hockeeyyy
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- Sep 29, 2017
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Oh I did. You just choose to cherry pick stats the same way you accused someone else of doing in this thread.
Is McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon the new Big Three?
- Thread starter talitintti
- Start date
No his Hart trophy, back to back Ted Lindsey and Art Ross Trophies do though.
Luigi Lemieux
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- Sep 26, 2003
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Just because there was a big 3 last gen doesn't mean there has to be one this gen. Right now it's looking like a big 1 until further notice.
Mackinnon is insanely good but yeah, there is no new big 3, just McDavid and an aging old big 3
ayoshi
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- Nov 3, 2010
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MacKinnon last 82 gms 111 pts.
On pace for 143 pts this season. I know I know, won't get near that, but I bet he competes with McDavid again this year, the way he did last season too
On pace for 143 pts this season. I know I know, won't get near that, but I bet he competes with McDavid again this year, the way he did last season too
To become a Big anything, you need to separate yourself from the pack for at least two seasons including playoffs.
After the 2009 season,there was a clear Big Three as Crosby, Malkin and OV had two to three years of dominance after impressive rookie campaigns.
McDavid has the best argument at this point although he has not quite shown the dominance the Big Three had at their peaks, MacKinnon is off to another great start but really has not separated himself from players like Malkin or Kucherov etc... at this point. Matthews will likely need to separate himself with his goalscoring rather than his point totals.
After the 2009 season,there was a clear Big Three as Crosby, Malkin and OV had two to three years of dominance after impressive rookie campaigns.
McDavid has the best argument at this point although he has not quite shown the dominance the Big Three had at their peaks, MacKinnon is off to another great start but really has not separated himself from players like Malkin or Kucherov etc... at this point. Matthews will likely need to separate himself with his goalscoring rather than his point totals.
PhilJets
Winnipeg is Good
All of the stats. You’re excluding the years that don’t suit your agenda because you have an obvious bias.
I could play that game as well and say Drai = Scheifele. If I only count points from the last two seasons and ignore things that don’t fit my agenda. But I try to not be a simple minded fanboy.
I like this idea.
I think we should just act like others don’t exist when Mackinnon has a rantanen and a landeskog along the way. It will help but he is on another level completely then the others.... same with Matthews and his forty percent shooting percentage he had, Clearly that wasn’t going to slow down. Last two games didn’t happen he clearly hitting 60 still. It only took mackinnon until his fifth season to start producing well (hey thats when rantanen joined him!) but after one season of this it’s a perfect idea to negate the rest!
People like Barzal, before a month into his second year, Scheifele, well due to his slow start clearly a bum. Hall? His five game point streak right now isn’t 26 games and a forty point gap over the others, it’s so 16-18. Eichel who is destroying Mackinnons production at similar ages, nah he doesent deserve to be apart of this and Laine? Meh he’s off to such a slow start he doesent exist either. Too streaky. Guys who do at both ends like Kopitar and Bergeron? Nah. Seguin? Too boring. Barkov? Meh, his team has one win and is in Florida so.....Marchand is averaging 600 points a game and Kucherov has done so well for a few years, and speaking of which clearly stamkos is a thing of the past. There’s Forsberg who is insanely consistent, but the media only wants to talk about PK and Rinne’s bad playoff numbers so forget that too. Pastrnak and Panarin are up and coming, Gaudreau is always there...they’re wingers though.
Oh and let’s ignore Ovechkin and Pat Kane who have both (and continue to) pretty much always go PPG their entire careers. And everyone else.!! Absolutely no chance for them.
Clearly it’s only Mackinnon and Matthews because Tim Hortons and Rogers markets them both so well. Sid is marketed too well but he’s so 2000’s, and doesent exist anymore because he stared slow and didn’t win the cup last year. Awful. So clearly Malkin who has always been elite despite in his shadow is out of the picture too. He’s always hurt but produces when he plays. It’s not enough to touch Mackinnon and Matthews. Speaking of which Kuznetsov has no chance either because dominating the playoffs can be done by anyone! Look at Vegas!
Sold. It’s Mackinnon, Matthews, and McDavid for life! Only those 3.
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John Eichel da GOAT
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- Oct 7, 2008
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I agree with this and by this logic, wouldn't McDavid be the one trending downwards? The Maple Leafs and Avs look to have at least a hope at playoff success in the future, where no one has any idea what the Oilers are doing. Sure the eye test gives McDavid the win because of his pure speed, but I would take a player who makes his team better (MacKinnon and Matthews) over a bunch of Art Ross trophies and no playoffs.
Obviously not blaming McDavid, but Oilers management. Give him Tavares and I'm sure a ton changes.
Also PS, everyone mentions Kucherov. Guy had one great season and is off to a pretty average start and pretty bad compared to everyone else mentioned. For a guy with insane talent around him similar to Matthews, he should be doing much more.
Tyrus
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- May 20, 2013
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1. How does this logic shows McDavid trending downwards when it mentions strong individual seasons and you're the one bringing up team-based success.
2. "I'm not blaming McDavid for his team's lack of success, but will imply that he should be discredited for said team's lack of success".
It's like some people don't even think before contradicting themselves.
John Eichel da GOAT
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You were off to the right start finally comparing the pieces around these stars which all the stat watchers dont take into account, but then looked for any reason to be sarcastic and lost me.
McDavid is the only one that literally has garbage all around him and still finds a way to put up points, but this does not always translate into wins.
Matthews and MacKinnon are off to record breaking starts so that is why they get the nods here. Matthews, I will give you gets an extra push because of the market he is in, but you cant use that excuse for MacKinnon.
You are also assuming a nice long memory which we know is a joke. We armchair gms only remember the past 10 games or so.
Barzal - Pretty average start. His points last season werent all because if Tavares, but I dont think he deserves to be mentioned with the big boys yet.
Marchand - The most similar to MacKinnon having two talents around him, but IMO Bergeron is the glue and more comparable to MacKinnon. Obv not a center as well which some say is a criteria to be in this "big 3"
Scheifele - Below average start.
Hall - Deserves it the most, but winger.
Eichel - Deserves anyone around him. Every Sabres game I watch I say "wow he is soooo much better than his teammates". But the same can be said about McDavid and he finds ways to puts up points. Why cant Eichel?
Laine - Who is the number 1 here? Scheifele or Laine?
Bergeron - The real big boy of the Bruins, but age takes him off this list. He is competing with Sid and AO.
Kopitar - See Bergeron
Seguin - I agree with this one. He should be mentioned with the big boys, but I also agree that his market may prevent that.
Barkov - See Seguin
Kucherov - Outside of Matthews now, has the most talent to work with. Needs another season like last.
Forsberg - If you bring him up, might as well bring up Johansen as well. Both are very above average depth players IMO. Depth may not be the right word but career 60 point guys arent in the conversation for the best.
Pasternak - See Marchand.
Panarin - This is the big ? for me. I always credited Kane with his success but may be the other way around. I would love to see him with a "big 3" type player.
Gaudreau - More in the Laine, Hall, Panarin category for me. Talent is there but Ive never thought of him as an mvp of the league.
Then you just started naming older players in AO and Kane. Overall we need to define how you qualify for the "big 3".
Age: 23 or younger
Position: Center
You have to be at least in striking distance of the Art Ross consistently and without question be the MVP of your team and arguably the league.
Obviously many of the players above dont fit those qualifications.
John Eichel da GOAT
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To become a Big anything, you need to separate yourself from the pack for at least two seasons including playoffs.
The "logic" I was referring to. Playoffs. They missed last year and early on look like they will likely miss again. Aka McDavid could win the Art Ross again, but if the Oilers keep missing the playoffs, how can he be considered anything more than the most skilled player in the league.
And I am blaming McDavid for his teams lack of success, but more so Oilers management for giving him garbage to work with. But the best player in the history of the world would find a way to make it work. Sorry I should've said "only" in there initially.
Blaming McDavid for anything of the Oilers lack of success is one of the most narrow minded insane thinking I’ve seen on HFboards.
My god.
Eight games!
Maybe we can just have a new Big Three every 8 games. McDavid and the other two young guys who are on a hot streak.
Although to be fair Mac has at least a great last season under his belt so his pace looks sustainable.
Matthews? A great young player for sure but too soon to put him on a separate tier from Eichel, Laine, Barzal, Barkov etc.
Let’s see him keep this up for a season.
Maybe we can just have a new Big Three every 8 games. McDavid and the other two young guys who are on a hot streak.
Although to be fair Mac has at least a great last season under his belt so his pace looks sustainable.
Matthews? A great young player for sure but too soon to put him on a separate tier from Eichel, Laine, Barzal, Barkov etc.
Let’s see him keep this up for a season.
My thinking is what does it matter? I personally think that Matthews. Mack, Laine, Barkov, and Eichel have all shown elite ability. Are they at McDavid's level? Perhaps not, but does it matter in the end? If they idea is to build a team that can compete for Stanley Cups, I think all of those young players can be key drivers for their teams in that pursuit. It is all a matter of putting the pieces around them and building to make it happen. After all, as great as Lemieux, Gretzky, and Orr were, they did not win the cup every year. In fact, their respective teams did not win as much as you might expect. Ultimately, it likely comes down to the talent around them. The same can be said of Crosby.
I personally think a more interesting discussion centers around McDavid and him playing in a smaller market city in Canada. If he is what is has show he is as a player, is it good for the health of the NHL for him to continue to play in that market?
I personally think a more interesting discussion centers around McDavid and him playing in a smaller market city in Canada. If he is what is has show he is as a player, is it good for the health of the NHL for him to continue to play in that market?
Sidney the Kidney
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- Jun 29, 2009
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Exactly. Other than McDavid, none of the young guns have separated themselves from the pack enough for there to be a "Big Three".
The whole reason that Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin were seen as the Big Three was because they separated themselves enough from the pack. They were winning individual awards, and even in the years they didn't win awards, they were usually within the top 3, top 5. The only guy who can say that today is McDavid.
stampedingviking
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