nemeth to the exact same contract Detroit gave him and tried to ship out Barberio for whatever the hell you can get back, even if it's a future considerations 7th round pick in 2065.

Right now, with EJ and Cole hurt (and I'm not penciling in EJ to start the season):

Girard - Makar
Connauton - Zadorov
Byram (9 games) - Barberio
Graves

That group is simply going to have to survive for the time being. Not to mention if Byram doesn't impress in camp, he might get sent down before the regular season and then we're looking at Graves - Barberio as a bottom pairing.

 

[Richard88]

I'd go for a 4 year deal personally. Gives plenty of depth down the left side. He can be exposed to Seattle where he'd likely only be here 2 seasons (to me would be a clear exposure and a player they'd take), but if not he should still have 2 good seasons. If Byram slides 1 season, his ELC would expire right at the end of the deal. The biggest downside is Z would have to slide to the right side full time now... or swapped for a RD.

I don't think Gardiner would sign here without some sort of NMC. Players and their agents aren't dumb. Gardiner as a UFA has the opportunity to set himself up long-term in a comfortable situation, and likely doesn't want to risk going somewhere he doesn't want to be in just 2 years time.

 

[flyfysher]

Byram should not be on this roster next season. There's no reason whatsoever to rush a defensemen that just turned 18 less than a month ago. Surefire players that go 1st/2nd overall, sure. But that is not Bowen Byram. Let him go back to junior and dominate some more and fill into his frame.

Personally, I would have re-signed Patrik Nemeth to the exact same contract Detroit gave him and tried to ship out Barberio for whatever the hell you can get back, even if it's a future considerations 7th round pick in 2065.

Right now, with EJ and Cole hurt (and I'm not penciling in EJ to start the season):

Girard - Makar
Connauton - Zadorov
Byram (9 games) - Barberio
Graves

That group is simply going to have to survive for the time being. Not to mention if Byram doesn't impress in camp, he might get sent down before the regular season and then we're looking at Graves - Barberio as a bottom pairing.

Was looking over the D roster from 2017-18.

Alt
Barberio
Barrie
Bigras
Girard
Johnson
Lindholm
Mironov
Nemeth
Siemens
Warsofsky
Zadorov

You've definitely got a point about having to survive early. But overall, unless we have some really bad luck then we have a reasonable chance of making the POs with our present D corps.

 

[henchman21]

I don't think Gardiner would sign here without some sort of NMC. Players and their agents aren't dumb. Gardiner as a UFA has the opportunity to set himself up long-term in a comfortable situation, and likely doesn't want to risk going somewhere he doesn't want to be in just 2 years time.

Then the Avs shouldn't sign him... but I don't see Gardiner getting a NMC. He's the type of player teams are constantly looking to upgrade, so even if he is good, odds are that whatever org he ends up with will want flexibility. I do think he gets a NTC to the tune of 10-20 teams, but can't see a NMC.

 

[Avsboy]

The way I see it, even if Makar and Byram magically fall off the earth, the top 4 is Girard, EJ, Zadorov, Cole. Which is a passable defensive D corps.

 

[Foppa2118]

All this Gardiner talk is just so it can justify trading Zadorov right? Where is Gardiner gonna fit with a long term deal in this lineup?

Byram - Makar
Girard - EJ
Zadorov - Timmins/Meloche/Rosen

 

[cgf]

All this Gardiner talk is just so it can justify trading Zadorov right? Where is Gardiner gonna fit with a long term deal in this lineup?

Byram - Makar
Girard - EJ
Zadorov - Timmins/Meloche/Rosen

Ahead of EJ, Zads, Timmins, Meloche and Rosen?

 

[Foppa2118]

Ahead of EJ, Zads, Timmins, Meloche and Rosen?

So like I said, it's so a Zadorov or EJ trade can be justified by their critics right? Otherwise there's no room.

And I'm talking long term, not next year since we're talking about signing Gardiner to a multi year deal. Long term if Timmins pans out, I would hope we're all on board with playing him on a 3rd pair over Gardiner?

 

[cgf]

So like I said, it's so a Zadorov or EJ trade can be justified by their critics right? Otherwise there's no room.

And I'm talking long term, not next year since we're talking about signing Gardiner to a multi year deal. Long term if Timmins pans out, I would hope we're all on board with playing him on a 3rd pair over Gardiner?

Of course there's room for a 4th quality top 4 guy

 

[Foppa2118]

Of course there's room for a 4th quality top 4 guy

There's only room if they take away a spot from Timmins long term, or trade one of Makar, Byram, Girard, EJ, or Zadorov.

 

[CobraAcesS]

That's an interesting theory. Not sure I buy it since we're probably better when we're buzzing around the ozone & causing turnovers there, but I am very curious to find out the answer to the bolded.

Only the top line and the third line really ever fit that description. Even then a large portion of the Avs offense came off the rush for those lines. How many times did we spend two minutes in the other teams zone even after one of their dudes breaks a stick and then not score lol? A lot.

The idea was two fold. One that no one expected to win FOs and over time they just became a bit of a cluster f*** in games they won it consistently. The other was that since we were so good off the rush, counter attacking became more effective.

Mostly likely it was just one of those things that set in over the season where we got a little sloppy breaking out with possession after face-offs. Just like what happens when you don't practice OT. Derp

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Makar needs to put up big numbers and probably be our best D. If for some reason it doesn't work, the Avs won't have a legit point producing Dman and the defense will be a collection of 2nd/3rd pair guys.

 

[Nihiliste]

I actually like Gardiner but just like with the Ferland speculation I think Joe is done for the offseason.

 

[ThatAvsGamer]

Yeah, they’ll be just fine.

Three clips all in the offensive Zone with the caption “yeah, they’ll be just fine”

 

[Avs71]

Three clips all in the offensive Zone with the caption “yeah, they’ll be just fine”

Would you prefer them playing in the defensive zone? It’s barely going to happen.

 

[cgf]

There's only room if they take away a spot from Timmins long term, or trade one of Makar, Byram, Girard, EJ, or Zadorov.

You're only taking a spot away from Timmins if he ever becomes a top 4 guy and if that happens then we can make a trade from a position of strength or just leave him exposed in the expansion draft so we could shield our forwards.


Similarly, you're not taking a top 4 spot from EJ because EJ didn't fill a top 4 spot last season once Makar arrived, and didn't even hit 18min a game in the playoffs. Ideal EJ shouldn't be banked on to fill a top 4 spot, even when he's healthy, so upgrading on him is a weird reason not to upgrade on him.


Where Gardiner could get in the way is if Zads becomes consistent and convinces the organization to keep him, Girard becomes Spurgeon 2.0 and Byram hits the ground running, but that's why you keep Gardiner's term to 4 years without any restrictive movement clauses.

...then, if all three do great, we just deal Gardiner or let him become our expansion draft casualty. Just like we would if Timmins / Meloche / Helleson ever become quality top 4 guys.


Nobody's arguing for an 8 year deal here. I suggested a 1 year deal and nothing longer than 4 years. If he won't settle for that then you don't do it, but it's worth kicking the can on given how weak our blueline looks for this coming season.

 

[Cappuccino]

Hard to predict, but if the Avs were to miss the playoffs any year in the next 6 years or something, next year should be the biggest fear. I have a feeling Nashville and Winnipeg are on their way down, Dallas, St louis on their way up and Chicago a question mark. I am also not sure the Central will grab the 2 wildcard spots again.

I wouldn't change a thing though, just play hard and see where it goes. The year after next year, the Central really should start watching out!

 

[OwenNolan]

Byram has nothing else to prove in the WHL. His physicality is already NHL ready. He just needs to work on his positioning because he always thinks offense first. I think he is already better than the fringe guys in Connauton, Rosen, Barberio, Graves etc.

I think he is here to stay next year.

Girard - Makar
Zadorov - Byram
Connauton - Rosen/Timmins
Barberio

EJ?
Cole?

AHL
Graves

I think the real battle will be Rosen vs Timmins.

 

[Iceberg]

Prediction: Rosen will be top 4 by the end of the season, and not because of injuries.

 

[katfude]

Yep, we're good.