Is Martin enough to get this D to league average?

[SnowblindNYR]

Jacque Martin, dude.

He might have been kidding but he's not that type.

 

[Mikos87]

This is a very similar situation to 2010-11. Back that year, Staal and Girardi were known, Emminger was a scapegoat before putting on a Rangers jersey, Roszival was viewed as redundant, and no one knew McD would be ready and Sauer could surprise.

This year, the entire right side is known, Lindgren is good, Johnson is essentially Emminger, and the young kids are the unknown. It only takes one of Reunnenan/K. Miller/Robertson to make the team and it changes the entire dynamic. Two make the team and they'll be fine.

The only difference is the forwards were really good PKers in the Torts and AV years, but last year they were the drizzling shits.

I thought they did a good job of addressing the needs you outlined. I wholeheartedly agree. This roster is ripe with opportunity for young hungry players who want to start cashing in on their hockey careers. Very much similar to 2011, by the end of that season you started seeing a team that established an identity.

The Rangers signed one of the better 4th liners out there in Rooney, but if you have a guy like Howden who embraces being a good 4th liner and PK, and if Fil steps up as a PKer, I think you are headed in the right direction. Can Lemmie PK is another question, cause if he does, he's going to get paid. Smith was bad. He was the worst player on the roster by a mile last year, and to me he should be bound on the taxi squad. Johnson was marginally better than Staal last year, and much better on the PK.

The biggest question mark is that top 4 LD. If that is filled at 5v5, and Johnson is a primary PKer, the defense gets better. But overall I think they need to tighten up the system more in their own zone. The Rangers got better through the course of the year, and I though the postdeadline defense, even with Smith was a marked improvement, especially going up against high powered teams.

The Rangers were very good in the neutral zone, and a very good team on counter-transitions. Once teams started using arial lobs to get past that pressure, the Rangers struggled at times. But these are addressable. Tony got beat at the line, and off the rush. He's not a afraid of contact, so getting him to be more physical, use his feet to defend more, and reach less would help.

It will be interesting to see what they do. Some structural changes to play like contending teams are definitely needed like managing line-changes and match-ups more effectively. They asked a lot out of guys last year to shelter the kids, and this year I think you want to see the kids step up and take on more important roles.

 

[JohnC]

Smith-Trouba
Lindgren-Fox
Johnson-Deangelo

That left side makes me want to nail gun my eyes out. Trouba is a #3 paid to be a #1. Deangelo is...not the best at playing defense.

A regression from Fox and this team is toast in the goals against column. Igor will need to be prime Hank levels to keep them afloat IMO.

 

[B17 Apricots]

I just keep thinking/hoping Smith can turn it around, if he can get his head out of the sand, lose 21 pounds, and stay out of the box. He still has a decent tool box to play decent defense when he's not being a tool.

Smith is absolutely my little dark horse coming in. If he can get back to the player he was that got him traded here he'll be a huge part of stablizing the D pairs. The idea of Smith and Trouba together... two big, mean f***s together is something I wanna see

 

[aufheben]

Martin isn't going to magically fix what Ruff couldn't. You can polish a turd, it's still a turd. The best coach in the world can't fix a defense that has Jack Johnson and Brendan Smith on it full-time

Its not magic, they’re two coaches with polar opposite styles.

Dallas Stars

2016-17 – Lindy Ruff
3847 shots against
260 goals against

2017-18 – Ken Hitchcock
3578 shots against
222 goals against

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Our d isn't ready yet, if Martin can help the pk and help with structure for when we have the right players in place then its a win, and yes i believe he can do all that. Also, i believe he's been around long enough to know if J.J has something that can help this team so im willing to give Johnson the benefit of the doubt until he proves Martin wrong. Our division is gonna tank us, i think in a regular year we might make playoffs but this set up isn't helpful to us.

 

[bobbop]

I think league average D with this offense we'll be a pretty damn good team. Wonder if you guys think he's enough to have us jump in that range.

Perhaps. Look what Trotz did with the Islanders. It will be greatly dependent on the forwards though. If they keep playing matador defense, it won’t happen. Team defense is an 18 man effort.

 

[bobbop]

Smith is absolutely my little dark horse coming in. If he can get back to the player he was that got him traded here he'll be a huge part of stablizing the D pairs. The idea of Smith and Trouba together... two big, mean f***s together is something I wanna see

Let’s not get too excited here. Smith was a career 4-5 in Detroit before he came here.

 

[SA16]

Perhaps. Look what Trotz did with the Islanders. It will be greatly dependent on the forwards though. If they keep playing matador defense, it won’t happen. Team defense is an 18 man effort.

If our forwards play like matadors defenisvely I think we’ll be in good shape.

 

[B17 Apricots]

Let’s not get too excited here. Smith was a career 4-5 in Detroit before he came here.

Smith played 18 minutes a night in DET. By no means was he some great defenseman but hes a gritty dude that could fit the Kevin Klein mold as a useful guy who might not be the ideal middle pairing player but serviceable enough

 

[LionsHeart]

There’s just not enough talent, especially on that left side.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

This is a great f***ing thread Snow. Honestly.

who knows. When they hired JM I was happy. Felt he had more of a track record and a better system than Ruff, but I won’t lie that I was disappointed that he vouched for Jack Johnson.

However, I’m interested to see if there will be any changes to how to the Rangers D are deployed throughout the game, what pairings will get the most trust and if any of the youngsters will force their way into the lineup.

It will be interesting to see how not only the Rangers but all NHL teams handle their young and upcoming defenseman considering the taxi squad/AHL situation.

I’d love to see a kid like Miller get some minutes and I believe he will but I think the traditional methodology of having him up and playing a few games then practicing and watching from the box may not be as feasible or smart considering the covid regulations. So that may force the Rangers hand into playing the vets more... and God help us if they trust Johnson over more deserving kids.

A lot of that I guess will depend on the guidance and direction of Martin, so it will be fun to watch what happens in a short season.

Personally, the way I see it - This shortened season with almost playoff like series taking place week to week... you couldn’t ask for a better learning tool for a team loaded with young talent. Sink or swim I think this season will be looked upon as a valuable learning period for what will become the core of this team. So I’m hoping that they recognize that as long as players like Miller are ready to take some minutes.

I wouldn’t be shy about throwing them in the fire considering it’s a bit of a “throw away year”.

 

[True Blue]

I wouldn’t be shy about throwing them in the fire considering it’s a bit of a “throw away year”.

I would say it is still a building year, but not a throw away one. The team is expected to compete for the playoffs. Maybe not get in, but to compete for them.

Martin certainly can only help. But a starting 6 that has Johnson, Smith and a defensively challenged DeAngelo is starting with one hand tied behind their back. Now things can go well. Martin brings structure, Trouba plays well, Fox and Lindgren continue to take steps forward and Martin gets through to DeAngelo and his defensive play improves. Smith probably starts as Trouba's partner, so that is troubling as even if he reverts to his level of a few years ago, that is still not top pair play. Johnson is penciled in to start, but I doubt anyone is married to that idea. His contract is not so big that he cannot be sat or sent to Hartford. But for that to happen, one of the kids has to come in and outplay him.

 

[Fitzy]

Only the Blues Brothers are capable of turning goat piss into gasoline.

Gotta give it a year or two to develop. Let the young guys get better.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

It may actually be more important how JM works with the young forwards, getting them to buy into a sound defensive system and carving out roles for them when they don’t have the puck.

We all know the defense has its issues, so it will take a team approach to consistently win games.

You need a good teacher to help balance the defensive focus of a young forward’s game while not overwhelming them. Thinking too much leads to what we saw from Kakko last season,

 

[duhmetreE]

I think structure and simplicity will help greatly. The Islanders flipped the switched over night. Went from worst to first in GAA. I dont expect to be at the top, there's no reason we can't become 'middle of the pack'

IF Shesterkin can stay healthy, that'd help a lot.

 

[will1066]

To answer the OP's question,

Yes, if he wears his glasses
No, if he doesn't wear his glasses

 

[Vitto79]

This year is a start on D but they need a LD pick up next year after expansion and a kid to step up

 

[TominNC]

It's going to take time and patience. Nothing will make the old fill ins much better. Only time will allow the plethora of young D-men in the system get the experience to reach league average and above. Wanting, wishing and complaining won't speed up the process.

 

[Machinehead]

If he didn't actively seek out Johnson, I'd be more encouraged.

It indicates to me that this is just another iteration of the "getting outshot is actually rad" ideology.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

If he didn't actively seek out Johnson, I'd be more encouraged.

It indicates to me that this is just another iteration of the "getting outshot is actually rad" ideology.

Didn't the Penguins play decent defense regardless?

 

[Quinnisinoverhishead]

Trouba needs to live up to that contract. Then our defence will be league average. If he plays like he did last year, we are in big trouble.

 

[Machinehead]

Didn't the Penguins play decent defense regardless?

Yes but they also have two centers who have the puck literally always

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Didn't the Penguins play decent defense regardless?

It helps when you have a generational center and a borderline generational center possessing the puck for you half the time

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It helps when you have a generational center and a borderline generational center possessing the puck for you half the time

You and @Machinehead said the same thing but they haven't always had great D with those 2. Am I wrong?