Is McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon the new Big Three?

[Frank Drebin]

Damien Cox is hands down the most arrogant, pompous, disgusting, hockey “analysts” I’ve ever seen on any panel, and I’ve watched milbury and Healy.

Disgusting as he licks his lips before and after he speaks when on hockey central at noon. (Which is not often anymore thank god, this season at least)


Check out these few quick stories, some are beyond incredible, how a person can be that way. And he’s not even playing a character.


First quick story/example displaying his Arrogance, not only does he brag about the leafs on the regular but he laughs at the suffering of others. And I quote after Darren Millard said Montreal never gets many high licks but they did this year. Cox proceeds to say in a laughing, tone “Montreal finally gets a good pick this year (starts laughing while speaking) and they screwed it uppppp! Ah .... Haha haha” (about kotkaniemi)

*gets looked at awkwardly because he knows it’s u professional and his laugh was loud and it just didn’t come off funny. If I was a habs fan I’d be sweating in French.


Here’s another extremely ignorant thing he said last spring. This one was the worst of them. So Marc Savard was on the hockey central at noon panel wth him and Darren Millard, Millard says (this was during the day of game 7 vs the leafs) “so tonight if Boston should lose this will be the last game ever for their anthem singer who’s been with the team for so many years..” (Savard smiles because he must of been aquatinted with him while playing there) then Damien Cox says with a straight face right away..“Thank god!....hes awful so it’s about time.” (About it being the bruins anthem singers last game)


Savard had this look on his face like “oh really buddy, you’re actually going to say that’s about this dedicated guy and on TV for what could be his last game?” Absolutely classless. Kudos to Savard for being so professional to not even argue with Cox. Cox who is more “experienced” should of showed that acted like a professional. He could of at least backtracked and tried to make it sound better even if it was an impulsive decision, but he didn’t because he’s too much of a *****e to care.

Also Savard said “I hope buffalo wins the dahlin lottery after Millard picked the coyotes.”

Cox goes “WHYYY?” ...Not in a curious way, in a way like a 19 year old at a party would ask his buddy why he didn’t want to go out downtown.”

Savard said “oh because they’re so helpless right now and I think it’d help them.”

Also on the show in late June (the same one with his kotkaniemi bashing) when buffalo squired Sheary ....Damien Cox says “why would BUFFALO of all teams give a third rounder aren’t they trying to rebuild?” Chris Johnston on the show that day was intelligent enough to say “we’ll Damien they’re looking to be better then dead last. They’ve been at this rebuild for awhile...and they need help on the wings.”

(I’m not even exaggerating with this about Cox then he goes in the most loud, arrogant “they suck so bad” type of tone)

“Oh THEY NEED HELP ahaha...” (in a way to say yeah no kidding they need help.)


anyway everything I named happened in the span of one or two shows. Those few examples are just a sample of what this biased, sorry excuse for an on-air personality is capable of. Great hire sportsnet!

Lol wow, sounds like he has the maturity level of a typical hfboards poster

 

[nabob]

You keep saying consistency but it doesn't seem like you understand that word

You keep repeating yourself and are wrong every time. It’s ok for you to admit that another star player is as good as your favorite star player. Seguin is, and has been, the definition of consistency since he enter the league. Same can’t be said for your precious favorite player.

Hell im not even a Seguin fan I don’t have a horse in the race and actually would cheer for your boy more. But I don’t have the bias you do so I can admit that Seguin is as good as he is.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

David amber just said there doing a separate segment with Brian Burke tonight on “the debate.”-Can’t even believe this “debate” is still going.

I’m still waiting to hear the argument. Who’s even debating this? I just hear it’s a debate but no one has
The gonads to say Matthews Is better let alone close but I guess they have to make these millions of viewers happy over there, Rogers wants their ratings.



I’m glad Kypreos said this at least when David Amber said “so has it swung back to mcdavid?” Kyper goes “look....it never changed to begin with.”

 

[Avsboy]

Lets liveblog the Leafs game. If Matthews doesn't get a point there will be widespread panic.

 

[Former Referee 68]

Again, Hit 70 pts Matthews and we can look at this again...

 

[nabob]

Again, Hit 70 pts Matthews and we can look at this again...

Hit 100 points, win an award that the only competition isn’t rookies, lead your team to a playoff round victory...

 

[Frank Drebin]

You keep repeating yourself and are wrong every time. It’s ok for you to admit that another star player is as good as your favorite star player. Seguin is, and has been, the definition of consistency since he enter the league. Same can’t be said for your precious favorite player.

Hell im not even a Seguin fan I don’t have a horse in the race and actually would cheer for your boy more. But I don’t have the bias you do so I can admit that Seguin is as good as he is.

Seriously, you're confused on how the term consistency is used. Scheifeles last three seasons

.86 ppg
1.04 ppg
1.00 ppg

And Seguins
1.01 ppg
.88 ppg
.95 ppg

To suggest that one player is more "consistent" than the other shows that you really don't understand how that word is used.

 

[nabob]

Seriously, you're confused on how the term consistency is used. Scheifeles last three seasons

.86 ppg
1.04 ppg
1.00 ppg

And Seguins
1.01 ppg
.88 ppg
.95 ppg

To suggest that one player is more "consistent" than the other shows that you really don't understand how that word is used.

Cherry picking stats I see to suit your bias again. PPG is a weak argument to use as well.

Thought you were done?

 

[Frank Drebin]

Cherry picking stats I see to suit your bias again. PPG is a weak argument to use as well.

Thought you were done?

I also don't think you know what cherry picking or bias means.

I was done till i saw you post in a condescending manner. When you don't know what consistency means you're not allowed to do that.

 

[Demandedace]

As a Caps fan who is impartial to all three teams, I think it is pretty clear that McDavid is a tier above the other two (and everyone else, for that matter). They are certainly cranking up to be the hottest "young guns" in the league right now though.

 

[Jeti]

You keep repeating yourself and are wrong every time. It’s ok for you to admit that another star player is as good as your favorite star player. Seguin is, and has been, the definition of consistency since he enter the league. Same can’t be said for your precious favorite player.

Hell im not even a Seguin fan I don’t have a horse in the race and actually would cheer for your boy more. But I don’t have the bias you do so I can admit that Seguin is as good as he is.

Literally no one is agreeing with you.

 

[hockeeyyy]

Damien Cox is a national Sports writer as well. His work is garbage too.

The quotes don’t back up the stats posted. To say he dominated while losing the puck possession badly and getting one shot in the first two games shows what a joke it and your post are.

He dominated possession in the Caps series

I’m guessing you don’t watch hockey. That’s okay. Shoot me a pm and I got links to help you get started on analytics.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Not that I disagree with the obvious assertion that McDavid is hands down the best in the league, but I will point out that the gap that used to exist between McDavid and MacKinnon has drastically shrunk. Last year the difference in ppg between the two was .01 ppg.
MacKinnon also let the league in goals created per game at .50 compared to McDavid’s .49.

So my argument is that the gap is not large and they are in the same tier.

No. No one is in mcdavids tier but if Mack keeps this up he is firmly in the lead of the second one with Matthews and such.


I will get to what and who I believe the tiers presently are below but first.....

As I said before eichel is absolutely destroying his production at the same age so why should Mackinnon be with mcdavid when eichel even outscored Mack in just his second season and missed two months. Again Mack has rantanen and landeskog and is a beauty. But eichel has none of that and has essentially gone point per game the last theee years. 127 in his last 134. ThAts battling long term injury as well. No one his line has even had over 50 pts. My point is since all that is true and Eichels not in macks tier why should he be?

I get that last season Mackinnon went nuts like Hall did but Mackinnon never produced like this until rantanen got there (not suggesting he’s the reason but he’s part of it) and had years and years of mediocrity (38 in 68, 52 and 53 back to back in 82 games) Eichels never had numbers that low in any season no matter how much time he’s missed (which is a lot, quarter season in 2 of his first 3 years) anyway.....

The way I see it:


Until proven otherwise (another season of dominance by Mackinnon or Matthews) could change it a bit but to me right now:
amongst centers:


Tier 1-!The Best)

McDavid

Crosby/Malkin (Sid is a slow starter he always turns it on and based off all his recent success how is he not here? If oens win the cup this year that’s 3/4 a dynasty and imagine if Sid gets his third smythe in four years.)


———

Tier 2 (elite players)

Kopitar
Bergeron
Matthews
Tavares,Mackinnon, Eichel, Barkov, Kuznetsov
Seguin
Scheifele (don’t care about slow stars for him or Kopitar even though he’s been hurt they still have done and still do enough to be here)

Backstrom
Stamkos (he seems to be falling but kucherov definitely helps keep him there. I just don’t see the dominance, gamebrraking ability or consistency in past two years despite high totals which keeps him in tier 2 barely for me.)



————————



Tier 3 (arguably elite guys, up and coming guys or (need to see a bit more first) or past prime but still putting up top numbers)

Note: at times there isn’t MUCH space between these guys and tier 2 and in some cases there is some real distance.***some of these guys bounce from tier 3 and tier 2 IMO: there may be guys better then other guys in the same tier but like I said with how it works for me there can be some considerable gap even if it’s players in the same group:Tier. Continued:


Couture, Pavelski
Barzal, Getzlaf
Giroux (I know, he’s a winger now but for a lot of his career he wasn’t)
Draisaitl
Monahan
Toews

This is sort of a cut off here, this is like the lower half of this tier now

You could say this is tier 3B or 4....4 sounds low but it’s not these are still players that are tremendous and can be in the second tier either soon or have been before.

Point
Schenn
ROR
Coutourier
Hischer
Horvat
Johansen
Duchene (at times)
W. Karlsson
Keller
Trocheck
Stastny
Carter, backlund, RNH, Reinhart (when C)
——




tier 4; Borderline first line centers or top second line centers again who can be either up and coming, past their prime, or even in their prime. Guys in this group can also bounce up or down tiers, but only based on a long enough duration to dictate that.


So this isn’t s bad place to be.

I would hold all the top 3rd line-centers and most second line centers here. Or under producing first line centers either near the end or at the beginning, .....


guys like J Staal, Lars Eller, Thornton, Tyler Johnson, Dylan Larkin,Would be The top probably then here is Nolan Patrick, Faksa, Koivu, Casey Mittkestadt, even Pettersen because he can jump up and it’s only been five games. See mittlestadt after 6 games. Atheniseau, bozak, brassard, tkachucks, Tierney, Pageau, Henrique, Stepan, Anisimov, spezza, Kerfoot/Jost, Turris, Namestnikov , Kotkaniemi?

This isn’t the last tier

I really like he looks of some prospects like comtois (not sure if he’s a center)!lundestron and steel for the ducks. Up and comers (some who have played a couple times already) like Robert Thomas, Kyrou, Andersson, Rubstoc, Rasmussen, Roslovic etc.


I didn’t go through every team so I’m forgetting some but this was just a “top of my head” fun thing I thought to do.

Finally there would be a 5th and 6th tiers with the likes of McCann, Kempe, DAnault Nelson, Ryan, ....and further down probably a 7th which would be including the likes of Girgensens and drouin or something,

Lol I’m joking at the end, or am I?...

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Hit 100 points, win an award that the only competition isn’t rookies, lead your team to a playoff round victory...

You forgot hit 30 assists.

 

[nabob]

Literally no one is agreeing with you.

The stats agree with me.

 

[nabob]

He dominated possession in the Caps series

I’m guessing you don’t watch hockey. That’s okay. Shoot me a pm and I got links to help you get started on analytics.

No he really didn’t. He had 1 shot in the first two games. That’s really dominant

 

[nabob]

I also don't think you know what cherry picking or bias means.

I was done till i saw you post in a condescending manner. When you don't know what consistency means you're not allowed to do that.

You don’t know what cherry picking stats to suit your own bias means. That exactly what you did. And you clearly have a bias. I am not a fan of either team.

Stop being condescending.

 

[nabob]

No. No one is in mcdavids tier but if Mack keeps this up he is firmly in the lead of the second one with Matthews and such.


I will get to what and who I believe the tiers presently are below but first.....

As I said before eichel is absolutely destroying his production at the same age so why should Mackinnon be with mcdavid when eichel even outscored Mack in just his second season and missed two months. Again Mack has rantanen and landeskog and is a beauty. But eichel has none of that and has essentially gone point per game the last theee years. 127 in his last 134. ThAts battling long term injury as well. No one his line has even had over 50 pts. My point is since all that is true and Eichels not in macks tier why should he be?

I get that last season Mackinnon went nuts like Hall did but Mackinnon never produced like this until rantanen got there (not suggesting he’s the reason but he’s part of it) and had years and years of mediocrity (38 in 68, 52 and 53 back to back in 82 games) Eichels never had numbers that low in any season no matter how much time he’s missed (which is a lot, quarter season in 2 of his first 3 years) anyway.....

The way I see it:


Until proven otherwise (another season of dominance by Mackinnon or Matthews) could change it a bit but to me right now:
amongst centers:


Tier 1-!The Best)

McDavid

Crosby/Malkin (Sid is a slow starter he always turns it on and based off all his recent success how is he not here? If oens win the cup this year that’s 3/4 a dynasty and imagine if Sid gets his third smythe in four years.)


———

Tier 2 (elite players)

Kopitar
Bergeron
Matthews
Tavares,Mackinnon, Eichel, Barkov, Kuznetsov
Seguin
Scheifele (don’t care about slow stars for him or Kopitar even though he’s been hurt they still have done and still do enough to be here)

Backstrom
Stamkos (he seems to be falling but kucherov definitely helps keep him there. I just don’t see the dominance, gamebrraking ability or consistency in past two years despite high totals which keeps him in tier 2 barely for me.)



————————



Tier 3 (arguably elite guys, up and coming guys or (need to see a bit more first) or past prime but still putting up top numbers)

Note: at times there isn’t MUCH space between these guys and tier 2 and in some cases there is some real distance.***some of these guys bounce from tier 3 and tier 2 IMO: there may be guys better then other guys in the same tier but like I said with how it works for me there can be some considerable gap even if it’s players in the same group:Tier. Continued:


Couture, Pavelski
Barzal, Getzlaf
Giroux (I know, he’s a winger now but for a lot of his career he wasn’t)
Draisaitl
Monahan
Toews

This is sort of a cut off here, this is like the lower half of this tier now

You could say this is tier 3B or 4....4 sounds low but it’s not these are still players that are tremendous and can be in the second tier either soon or have been before.

Point
Schenn
ROR
Coutourier
Hischer
Horvat
Johansen
Duchene (at times)
W. Karlsson
Keller
Trocheck
Stastny
Carter, backlund, RNH, Reinhart (when C)
——




tier 4; Borderline first line centers or top second line centers again who can be either up and coming, past their prime, or even in their prime. Guys in this group can also bounce up or down tiers, but only based on a long enough duration to dictate that.


So this isn’t s bad place to be.

I would hold all the top 3rd line-centers and most second line centers here. Or under producing first line centers either near the end or at the beginning, .....


guys like J Staal, Lars Eller, Thornton, Tyler Johnson, Dylan Larkin,Would be The top probably then here is Nolan Patrick, Faksa, Koivu, Casey Mittkestadt, even Pettersen because he can jump up and it’s only been five games. See mittlestadt after 6 games. Atheniseau, bozak, brassard, tkachucks, Tierney, Pageau, Henrique, Stepan, Anisimov, spezza, Kerfoot/Jost, Turris, Namestnikov , Kotkaniemi?

This isn’t the last tier

I really like he looks of some prospects like comtois (not sure if he’s a center)!lundestron and steel for the ducks. Up and comers (some who have played a couple times already) like Robert Thomas, Kyrou, Andersson, Rubstoc, Rasmussen, Roslovic etc.


I didn’t go through every team so I’m forgetting some but this was just a “top of my head” fun thing I thought to do.

Finally there would be a 5th and 6th tiers with the likes of McCann, Kempe, DAnault Nelson, Ryan, ....and further down probably a 7th which would be including the likes of Girgensens and drouin or something,

Lol I’m joking at the end, or am I?...

/thread.

Missed Hall BTW.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Hit 100 points, win an award that the only competition isn’t rookies, lead your team to a playoff round victory...

...and become enough of a leader to get a letter on your jersey.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Not everyone Agrees with your biased Leaf hating posts.

That is all. Take care.

There is absolutely NOTHING to suggest Matthews is on Mcdavidslevel. Nothing statistically. Nothing on the ice.


I love when they bring up how the oilers missed the playoffs and the leafs made it to the first round as if that’s a victory for Matthews (who did absolutely nothing and cost them the series) blame gardiner all you want but if Matthews scored more then once in those 7 huge games that easily could of been the difference. A star player if forward is on the ice 1/3rd of every game. 20/60. So you literally have to have a team win with you as 2/3rds are played with Your star sitting on the bench. That’s why the oilers missed, certainly not because of the only guy who runs the ship. I know that situation all too well in buffalo but of course it’s Jacks fault too.

I’m not denying Matthews isn’t at the top of
The second tier (look at my tier post last page for proof) but you don’t have to have the best player in the game. You have an elite one and a tremendous team. Shouldn’t that be enough?



You know what the worst thing about all this is?

Leaf fans got (some leaf fans of course) were hypnotized and it was a perfect storm of events or a perfect chain reaction that has forced this delusional outlook.

It’s a combination of all these things happening at the same time and when you put them together, their irrational talent projections actually make sense. As in why they think how they do. It’s really simple.

However in order to understand them you must think like them.

-years of frustration haven’t won a series since 04

-going to games with trash bags on their heads and longing for a competitive team

-seeing the next one mcdavid just the year before and thinking what if? For the next big guy.

-winning the draft lottery getting the next star and going crazy about it. Hoping that maybe, just maybe...” That’s what you need to make it into the playoffs?” They didn’t know if mcdavid would of got Edmonton there at the time due to his injury so now they think....maybe? They know they have some good players like marner on the way (of course they didn’t know how good he would be but that’s beside the point) I still think he’s third best in that draft just ahead of Barzal rantanen and provorov btw.

-so they have Matthews and what does he do? If he looked good in Ottawa that would be enough promise or just got a point. Yeah he had other plans. Scoring v4 goals in his first game. Ending up with 40 and the promise for many more because now they have their superstar.

-especially since they were longing for that top player they could connect with since sundin. Auston is North American whether that makes him easier to relate with I don’t know but he is sure loved like no other...

But the biggest reason? Is making the playoffs in that rookie year after not only being last in the east, being last in the league. Bingo. That fight there caused this reaction especially when you consider the history and points I made above.

I think this made leaf fans think well that’s all you need is a “generational” Center and you can make the playoffs!

This distorted way of thinking is of corse problematic because it’s really not at all that simple. However it’s what likely makes them think Eichel is trash (or at least not close to his level) and since McDavid missed in 18’ and the leafs made it again.....a lot figure that’s a victory for us! It must be Matthews m! who they’ve said a countless number of times that he “Dragged them to the playoffs.” But it stops there. Not giving a thought to the fact they had an excellent coach and a starting goalie for once. All arrived in the same year. Something which buffalo and Edmonton never have had during this time outside the one season for Talbot and he may bounce back yet but continuing with this, That and adding other rookies like Marner and Nylander in the same year Matthews “dragged them to the playoffs”

You’d think depth like that would help?
I mean I’ve heard Them Say marner was better then eichel and as crafty and offensively talented as Mitchell is, on his best day couldn’t lace jacks skates. But it’s paradoxical because how did Matthews drag them to the playoffs if they added a guy who’s better then Eichel as well as a guy who’s still holding out for a lucrative, lengthy contract? Should that not assist young Auston in his quest to drag the last place team out of the gutter? So it’s all this and the perception formed from the media being in Toronto and the almighty dollar, Rogers craves leaf topics and I think their drunk. They’re too high right now with power and when that happens to people they get overconfident when their drunk with success their winning tolerance is low like a frigid 90 pound college girl with her first two coolers. Tolerance low and drunk with power leads to impulsive, questionable and distorted ways of thinking.

That is the order and that is the full reason why all this is happening. A perfect storm.

Anyway.....I believe all those things have uktimately lead to What we currently see. Of course a hot start like they’ve had again this year doesen’t hurt that mindset either!


Obviously not ALL Leaf fans think like this but a good portion who believe this rogers forced “debate” and rip on the other two centers who “don’t even make the playoffffs” do. For all of the reasons above. At least with that mental clarity you can if nothing else understand where it’s all coming from.

I gain solace from that.

 

[hockeeyyy]

No he really didn’t. He had 1 shot in the first two games. That’s really dominant

You clearly didn’t read what you wrote. Shots on net are one third of the possession measures. You said he got dominated on puck possession. He finished at 57-58% possession in that series.

 

[nabob]

You clearly didn’t read what you wrote. Shots on net are one third of the possession measures. You said he got dominated on puck possession. He finished at 57-58% possession in that series.

You clearly didn’t read what I wrote.

 

[AvsFan29]

MacKinnon is decent

 

[Ozz]

Emineminem

 

[snipes]

Lets liveblog the Leafs game. If Matthews doesn't get a point there will be widespread panic.

Alas it happened